Most difficult classic level to pistol-start and get 100% in all three stats on UV+?

[johnboy3434]

So, pretend you are assigned a random level. On this level, you play on Ultra-Violence+ (in non-Unity ports, that means Ultra-Violence difficulty using the -fast parameter and faking a multiplayer session) or Watch Me Die if playing Doom 64, you pistol-start, and you must finish the level with 100% kills, 100% items, and 100% secrets (adjusting for bugs that may prevent you from getting exactly 100%), and you must do it in one run without saving or dying. Which level from the 185 "classic" Doom maps would you dread getting the most?

 

The 185 maps include Doom plus "Thy Flesh Consumed", Doom II plus "The Master Levels", Final Doom, and Doom 64. I personally consider later expansions like "No Rest for the Living", "The Lost Levels", and the retroactively-official add-ons for the Unity ports to be "pseudo-classic" levels.

 

As for me, the idea of pistol-starting "Perfect Hatred" makes me feel tired. So many goddamn Barons.

Edited February 1, 2021 by johnboy3434

[Rytrik]

4 hours ago, johnboy3434 said:

As for me, the idea of pistol-starting "Perfect Hatred" makes me feel tired. So many goddamn Barons.

 

Ironically, I have a save game dedicated to Perfect Hatred... 

[Diabolución]

I assume respawning after being killed is not allowed in pre-Unity ports, either. Deathless run or bust!

 

What about Heck? Ten extra arch-viles, four extra mancubi, four extra pain elementals, six extra cyberdemons... and no extra ammo whatsoever.

 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/MAP28:_Heck_(TNT:_Evilution)#Things

[johnboy3434]

8 minutes ago, Diabolución said:

I assume respawning after being killed is not allowed in pre-Unity ports, either. Deathless run or bust!

 

Forgot to specify that. Edited now. Thanks.

 

EDIT: You know, as cliché as the answer is, "Go 2 It" might be really, really bad. You get one extra megasphere and 42 extra energy cell packs in order to deal with 22 extra Cyberdemons. The extra ammo given amounts to 105 rounds for the BFG, so I guess the implication is to just spam it until you win.

Edited January 30, 2021 by johnboy3434

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

Heck from tnt:Evilution, it's way too hard with the multiplayer stuff

[Andromeda]

 

Good luck soldier...

[Shepardus]

TNT MAP28 (Heck) is the worst that I've seen personally. As @Diabolución noted, it's got a bunch of extra arch-viles and cyberdemons, but what's worse is where those extra enemies are placed. This map starts on a platform with four narrow walkways extending from it. Each of these walkways has an arch-vile and a mancubus on it, which means that upon spawning you'll immediately be targeted by four arch-viles with no cover. If you try to run past an arch-vile, the mancubus will block your way. If you try to jump into the pits, well, you'll find out where they put all the extra cyberdemons (there's a cyberdemon and a pain elemental in each pit). I once managed to survive for a few seconds by standing mostly still, and every mancubus hit every arch-vile, causing the arch-viles to target the mancubi instead of me. I still died to the revenant missiles anyway. I haven't checked most of TNT's maps so I'm unsure if there's anything even more ridiculous, but it's hard to imagine it getting much worse than that.

 

I recently played through all of Plutonia with -solo-net (so UV+ without fast monsters) for the DWmegawad Club, and MAP22 (named Impossible Mission, appropriately enough) is by far the worst in that wad. It's the only one I wasn't able to complete in a single segment. This is entirely due to the blue key room, which features not only two cyberdemons as you can see in the thumbnail of the video @Andromeda linked, but also six arch-viles, one hidden in each nukage fall. It's possible to kill three of the arch-viles from outside the room, but that still leaves you with three arch-viles and two cyberdemons in a room with no cover (the pillars don't block projectiles or vision). It's still possible to get through and even max the map, but the only way I've seen involves getting very lucky with infighting. Here's a TAS of the map with -solo-net and fast monsters (so UV+ as you're looking for):

 

Another tough one is MAP19, which has some very inconveniently placed cyberdemons. It's definitely doable, but with fast monsters the second cyberdemon in particular is pretty much a crapshoot. MAP14 is surprisingly scary due to an effectively-placed cyberdemon and a general lack of ammo, but it's still doable. When I played it, I let an arch-vile repeatedly resurrect shotgunners so I could leech extra shotgun ammo off them. Maps 10, 22, and 25 have bad starts for UV+ due to their placing loads of hitscanners around your starting position; with fast monsters (or even without) it's pretty much up to RNG whether you survive past the first few seconds. MAP32 is actually not so bad despite the extra 22 cyberdemons; most of the additional cyberdemons are in open areas, and you get a lot of extra cell ammo, so it shouldn't be a problem for anyone with slaughtermap experience.

[GarrettChan]

Huh? I thought pre-unity port, that means UV -solonet, while at the unity-port it's changed to UV -solonet -fast.

 

But, it's not a good way to describe using this particular word as the unity port used it in a very strange way, and to be honest, I don't see the point that a port doesn't let a player to toggle "-fast", "-respawn", or "-solonet" separately instead of a batch of them, which is a very dumb design to me.

[johnboy3434]

34 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

Huh? I thought pre-unity port, that means UV -solonet, while at the unity-port it's changed to UV -solonet -fast.

 

But, it's not a good way to describe using this particular word as the unity port used it in a very strange way, and to be honest, I don't see the point that a port doesn't let a player to toggle "-fast", "-respawn", or "-solonet" separately instead of a batch of them, which is a very dumb design to me.

 

I'm sorry, but I can't quite parse what you're saying. As far as I'm aware, picking the Ultra-Violence+ difficulty on the Unity ports is equivalent to starting other source ports with -skill 4 -fast -solo-net as parameters in terms of gameplay. What am I describing poorly?

Edited February 1, 2021 by johnboy3434

[GarrettChan]

1 hour ago, johnboy3434 said:

I'm sorry, but I can't quite parse what you're saying. As far as I'm aware, picking the Ultra-Violence+ difficulty on the Unity ports is equivalent to starting other source ports with -skill 4 -fast -solo-net as parameters in terms of gameplay. What am I describing poorly?

 

I mean before this unity port, UV+ generally means UV -solonet (no -fast), but there's no decided meaning of this. It's more like a BtSX team thing as when I'm testing BtSX E2, they refer to UV -solonet as UV+. However, in the unity port, it comes with -fast. (I assume you "pre-" means "before", or maybe I just misunderstood that)

 

I'm not saying whether they should do that for the meaning of UV+, but just not letting you using these parameters separately is dumb.

Edited February 1, 2021 by GarrettChan

[Cruduxy Pegg]

To be honest I am pretty sure it has to be a map in master levels since some of them have horrible traps. But I didn't play them so.

[SiFi270]

Hell Keep from Jaguar/Playstation/etc. Doom. The only pistol start video I know of is this one by @pagb, where the amount of rushing past crowds and reliance on infighting should speak for themselves.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

I don't know that doesn't look harder than Plutonia or TNT maps. but it isn't on -fast in that video so maybe that will make it a lot harder to run past pinkies.

[jedRigozr]

Friendly bump.

 

I'm stuck on MAP08 (Tricks and Traps). Playing with Pistol Start in UV and aiming for 100% in Kills and Secrets. I'm telling you, it's hard. Small spaces = careful ammo management.