Sad news on new unreleased content

[Gez]

I doubt lawyers were involved. More like "hey John, you know that legally you're not allowed to do that? We love you man but please don't do it again".

 

Sigil wouldn't have become an official add-on if there had been actual bad blood between Romero and id.

[Doomkid]

There was even more unreleased content we haven’t seen? Good lord man, just how much goddamn work did the classic id crew do between Feb and Dec 1993?! I was sure this must have been all of it!!

 

Back when the Doom 1 alphas were released in the late 90s, even if some people at id weren’t thrilled, no one ultimately cared enough to threaten anyone or do anything, really. When Romero shared the unused Doom MIDIs, again no one gave a damn. Now the Doom franchise is enormous and, surprise surprise, the decades-long tradition of slowly releasing unused (and otherwise entirely useless) assets grinds to a halt in the wake of overly-hawkish copyright law. Nevermind the fact that none of it would ever benefit anyone but Doom modders and that the unused assets are worthless aside from that.

 

Oh well, this isn’t Romero’s fault in the slightest and he’s a goddamn hero for blessing us with the sheer amount of content that he already has. Glad most of it made its way into public arms before it got to this level. I have a strong feeling this is due to Bethesda/Microsoft owning Doom now.

 

Edit: Removed a touch of hyperbole, no need to add fuel to the fire, but reading something like this is just disheartening and kind of surprising considering it’s been going on for years and has only benefited not only the community, but id themselves (Doom Zero took advantage of a lot of unused assets shared by Romero!)

Edited February 1, 2021 by Doomkid

[NoahRules]

 This sucks man

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by NoahRules

[Doom_Dude]

I was wondering the other day if there was any Quake goodies that never got released.

 

Like DoomKid said, I too thought we had seen most if not all of it.

 

Thanks be to Romero for releasing everything he could up to this point.

 

This does suck.

 

[Wadmodder Shalton]

Maybe instead of releasing previously unseen & unreleased content, we should try to reconstruct both pre-release screenshots & maybe even the earlier sprites of the Arch-Vile & Revenant.

 

We could also create three more rotational sprites for the remaining monsters that don't have eight-rotations, by using those old 3D models released in the Late-1990s to Early-2010s as source material while mirroring one or more of the rotational sprites.

 

If you scene some of the screenshots I've extracted from a few gaming magazines previewing DOOM before its release in 1993, the back of the pre-ZeniMax retail releases boxes or the pre-release screenshots from MobyGames' promo art page of the registered version of DOOM from an earlier discussion on this forum regarding beta content in DOOM, you could potentially reconstruct the unreleased or earlier maps that don't have any info available.

[Doom_Dude]

Oh well, doom goes on. ;)

 

[The BMFG]

IS IT ONE OF THOSE DAYS WHERE YOU DONT WANNA WAKE UP EVERYTHINGS FUCKED EVERYONE SUCKS

 

[whatup876]

Sad news for both videogame history and the Doom fanbase. (specially for a series with a fanbase history so history, it comes with varying side effects)

I do wonder if it's anyone at id Software and not some execute at Bethesda or ZeniMax. (maybe they're still upset over Carmack or how Romero originally reacted with them purchasing id, even though he could have changed opinions because of how much he likes the new Doom games and Sigil getting added of the new ports of the classic games)

If i recall, even in 2015 or 14, he had trouble releasing alpha/beta Doom content.

 

If the MicroSoft purchase comes with good side effects and Carmack ever reconsiders getting back to id because of that (may be saying this out of misremembered info, correct me here) i hope something positive happens.

Expecting Romero to anonymously leak the contents is like someone doing the same with the Blood source code.

Too wishfull and it could lead to Romero getting in trouble.

 

edit: depending on the time, i wonder if any Doom related Youtuber will report this, even if it's Midnight.

Edited January 31, 2021 by whatup876

[OxalaiaQuilombensis]

FRICK

[Master O]

4 hours ago, Doom_Dude said:

Oh well, doom goes on. ;)

 

 

Didn't H-Doom do that already? :D

[ChopBlock223]

Can we get some verification from John Romero himself? I don't put much trust into just a Discord screenshot.

[MLGari]

39 minutes ago, ChopBlock223 said:

Can we get some verification from John Romero himself? I don't put much trust into just a Discord screenshot.

yeah i have a feeling these screenshots are fakes 

when romero responds on twitter then we'll know if these screenshots are real or not

Edited February 1, 2021 by MLGari
needs work

[Quasar]

12 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Back when the Doom 1 alphas were released in the late 90s, even if some people at id weren’t thrilled, no one ultimately cared enough to threaten anyone or do anything, really.

Frans P. de Vries obtained permission to upload those to the archive. I don't know if he was a beta tester himself or just knew one of them (guess I should ask sometime :P )

[Doomkid]

I haven’t read that name in ages! Reading it again reminds me of the term “summarily BFGed” which always stood out in my mind ever since I first browsed the alphas..

[lognifii]

If those screenshots are true, then that sucks big time. If not, hopefully more content will be released in the future. 

[Diabolución]

18 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I haven’t read that name in ages!

 

That name sounds like a xymphonic name or something...

 

As far as the topic goes, I would kill for getting:

- the authentic and genuine MIDIs of doom.wad and doom2.wad.

- the unmodified and pristine chiron.wad for doom2.wad.

 

But alas, legalities are legalities. I am afraid this is a losing battle from right the very start, so to speak. This is all assuming the screenshot is real, obviously.

[TenenteZashu]

I'm not surprised after what happened with Doom Remake 4

[Alexo]

I guess even being John Romero has its limits..

Perhaps Id would be keeping whats remaining for a more prime time like the 30th or 50th anniversary of the games?

Never lose hope fella's, we already have a lot of things documented and preserved. The larger question really is.. how much is there actually left of the cutting room floor materials??

[NoXion]

8 minutes ago, TenenteZashu said:

I'm not surprised after what happened with Doom Remake 4

IIRC what's funny about that one is that it was actually a whole bunch of separate mods that got collated into a single package for distribution. Or so I've been able to gather.

If the above is true, then I think it would be a really cool project for this forum to dig through that modpack and try and find out who made what, and then make a big post listing the mods and their authors and providing links to download where possible. People could then "build their own" modpack. Assuming that doing something like that wouldn't also arouse the lawyers.

Edited February 1, 2021 by NoXion

[Maes]

Most of the released assets may really be harmless/useless by now, but probably some Big Boss somewhere decided that going over all of them and deciding which ones are OK and which are not is just too much hassle -it's easier to say "no more freebies from now on, John", as already mentioned, and probably safer from a legal standpoint than just saying "Release 'em all, it's probably gonna be A-OK".  It's just the way things go in the industry.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Maes

[seed]

8 minutes ago, NoXion said:

IIRC what's funny about that one is that it was actually a whole bunch of separate mods that got collated into a single package for distribution. Or so I've been able to gather.

If the above is true, then I think it would be a really cool project for this forum to dig through that modpack and try and find out who made what, and then make a big post listing the mods and their authors and providing links to download where possible. People could then "build their own" modpack. Assuming that doing something like that wouldn't also arouse the lawyers.

 

That was a very different case from this.

 

I don't remember the details anymore, but the content and the way it was distributed in that so-called "mod" was never going to fly, it was not a legal combination. IIRC Freedoom was also involved in some capacity, as in, the way it was used.

 

16 hours ago, Gez said:

I doubt lawyers were involved. More like "hey John, you know that legally you're not allowed to do that? We love you man but please don't do it again".

 

Sigil wouldn't have become an official add-on if there had been actual bad blood between Romero and id.

 

Hm, didn't think of that.

 

Either way, it doesn't matter anymore. I suppose Romero should have thought it through at the time with how big Doom is nowadays, releasing all that stuff without permission was a guaranteed ticket for getting into trouble later. That being said, we still got that content - and got to keep it too, so whatever.

[NoXion]

53 minutes ago, seed said:

 

That was a very different case from this.

 

I don't remember the details anymore, but the content and the way it was distributed in that so-called "mod" was never going to fly, it was not a legal combination. IIRC Freedoom was also involved in some capacity, as in, the way it was used.

I thought the lawyers came out of the woodwork because the package originally contained retail assets? Although I could also see them getting antsy if the Doom retail assets were replaced with Freedoom ones, even if they hadn't told the guy to stop working on it completely. And that's not even getting into the lack of credit for the original authors.

 

Still, the project fascinates me despite being killed off. A comprehensive attempt to gussy up classic Doom in one neat package is just a more convenient version of the way I sometimes play it. Plus the fact that the lawyers say I can't have it just makes me want it more.

[Biodegradable]

14 minutes ago, NoXion said:

I thought the lawyers came out of the woodwork because the package originally contained retail assets?

 

Yep, that's exactly why Bethesda stomped on it flat. It was redistributing IWADs. vasyan777, the dork behind it even had instructional videos on a YouTube channel that showed you how to download IWADs "legally for free".

 

[DooM Bear]

On 2/1/2021 at 1:17 AM, Redneckerz said:

@sponge love to hear your thoughts in this one, as id Member. :)

 

I dare say I doubt he would be able to say anything unfortunately (probably has to have “a public image that is in line with the companies views / let PR deal with everything” clause in his contract or something) :-(

 

Although fingers crossed an Id vetted / official statement on why would be awesome :-D I’m hoping they can give a genuine and good reason as to why not but I really struggle to see any harm coming from it.

 

19 hours ago, seed said:

 

Nah they honestly do, otherwise we would have seen a lot more cynicism manifesting in every decision and not just issues with unreleased Doom content.

 

Uhhum... You have obviously forgotten about fallout 76 :-P 

 

Na I actually agree with you :-) They definitely care a LOT more than other publishers (looking at you EA) ;-P

[Gez]

12 minutes ago, DooM Bear said:

looking at you EA

Even EA had its broken clock moment, the C&C remaster was pretty much everything a fan of the series could have asked for.

 

I guess this leaves Activision-Blizzard and Ubisoft as contenders vying for the much-coveted title of worst video game company.

[seed]

8 minutes ago, Gez said:

Even EA had its broken clock moment, the C&C remaster was pretty much everything a fan of the series could have asked for.

 

Then lost it again with NFS Hot Pursuit 2010 Remastered, which was just a few months ago. They literally remastered a game that did not need a remaster.

 

Which is also worse than the original release, it is missing stuff, has higher system requirements, and apart from some better effects (I think the lighting is a bit better?), it is a downgrade (textures in particular are lower res than the original version).

 

Cool stuff, de-mastered another game, to sell a now 10$ game for 60$. Capitalism done right, what can I say. I think its only merit is that it runs generally fine out-of-the-box, which the original no longer does - if you don't mess with the Core Affinity, the game stutters pretty badly at times on newer hardware.

Edited February 1, 2021 by seed

[forgettable pyromaniac]

Saw from Doomkid's video on it.

 

Still sad but par for the course, because companies just dont care anymore :v

[The Almighty Egg]

I feel bad for Revenant100 that guy spent so much time on that sprite fixing project.

[ABRACADABRA]

9 hours ago, ChopBlock223 said:

Can we get some verification from John Romero himself? I don't put much trust into just a Discord screenshot.

 

9 hours ago, MLGari said:

yeah i have a feeling these screenshots are fakes 

when romero responds on twitter then we'll know if these screenshots are real or not

well, it was screenshots from his discord server, he talked all evening yesterday, go check it out for yourself

https://discord.gg/Ab9tnd5y

[MLGari]

I don't see those messages 

you are talking about