What do you expect from DLC2?

[Chezza]

I'm glad it isn't a multiverse, but I suppose it's possible to still have more than one universe that has humanity and the UAC. Maybe a few, maybe dozens. But if Doom 1 to 3 + 64 isn't directly connected to Eternal / 2016 (which makes sense, earth and UAC being invaded multiple times and never learning isn't logical) then it raises questions on how the Doom Slayer had all the marines gear. He has to be the same guy hopping through other dimensions yeah? So the Multiverse theory makes sense, which also can justify the evolution of Demons per game, since Hell is the only consistent dimension connected to all dimensions.

 

I suppose it explains why the Hell Knights design are similar within a few clearly different timelines / worlds.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Chezza

[chemo]

I believe it was confirmed somewhere that designs like the 2016 Mancubus still exist in this universe as a different species.

[igg]

8 hours ago, Chezza said:

I'm glad it isn't a multiverse, but I suppose it's possible to still have more than one universe that has humanity and the UAC. Maybe a few, maybe dozens. But if Doom 1 to 3 + 64 isn't directly connected to Eternal / 2016

It is a multiverse, just not in the Arrowverse or Spiderverse style. Earth exists in multiple dimensions, I think the Slayer comes from the 7th dimension (Earth in Doom 1 - 64) and entered the dimension of Argent D'Nur (this includes Eternals Earth as well) through Hell, which itself covers multiple dimensions. 

[Vic Vos]

Meathook platforming would be great - I've only recently found out that it's great for maneuvering when doing a meathook swing.

Now if only base running speed would've been faster...

[AtimZarr1]

With DLC 2, Hugo confirmed they will be re-balancing The Holt's Slayer Gate (again), but this time to make it easier.

 

 

---

 

23 hours ago, whatup876 said:

i wonder what are the justifications for the different art directions in both the demons (gameplay included) and the levels.

 

Just look at the variety of landscapes and creatures on Earth - from the Sahara to the Himalayas. A classification like "cat" is comprised of dozens of species alone. My personal theory is that Hell is unfathomably vast and infinite, filled with countless demon classifications and species. Each Doom game's interpretation of Hell is simply a glimpse into another corner of the Dark Realm, whether it be Classic Doom's castles and flesh pits, Doom 3's fiery torture chambers, or Doom 2016's assimilated worlds, or Doom Eternal's soul factories - each ruled by a demon lord (Icon of Sin, Mother Demon, Maledict, Aranae Imperatrix, etc.) and all part of the same one infinite dimension.

 

---

 

15 hours ago, chemo said:

I believe it was confirmed somewhere that designs like the 2016 Mancubus still exist in this universe as a different species.

 

I think there was a QuakeCon interview with Hugo a few years ago where he explained that every version of the Cyberdemon descend from the Cyberdemon family, so this would likely extend to the other demons like the Mancubus. In fact, Doom Eternal's Mancubus Codex entry brings this up:

 

"The Mancubus, hulking behemoth of the demon world, bears notable difference from those of its kind first encountered by the UAC expedition team on Mars. Unlike its brethren which wore a naturally occurring armored carapace, this variation shows clear signs of pre-existing man-made modifications."

[Hunting4r2d2]

2 hours ago, AtimZarr1 said:

Just look at the variety of landscapes and creatures on Earth - from the Sahara to the Himalayas. A classification like "cat" is comprised of dozens of species alone. My personal theory is that Hell is unfathomably vast and infinite, filled with countless demon classifications and species. Each Doom game's interpretation of Hell is simply a glimpse into another corner of the Dark Realm, whether it be Classic Doom's castles and flesh pits, Doom 3's fiery torture chambers, or Doom 2016's assimilated worlds, or Doom Eternal's soul factories - each ruled by a demon lord (Icon of Sin, Mother Demon, Maledict, Aranae Imperatrix, etc.) and all part of the same one infinite dimension.

This is essentially my belief as well.

 

Also, in one of the videos, Hugo talks about a new enemy in the upcoming DLC, referring to him as "the big guy." It's likely that this will be another new superheavy demon, perhaps another species of Cyberdemon?

[Captain Keen]

6 hours ago, Hunting4r2d2 said:

This is essentially my belief as well.

 

Also, in one of the videos, Hugo talks about a new enemy in the upcoming DLC, referring to him as "the big guy." It's likely that this will be another new superheavy demon, perhaps another species of Cyberdemon?

 

I could be *completely* wrong on this, but I feel like from what's been said that we're gonna get to fight Satan himself, or some variant of the classic Satan entity. Perhaps the evil Doomslayer will morph into him? I'm not sure.

 

I think it would be cool if there's a boss battle with the evil Doomslayer where he has Unreal Tournament type of AI, meaning he plays like a player and jumps around and hides and fights you like a human deathmatch opponent.

 

Then once you beat him, you get to fight Satan.

 

I wasn't a huge fan of DLC #1 (liked it didn't love it) but I have high hopes for #2.

[igg]

1 hour ago, Captain Keen said:

I think it would be cool if there's a boss battle with the evil Doomslayer where he has Unreal Tournament type of AI, meaning he plays like a player and jumps around and hides and fights you like a human deathmatch opponent.

 

Then once you beat him, you get to fight Satan.

Isn't the evil Doomslayer supposed to be the dark lord? I think the ending implies so.

 

The only question is whether the evil Doomslayer is also Davoth or just the dark lord of the 4th age. The codex entries and place of his life sphere make him look like Davoth, but in Doom 2016 the dark lord is linked to the 4th age, which would mean he isn't Davoth.

[AtimZarr1]

Some new DLC 2 info from the Mars Core livestream:

 

New enemy: The Screecher

• An enemy you don't want to kill
• If you burst it, it lets out an AoE that buffs all nearby demons
• Slow-moving Hell Zombie
• Used a lot in incidental encounters
• One encounter: 3x Screechers and 2x Marauders on a big platform

More new weapon hints/quotes:

• Becomes part of optimal gameplay, especially against Heavies and Super Heavies (even Marauders if you are skilled enough)
• Be able to kill a Marauder in one shot
• Once used to the new weapon, you won't be able to play without it. It creates a new meta

There was a moment when Hugo gave a hint from a supposed list of hints/reveals for DLC 2 and said "It begins with an S" which many people in chat thought was referring to the new weapon, but it's very likely to be referring to The Screecher instead. I've linked to the timestamp for those interested.

 

DLC 2 details:

• Not going to change Ice Bomb
• Adding more time to the Blood Maykr window
• Arachnotron behavior changes that will ease low-level play, but not affect top-level play
• DLC 2 pacing will be less intense than DLC 1 (says DLC 1 may have been too packed)
• Centered "race-car" HUD will be customizable
• New option: weapon wheel open delay (can be tuned to open later or earlier if you press the key)

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by AtimZarr1

[Hunting4r2d2]

13 minutes ago, AtimZarr1 said:

Some new DLC 2 info from the Mars Core livestream:

 

New enemy: The Screecher

• An enemy you don't want to kill
• If you burst it, it lets out an AoE that buffs all nearby demons
• Slow-moving Hell Zombie
• Used a lot in incidental encounters
• One encounter: 3x Screechers and 2x Marauders on a big platform

More new weapon hints/quotes:

• Becomes part of optimal gameplay, especially against Heavies and Super Heavies (even Marauders if you are skilled enough)
• Be able to kill a Marauder in one shot
• Once used to the new weapon, you won't be able to play without it. It creates a new meta

There was a moment when Hugo gave a hint from a supposed list of hints/reveals for DLC 2 and said "It begins with an S" which many people in chat thought was referring to the new weapon, but it's very likely to be referring to The Screecher instead. I've linked to the timestamp for those interested.

 

DLC 2 details:

• Not going to change Ice Bomb
• Adding more time to the Blood Maykr window
• Arachnotron behavior changes that will ease low-level play, but not affect top-level play
• DLC 2 pacing will be less intense than DLC 1 (says DLC 1 may have been too packed)
• Centered "race-car" HUD will be customizable
• New option: weapon wheel open delay (can be tuned to open later or earlier if you press the key)

 

Beat me to it.

 

Another note, Josh once mentioned a Master Level of Mars Core but didn't mention what it would contain or when it would be released.

[Captain Keen]

On 2/10/2021 at 3:52 AM, igg said:

The only question is whether the evil Doomslayer is also Davoth or just the dark lord of the 4th age. The codex entries and place of his life sphere make him look like Davoth, but in Doom 2016 the dark lord is linked to the 4th age, which would mean he isn't Davoth.

 

I'm not gonna lie to you, I have NO idea what any of that means! I've even read some of the codex entries, but a lot of it goes in one ear and out the other. I don't really play DOOM for the story, though I do love the idea of the lore (demons and outer space) and the very basic plot.

 

I would like to fight a boss that looks like Baphomet or the classic Satan design. You know, horns, hooves, that sorta thing. The Icon is sort of that, I suppose. Maybe evil Doomslayer morphs into a Baphomet type of beast for the final stage, so you aren't just fighting a red-eyed marine? I really loved the dark, Hellish imagery of the 2016 Doom and wouldn't mind seeing a return to that aesthetic.

 

The box art for SIGIL (which I know was taken from previously created artwork) was cool. I'd love to see that kind of imagery in an actual game.

 

2 hours ago, AtimZarr1 said:

DLC 2 details:

• Not going to change Ice Bomb
• Adding more time to the Blood Maykr window
• Arachnotron behavior changes that will ease low-level play, but not affect top-level play
• DLC 2 pacing will be less intense than DLC 1 (says DLC 1 may have been too packed)
• Centered "race-car" HUD will be customizable
• New option: weapon wheel open delay (can be tuned to open later or earlier if you press the key)

 

Sounds like they've listened to fan feedback. The Screecher sounds cool, too.

[thewormofautumn]

7 hours ago, AtimZarr1 said:

New enemy: The Screecher

• An enemy you don't want to kill
• If you burst it, it lets out an AoE that buffs all nearby demons
• Slow-moving Hell Zombie
• Used a lot in incidental encounters
• One encounter: 3x Screechers and 2x Marauders on a big platform

I have to be honest...I actually really want to kill the Screechers and fight against buffed enemies.

[whatup876]

The Screecher is an interesting concept, even if an alternate take on something that the Buff Totem, Spirit and Archvile are already doing.

So i hope that's the last enemy touching on the buff concept (to avoid a certain saturation) and other, newer enemies introduce new abilities to spice things up.

 

5 hours ago, Captain Keen said:

I would like to fight a boss that looks like Baphomet or the classic Satan design. You know, horns, hooves, that sorta thing. The Icon is sort of that, I suppose. Maybe evil Doomslayer morphs into a Baphomet type of beast for the final stage, so you aren't just fighting a red-eyed marine? I really loved the dark, Hellish imagery of the 2016 Doom and wouldn't mind seeing a return to that aesthetic.

 

The box art for SIGIL (which I know was taken from previously created artwork) was cool. I'd love to see that kind of imagery in an actual game.

 

I feel like Sigil and Doom Eternal could be another example of how classic Doom Hell and demons will always feel different from the new ones. (even though Sigil's art, which technically existed prior to the episode, also feel different from the classic art in some ways)

Even if "kitschy" is a word to describe these looks, it looks different from the more "established" lore and art direction the new games have.

 

If the deer creature was in a new Doom game, it would look like the 2016 Cyberdemon/Baalgar or close to it and not have some of the "decorations" it has or elements, like the puppet wires on that skeleton figure or the leaves while the goat may not have the nose ring.

Something i also tie with the "upside down crosses" you find in Nekravol and how you compare those to the less vague ones in classic Doom.

It's something that makes me worry about giving Doom a more established lore and art direction because it will always feel like a side effect of something.

 

Sigil also started as a smaller product compared to Eternal being a mainstream AAA game, so i feel like that (along with these artworks and even a text like "baphomet was only doing satan's bidding") could show a difference between how former id used to (or still) view/views Hell in Doom and how the new id does it.

 

I do think some "mystical" bosses inspired by both the goat and deer could be cool.

With some weird abilities and some unique designs, but they also seem obviosuly too apart from how the new games design their demons.

[AtimZarr1]

On February 12th, DLC 2 received an age rating classification in Australia: https://www.classification.gov.au/titles/doom-eternal-ancient-gods-part-two

 

For comparison, DLC 1 got an age rating in Australia on September 24th 2020 (26 days from release): https://www.classification.gov.au/titles/doom-eternal-ancient-gods-part-one

 

And Doom Eternal itself got an age rating in Australia on September 10th, 2019 (42 days before its intended release before the delay): https://www.classification.gov.au/titles/doom-eternal

 

So based on these trends, we can expect DLC 2 to drop somewhere between March 10th (26 days from February 12th) or March 26th (42 days from February 12th). If we take the averages, we'd get a release date of March 18th. We're unlikely to get March 10th since Hugo will still have one more livestream left for Doom Eternal (a day later). There's a decent chance DLC 2 will release on March 20th after all since that's approximately a month after February 12th, which would follow the same trends as the earlier two releases and their respective classification dates.

 

If the release date is indeed that close, then I suspect we might not get a teaser trailer this time around. Perhaps an official trailer at the end of February?

 

---

 

There have been some interesting game updates on SteamDB for Doom Eternal. However, I'm not too familiar on how these branches function. I'm linking them here since some of their recent updates seem to similarly suggest a closer release window. However, I haven't been checking these to see how often they, or specific ones, get updated: https://steamdb.info/app/782330/depots/

 

- The "DLC 2 age rating" branch was updated 12 days ago.

 

- The "denuvo" branch was updated yesterday.

 

- The "dlc-test-release" branch was updated 29 days ago. Most of the other branches after this one were updated 2 months ago or longer.

 

- There are two other branches of interest: "hammer-a" (updated 4 days ago) and "hammer-b" (updated 12 days ago). These could be referring to the new weapon but I don't know why there would be two branches - maybe different versions?

 

- There's an "int-punch-saw" branch updated 12 days ago - which might be referring to "intelligent Blood Punch / Chainsaw" (since both are currently bugged).

[thewormofautumn]

14 hours ago, AtimZarr1 said:

If we take the averages, we'd get a release date of March 18th

Oh man... I was going to take that day off work anyway for the Justice League Snyder Cut... this would be the best day ever if DLC2 came out at the same time!!!!

[whatup876]

Would it be weird of the Angel Maykrs (the one that says "welcome home great Slayer) or even the player's Maykr skin become enemies on their own?

One would be another enemy type alongside blood Maykrs and can actually leave Urdak, the other is either the Urdak equivalent of former humans or even an attempt at mimmicking humans, so they would look alien in the inside.

 

I always thought cosmetics in 2016 could have been unique enemies or even used in an horde mode, where one boss or two mimick the player and make use of cosmetics in a "randomized" fashion, so any assets and colors can be used for those type of CPU characters.

[Khaoscythe]

...just give me my Spectre Dread Knights already.

[whatup876]

Something i kinda like is when there's equivalents of different themes for something like how the Ballista is technically the Gauss Cannon of the Sentinels and all.

So that's why skins and cosmetics are kind of interesting and so is how different worlds have their versions of keys, pick ups, buttons, barrels etc so i think if we ever revisited Urdak, maybe Maykr keys could have been a thing.

Imagine if they come up with a lot of designs for things, there could have been different game modes or options, just to see them in game and outside of concept art.

 

Because of how i feel about the modern portrayal of Zombiemen/former humans/possessed soldiers, i would like to see an enemy with an abilitiy like that of the Gremlin from Quake: Scourge of Armagon.

One with an ability to steal one of the player's weapons.

It'd have to be an otherwise weak and rare enemy.

 

Also, would bouncing/reflecting/ricochet projectiles make the Unmaykr more fun to use?

[Zemini]

On 2/16/2021 at 3:20 PM, Khaoscythe said:

...just give me my Spectre Dread Knights already.

 

Why?  I always felt like spectre variants were just filler enemies to create difficulty.  One spectre enemy is enough.  Even in classic Doom I never found it fun or immersive shooting at a fuzzy blob.  I would rather see more interesting variants that have different weakness and abilities.

[Khaoscythe]

4 hours ago, Zemini said:

 ...Even in classic Doom I never found it fun...

 

This isn't "classic Doom" though... and having more spectre variants (or even demons with other abilities) would actually open up possibilities in fights throughout the game. It's already being done with the Spirit mechanic as well as buffs via Totem/AV.

 

 

...and besides I'm pretty sure that, just like the Whiplash, the Dread Knight is fed up with being deleted by Lock-On rockets and the sort.

[whatup876]

Being specter related enemies, i thought Spectres could have had new abilities.

Like going through the player, having some attacks go through them (like Heretic's "ghost" enemies) or even do the Hell-Forged thing where they attack health without touching armor.

 

Because Hellknights in the new games are not just smaller Barons anymore, at least.

Otherwise, Spectres as a concept could fit Doom 3 more, honestly.

They seem like they have some horror related potential that was never actually explored.

[whatup876]

Apparently, there were concepts of Maykr keys besides the Empyrean ones for the Slayer gates/Unmaykr.

I like H and I more.

https://colingeller.artstation.com/projects/D52NDE

[Zemini]

On 2/18/2021 at 2:24 PM, Khaoscythe said:

 

This isn't "classic Doom" though... and having more spectre variants (or even demons with other abilities) would actually open up possibilities in fights throughout the game. It's already being done with the Spirit mechanic as well as buffs via Totem/AV.

 

 

...and besides I'm pretty sure that, just like the Whiplash, the Dread Knight is fed up with being deleted by Lock-On rockets and the sort.

 

Still doesn't change the fact that it isn't fun killing partially invisible blobs.  It wasn't fun in Classic and it isn't fun in the new Doom games.  Least interesting demon across the entire franchise imo

[Chezza]

I feel spectres haven't been used correctly. We need a dark and claustrophobic segment that's full of spectres and pinkies stalking around and charging in narrow paths towards you.

 

I'm imagining a underground sewer like section with lots of pillars, where the player doesn't feel comfortable sitting tight in any one spot. Add in a few pipes to jump over them, otherwise the player needs to use blood punch, ice bomb or double jump combat.

[AtimZarr1]

Sentinel Prime / Taras Nabad livestream notes

 

---

 

Escalation Encounters

* Gore Nest encounters for each level

* The first (time?) will be accessible to everyone. The second will be a greater challenge

* I presume this means it's a repeatable encounter that becomes harder each time.

* Considered some of the hardest moments in DLC 2.

 

Lore

* The Fortress of Doom now has the only power source of Hell (on Earth). Hints at a consequence for this.

* The Divinity Machine will play a part in DLC 2. The Dark Lord has the same symbol as the Divinity Machine does (same spot - backside of body).

 

Future Things

* Next week will talk about a new AI

* Will talk about the new weapon "pretty soon". Will be the star of the DLC.

 

Other

* No plan to bring Support Runes to the main campaign

* Throne room on Taras Nabad was originally going to have a fight. Wasn't a good layout though.

 

"Not everyone is going to be ZeroMaster" - Hugo Martin

Edited February 26, 2021 by AtimZarr1

[whatup876]

With the existence of diving suits (and Doom 3's oxygen system) i wonder if astronauts suits in a space level sound crazy enough.

I also remember that the explosive "barrels" in the Cultist base where spheres with physics, making me wonder if ball related physics could have been used for puzzles or combat situations. (soccer in Doom)

 

I also thought the symbol in the divinity machine was way too high up to fit the Dark Lord's back unless i misremembered both.

 

I wonder if the EE Gore Nests will have a unique design.

[AtimZarr1]

Nekravol Parts I and II Notes

 

New demon - Stone Imp

* Imp that is covered in stone.

* Resistant to weapons (but still killable; "tougher than a Prowler").

* Comes in herds.

* Kill instantly with new weapon or "wreck them" with the Full Auto mod (drops Shotgun ammo on death; I don't know if he's referring to Stone Imps or the Mastery).

* "Sonic The Hedgehog" style of attack (not sure if he's referring to the Stone Imp or its fireball).

 

Lore

* The wretch fashioned the Slayer's armor back in Argent D'Nur. His identity has not been covered (yet).

* No explanation for the gold skull in Taras Nabad.

* When a person is killed by a demon, they are reborn in Hell (interestingly fits with the E1M8 ending theory).

* In regards to whether Doom 3 is part of the new canon/universe, Hugo replied yes but then quickly added that Doom 2016 is a celebration of all Doom games (mentioning the 2016 Hell Knight design).

 

Other

* Nekravol split into two levels because it was too large.

 

Future Things

* May do DLC livestreams after next week (next week is Urdak + Final Sin). There could be a break in between.

* One more AI to be covered next week.

* In regards to "why no Chaingunner?", Hugo replied "just because - we will talk about that later".

* Hugo read an unread question and said they'll discuss that next week.

 

"Me > ZeroMaster" - Hugo Martin

 

---

 

Random note: isn't there a Stone Imp in one of the Classic Doom randomizer mods?

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by AtimZarr1

[Kristian Nebula]

8 hours ago, AtimZarr1 said:

 

Random note: isn't there a Stone Imp in one of the Classic Doom randomizer mods?

 

 

Really looking forward to the conclusion of the series now!

 

There is a stone imp at www.realm667.com monster repository too.

https://www.realm667.com/index.php/en/beastiary-mainmenu-136-69621/doom-style-mainmenu-105-73113?start=150

[igg]

9 hours ago, AtimZarr1 said:

Lore

* The wretch fashioned the Slayer's armor back in Argent D'Nur. His identity has not been covered (yet).

Without reading recent spoilers I assume the wretch and the Crucible (Doom Fortress energy source) will be quite important in TAG 2. Maybe the mission targets are 1) get new armor, 2) get new super weapon, 3) get hell energy (Crucible) to equip the Slayer for the final fight against the dark lord. 

[whatup876]

Stone Imp does sound like a very basic Realm667 concept (like the Fire Baron) and it's either id taking inspiration from mods or an accident, because Doom is that series where anything that could/would/should have happen was already made by the fanbase.

So expanding the series officially is that much of a challenge unless id would think of collaborating with fans for some projects.

I do hope the Stone Imp also had some unique attacks instead of the main difference being an obligatory use of a certain weapon.

I didn't mind the Spirit being microwave beam bait because his role was technically unique.

Unless the Sonic bit refers to him jumping and rolling around.

 

2016 being a celebration of the series isn't unbelievable but that and Eternal still are essentially their own products with their own new ideas and contents.

Might sound like i'm about to overhype MetaDoom but that mod sort of did the concept a bit too literal and went as far as with easter eggs and obscure media/history too.

Even in 3 is canon, i wonder how the art style differnces of the demons even play.

Because i know the new Hellknight is inspired by its 3 portrayal but a lot of demons in 3 felt like they wanted to be weird for the sake of it.

A contrast to 2016 and Eternal having a theme of boney anatomy and "comic book" style proportions.

 

I also don't blame them if they just cut off the chaingunner.