Sad news on new unreleased content

[seed]

1 hour ago, Gez said:

Yes, Microsoft is going to be a lot nicer. :)

 

Yes, give studios extra funds to make the console versions superior to the PC version :p.

[Oldschoolgeek32]

To be honest, I don't really see the point of using legal action against unreleased content of classic Doom. I mean like, What in the world would they do with that unreleased content. they couldn't possibly generate any profit or money from it so it doesn't really make any sense on why they would use legal action. these unreleased content from the classic Doom is more than 20 years old at this point and I'm sad to say that they might never see the light of day. those unreleased content may mean copyright for them, but it means a lot to the Doom community and the Doom legacy 

[Gez]

Hey guys, spoiler alert, but -- if there's all this unused/unfinished/rejected content in Doom, do you believe that it's something somehow unique to Doom because, I don't know, id Software was extraordinarily wasteful in its development practices; or that you'd get just as much unused unreleased content for just about any game from any other studio as well?

 

Now, just how many asset releases have there been for all the non-id games you've heard of?

[wallabra]

20 hours ago, Sunnyfruit said:

In the end I think it's better to think of the assets that can be made now rather than obsessing about the cut content from the past.

 

Have you ever heard of preservationism?

 

52 minutes ago, seed said:

Yes, give studios extra funds to make the console versions superior to the PC version :p.

 

That's what makes me sad. New Doom titles were clearly focused on the console, and with the Microsoft acquisition Doom Eternic Boogaloo is probably gonna be geared toward the Xbox, and be shit on literally any other platform (especially PC). Remember when Macrohard actually cared about PC? Or at least still had the tiniest semblance thereof? Or, for that matter, cared about PC at all.

 

I don't even use Windows. Why would you?

 

They're betting hard on PC being the past, and mobile the future. I wish they were less right.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Gustavo6046

[seed]

10 minutes ago, Gez said:

Now, just how many asset releases have there been for all the non-id games you've heard of?

 

Officially, by current or former devs? None that I know of.

 

Unofficially, these things can leak sometimes :p. Various people managed to gain access to various prototypes and unreleased devbuilds of various NFS titles, and what could be ported over to PC has taken various forms and shapes, primarily restoration mods, such as Beta Content.

 

Some idiots did try to sell those however, and they got a C&D from EA themselves - but they had the courtesy to leave the rest of the modders alone. Even EA can be cool sometimes.

Edited February 5, 2021 by seed

[D4NUK1]

5 hours ago, Gustavo6046 said:

That's what makes me sad. New Doom titles were clearly focused on the console, and with the Microsoft acquisition Doom Eternic Boogaloo is probably gonna be geared toward the XBox, and be shit on literally any other platform (especially PC).

 

The way of how id 7 engine works and how it's optimized, may show that will run the great without being console/pc.
The days of consoles power and PC power it's still better than the PS3 era to PC.

And if that's your opinion, you dont know too much about how this engine works 

[Gez]

4 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

Have you ever heard of preservationism?

A noble cause, but usually focused on the completed works, not on the drafts. I'm not saying these drafts don't have value, but most companies will not see them as stuff that the public should see. Cut content, after all, was cut for a reason. Said reason may be:

1. Low-quality placeholder, replaced with better version in final product
2. "Borrowed" placeholder, replaced with original asset
3. This part of the game didn't turn out right/in hindsight, a bad idea, cf. the whole Doom 4 v1.0

There's always a fear that unused assets may, if released, reflect poorly on the game, or the company. Like imagine how embarrassing it'd be if a leak revealed that at some point a developer put in a colony of sex-obsessed lizard people?

[seed]

16 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

That's what makes me sad. New Doom titles were clearly focused on the console, and with the Microsoft acquisition Doom Eternic Boogaloo is probably gonna be geared toward the Xbox, and be shit on literally any other platform (especially PC). Remember when Macrohard actually cared about PC? Or at least still had the tiniest semblance thereof? Or, for that matter, cared about PC at all.

 

How? It looks and plays very well on PC, I'm not seeing how the newer games are geared towards console players considering how relentless they are.

 

18 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

I don't even use Windows. Why would you?

 

Software compatibility and ease of use mainly. When Linux is getting there I'll reconsider switching, until then I'd rather get a Mac. Team Windows FTW.

[whatup876]

Stuff about preversing history of a game is why i think instead of physical art books, there could have been in-game galleries for art (or even music) besides just the model viewers and some codex lore pages with images.

Or even a Ratchet and Clank museum thing.

I mean, what if id wants to do a "Art of Classic Doom" book?

[wallabra]

4 minutes ago, jamondemarnatural said:

The way of how id 7 engine works and how it's optimized, may show that will run the great without being console/pc.

 

Oh? I mean, fair enough, if your software has good enough performance then it becomes unnecessary to establish compromises for lower-end hardware.

 

I'd still rather the releases be separate, rather than simply porting a console version to PC and causing stripped down features. Remember the SnapMap?

 

4 minutes ago, jamondemarnatural said:

The days of consoles power and PC power it's still better than the PS3 era to PC.

 

Hm? You mean, like... what?

 

4 minutes ago, jamondemarnatural said:

And if that's your opinion, you dont know too much about how this engine works 

 

It's not just the engine. It's any new Bethesda release, particularly id releases. id's best titles were all IBM PC exclusive, because the IBM PC was that good. I mean, heck, it still is the best lineage today, so.

 

I don't like consoles, but I kind of get the appeal of them, of couch gaming, or inserting the CD (or game selection in the online launcher or what have you), or whatever. Especially for something like a family, it's clearly better than everyone having their own PC, both economically and logistically.

 

But I wish more people knew how great the PC was. It is still the definition of power, nevermind all the other machines that came after it (particularly mobile devices). Funny how something hailing from the 1980s can prevail all the "modern" walled-garden alternatives. Apple can go fuck themselves, if it weren't for them we would perhaps still be seeing better iterations of the personal computer. Heck, I'd take even mostly incremental ones over the corporate abonimations we have today.

[seed]

4 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

But I wish more people knew how great the PC was. It is still the definition of power

 

Sure thing, give us $2000 each to build a high end rig and we have a deal 👍.

 

I don't think I understand what you see wrong in SnapMap though. Limitations aside it was way better than nothing.

[wallabra]

16 minutes ago, seed said:

Software compatibility and ease of use mainly. When Linux is getting there I'll reconsider switching, until then I'd rather get a Mac.

 

Linux does have Wine, although mileage may vary there. There are lots of software to do lots of different things, but yeah, the gamut is a bit narrower than Windows, although the choices you do have are easier to install, as you can just go to the package manager. Even uninstalling is painless, since packages don't have uninstall programs, nor do they have the choice to be stubborn like Windows antivirus historically are. (There are uninstall hooks, but all the package files are wiped by the package manager anyway by the time the uninstall command/action is over).

 

Ease of use is not really that much of a valid argument against all of Linuxdom, either. There are lots of distros. Mileage WILL vary, and it really is a matter of distro hopping until you find something that works for you. I'm using Manjaro right now, which on second thought might not be the best idea (next time I will try a source-based option), but it works fine.

 

16 minutes ago, seed said:

Team Windows FTW.

 

Nevermind all I just said. Linux to the moon, Linux to the end of times! >:/   *cue hyper-competitive hand-rubbing noises, emphasis on hyper*

 

4 minutes ago, seed said:

Sure thing, give us $2000 each to build a high end rig and we have a deal 👍.

 

That is true, too. Hardware vendors kinda suck right now.

 

Although, funny you say that. My PC is like 10 years old, so it does not support every new application, and certainly can't run most newer games with smooth framerate. For instance, Minecraft can be quite slow, and the profiler disc shows it's 50% graphics, 50% tick. Dangit, stupid Java. Good thing Minetest comes with modding support out of the box and is quite fun in multiplayer, and actually uses UDP instead of Minecraft's ancient and abysmal TCP netcode!

 

You don't get a lot of choice here in the third world; sometimes it's take it or leave it.

 

4 minutes ago, seed said:

I don't think I understand what you see wrong in SnapMap though. Limitations aside it was way better than nothing.

 

Why not just provide development tools? Like UnrealEd, or the UDK for more a newfangled comparison?

Edited February 5, 2021 by Gustavo6046

[D4NUK1]

5 hours ago, Gustavo6046 said:

 

"The days of consoles power and PC power it's still better than the PS3 era to PC."

 

Hm? You mean, like... what?

 

It's a comparation when in the PS3-XBOX360 life cycle, many games go first to Console then to PC, and where the Console was pushing to the max, in PC there was more to add. One of the Best examples and memes, should be "It's run Crysis, when comparing the PC version to the PS3/360 Version"

Nowdays, the difference really it's small, and only comparable with more powerful and expensives GPU/CPU.

[wallabra]

4 minutes ago, jamondemarnatural said:

It's a comparation when in the PS3-XBOX360 life cycle, many games go first to Console then to PC, and where the Console was pushing to the max, in PC there was more to add. One of the Best examples and memes, should be "It's run Crysis, when comparing the PC version to the PS3/360 Version"

 

Ahhh, I see. Yeah.

 

4 minutes ago, jamondemarnatural said:

Nowdays, the difference really it's small, and only comparable with more powerful and expensives GPU/CPU.

 

True. But consoles and computers don't differ just in pure hardware horsepower, there's a lot of other factors that go into the notable difference between the PC user experience and the console user experience. Particularly with how much freedom you have with what you have in each.

 

(Yeah, I like freedom. I lamentably don't have a Richard Stallman body-pillow, though.)

Edited February 5, 2021 by Gustavo6046

[seed]

2 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

Linux does have Wine, although mileage may vary there. There are lots of software to do lots of different things, but yeah, the gamut is a bit narrower than Windows, although the choices you do have are easier to install, as you can just go to the package manager. Even uninstalling is painless, since packages don't have uninstall programs, nor do they have the choice to be stubborn like Windows antivirus historically are. (There are uninstall hooks, but all the package files are wiped by the package manager anyway by the time the uninstall command/action is over).

 

Ease of use is not really that much of a valid argument against all of Linuxdom, either. There are lots of distros. Mileage WILL vary, and it really is a matter of distro hopping until you find something that works for you. I'm using Manjaro right now, which on second thought might not be the best idea (next time I will try a source-based option), but it works fine.

 

I know, and well, yes, I'm not denying that or saying Linux is obtuse as a whole, but it's still an entirely new system to learn, in some ways easier but in other ways definitely harder - it's still a hobbyist OS for a reason after all.

 

And when it gets rough, it sure does get rough there. And too much can vary from distro to distro, might end up sacrificing usability for ease of use in some cases. It took me a long time to get used to Windows in the first place, the kind of time I sure as heck don't have anymore, hence why I'd rather learn my way around Mac quicker than Linux. Mint is kind of the only distro I might stand a chance against, theoretically at least. Anything more advanced, like Arch, is way too obtuse for the simpleton that I am.

 

If I could be a chemical element, I'd be a new one, called simpletonium :p.

[wallabra]

8 minutes ago, seed said:

It took me a long time to get used to Windows in the first place, the kind of time I sure as heck don't have anymore, hence why I'd rather learn my way around Mac quicker than Linux.

 

How does one "get used to Windows"? i grew up with Windows. Did you grow up with MS-DOS? What is this, Doomworld?!

 

Well, that time was probably adapting to the then novel concept of graphical user interface. You'd probably fare a lot better now that you know what a window is and how they stack. Really, most of the time you don't need to look at the turning gears. It's just you can, it's different.

 

8 minutes ago, seed said:

Mint is kind of the only distro I might stand a chance against, theoretically at least. Anything more advanced, like Arch, is way too obtuse for the simpleton that I am.

 

Hey, don't aim high early. Mint is okay, but there are lots more "entry-level" distros. Debian is decent if you ask me. Manjaro is basically Arch Linux fitted for an entry-level audience, so you can try that too.

 

Heck, "trying Linux" is as simple as dual-booting, or heck, even running a virtual machine (although the performance of that might not be a very reliable measurement compared to metal). Don't like it? Wipe the Linux partition, or maybe come back to it later with another distro installed or something.

 

I used to be scared of Linux too. Then I tried it, and realized, it's not a boss monster that you have to learn strategies and be a chad to beat. No, quite the opposite, it's your friend. And its community is your friend too. I did undeniably have lots of issues in my roller-coaster using Linux, but there was always support online to help. Primarily ##linux at freenode in IRC. Those guys rock. Rock, rock, rock. I love them! ^{(I like my answers instant and troubleshooting that doesn't take days of back-and-forth forum boards replies, please don't judge me.)}

 

8 minutes ago, seed said:

If I could be a chemical element, I'd be a new one, called simpletonium :p.

 

Nah man, it's not on you. Don't be so rough on yourself mate.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Gustavo6046

[Sunnyfruit]

53 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

 

Have you ever heard of preservationism?

 

 

Yes. Does it extent to ALL the cut content? To be clear I don't say that the past should burn.

A finished product went through endless cycles of creation and selection. Are the rejected elements really part of it? It's a nice addition but I'm not sure it's always covered by the need to preserve.

[Robo_Cola]

1 hour ago, Gez said:

Hey guys, spoiler alert, but -- if there's all this unused/unfinished/rejected content in Doom, do you believe that it's something somehow unique to Doom because, I don't know, id Software was extraordinarily wasteful in its development practices; or that you'd get just as much unused unreleased content for just about any game from any other studio as well?

 

Now, just how many asset releases have there been for all the non-id games you've heard of?

That may be true, but Doom is our golden child and the only one worth digging knee-deep-into-the-scrapped-code to scavenge any useless resources previously uncovered then making a 100 page thread about it.

[wallabra]

3 minutes ago, Sunnyfruit said:

Yes. Does it extent to ALL the cut content?

 

Valid point.

 

3 minutes ago, Sunnyfruit said:

A finished product went through endless cycles of creation and selection. Are the rejected elements really part of it? It's a nice addition but I'm not sure it's always covered by the need to preserve.

 

Indeed. I guess it's more like niche trivia stuff sometimes. Or documentation. Not necessarily preservation, but documentation, I guess?

[seed]

2 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

Nah man, it's not on you. Don't be so rough on yourself mate.

 

Lol I'm really not, that's cute of you to assume - I think by now you know how my posts used to look like once upon a time when I was rough on myself, those days are over.

 

I could maybe learn an easier distro, it isn't an impossible task, no, but it will be a pain in the ass, and there still is stuff that is just not available there, which I do need, and will have to learn new tools after just getting used to my current ones.

 

Basically, I also have little desire to complicate myself when I can just keep it simple - and I love overcomplicating myself, I complicate even the simplest things, my brain just doesn't process "easy" -, and my main concerns come from the inevitable cases where I will need to fire up the terminal to do stuff. I dunno, maybe if I get a laptop or something I can toy around with a distro.

[wallabra]

5 minutes ago, seed said:

my main concerns come from the inevitable cases where I will need to fire up the terminal to do stuff.

 

Yeah, that part kinda sucks. But the troubleshooting tends to be simple; read logs, find which part is the error to figure where the error comes from, then investigate what could be causing said error.

 

Places like the Arch Wiki and the Gentoo Wiki have very good material for troubleshooting user-space software (which applies to a lot of distros, don't be misled by the wikis being geared toward those distros.), and with the extra aide of online support, if a problem does arise (which, disclaimer, it probably will at some point), you can quickly get back to the game. Think of it like a pit stop.

 

Linux is very flexible so there are almost always multiple approaches to issues.

 

5 minutes ago, seed said:

those days are over.

yay

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Gustavo6046

[Sunnyfruit]

16 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

 I guess it's more like niche trivia stuff sometimes. Or documentation. Not necessarily preservation, but documentation, I guess?

 

Yes for documentation, I think it could be precious data for academy researchers who would dress up a bigger picture of how different developers would work in those times, like a long-term study of the history of independent game development. But what happened is its own lesson, the one that it is better to build-up and release instead of tease.

 

Maybe that's an "unrefined" way to see things, but as for Linux I think it becomes way less scary if you think about it as an Android variant rather than the opposite ;)

Edited February 5, 2021 by Sunnyfruit

[seed]

12 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

Yeah, that part kinda sucks. But the troubleshooting tends to be simple; read logs, find which part is the error to figure where the error comes from, then investigate what could be causing said error.

 

Places like the Arch Wiki and the Gentoo Wiki have very good material for troubleshooting user-space software (which applies to a lot of distros, don't be misled by the wikis being geared toward those distros.), and with the extra aide of online support, if a problem does arise (which, disclaimer, it probably will at some point), you can quickly get back to the game. Think of it like a pit stop.

 

Linux is very flexible so there are almost always multiple approaches to issues.

 

I don't doubt, it would be interesting, and probably annoying other times too.

 

Apart from terminal stuff and the other aspects, another gripe I have with it is related to the file system and partitions, I'm super used to how it works on Windows, and again even Mac, but Linux still makes my head spin - oh you little /dev/ bullshit, just go away :p.

[wallabra]

29 minutes ago, seed said:

Apart from terminal stuff and the other aspects, another gripe I have with it is related to the file system and partitions, I'm super used to how it works on Windows, and again even Mac, but Linux still makes my head spin - oh you little /dev/ bullshit, just go away :p.

 

No, that's a Unix thing, which Linux inherits. It just separates the actual "devices" from the mount points. This way your "D:" can actually be inside of any folder, as long as you mount the right device.

 

Say, if /dev/sdb is your USB thumb drive, and /dev/sdb1 is its main filesystem partition, you can mount that to /mnt/pendrive or /tmp/my_pendrive or /home/seed/pendrive... It really doesn't matter. I like that.

[Doomkid]

13 hours ago, seed said:

Ah shit, RIP ZDoom mate :p.

Say hello to D!Zoom everyone!

[Diabolución]

On 2/1/2021 at 11:23 AM, Diabolución said:

As far as the topic goes, I would kill for getting:

- the authentic and genuine MIDIs of doom.wad and doom2.wad.

- the unmodified and pristine chiron.wad for doom2.wad.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Diabolución
This lame CKEditor...

[wallabra]

Es para mí?

 

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

Say hello to D!Zoom everyone!

Darn those damn d!zoomers, rite! :P

Edited February 5, 2021 by Gustavo6046

[EndHack]

On 2/5/2021 at 1:17 PM, seed said:

 

Sure thing, give us $2000 each to build a high end rig and we have a deal 👍.

 

I don't think I understand what you see wrong in SnapMap though. Limitations aside it was way better than nothing.

I don't really want to get into the whole console vs pc argument both have advantages and disadvantages but I have seen articles on how to build a pc with equivalent or higher power then the new modern consoles with $500 you do have to go through and order all the parts yourself and build it if you want one at that price but it seems to be doable if the buyer would be willing to get their hands messy
check my next message

Edited February 8, 2021 by EndHack
incorrect information

[seed]

18 minutes ago, EndHack said:

I don't really want to get into the whole console vs pc argument both have advantages and disadvantages but I have seen articles on how to build a pc with equivalent or higher power then the new modern consoles with $500 you do have to go through and order all the parts yourself and build it if you want one at that price but it seems to be doable if the buyer would be willing to get their hands messy

 

Well, yes and no. If you run into a bleeding edge game, which requires some RTX 2070/GTX 1070/1080 to play on High settings (or more, but I don't personally care for also maxing them out), then your PC is definitely going to be no less than $1000 - just looked up some prices for an RTX 2070, and it seems to cost no less than $800, on Amazon at least.

 

But I guess it varies a lot with expectations. Still, I want High settings, 60fps, and my monitor's native resolution when playing, whatever that resolution may be. If I can't have that, I'm content not playing the game and doing something else. I don't accept any compromises here. Then again, if I could just throw that kind of money at a PC I would probably do it, but as far as I'm concerned that money is better spent elsewhere, including hobbies other than gaming.

Edited February 8, 2021 by seed

[EndHack]

hey so I was in the middle of editing my message when you posted so I'll just plop this here then edit my message
I decided to check my sources to make sure I didn't get anything wrong and I was wrong it seems that multiple articles which had been written (or at least released) this year calling their custom built pc's console killers where actually talking about killing the previous generation consoles so I'm sorry that was my bad for skimming though articles and then using them as evidence 

Edited February 8, 2021 by EndHack