About developing a GZ-based game, I have questions.

[DoomSlayer300000]

Recently I am trying to develop—an Indie Game based on the GZ engine. But now I run into some serious difficulties.

1. Is it possible to use GZDOOM to make the game? My idea is to create a DOOM-LIKE retro FPS, which can be started without downloading something else. You guys can check Hedon.

2. Where should I start? Should I learn C+ or C++ or anything else? 

3. I recently need people who can do the arts, including weapons and ammo and something else. Does anyone want to join my team? I pay in advance if you wish. The program has just started; anyone with skills is welcomed.

[SyntherAugustus]

It sounds like you need to read the ZDoom wiki and perhaps make a mod first.

 

Zdoom Wiki

Edited February 2, 2021 by SyntherAugustus

[inkoalawetrust]

As Synther said, you really need to thoroughly read through most, if not all of the (G)ZDoom Wiki. The fact that you are even asking how to make a full game in GZDoom instead of knowing already is a good indication that you should probably start with the basics instead. But to answer the questions you specifically asked:

 

2 hours ago, DoomSlayer300000 said:

1. Is it possible to use GZDOOM to make the game? My idea is to create a DOOM-LIKE retro FPS, which can be started without downloading something else. You guys can check Hedon.

Well you answered your own question there, yes, GZDoom can, has, and is currently being used to make full games such as Selaco, Brutal Fate, and that (Other lol) Lovecraft-themed game someone here on DW is working on whose thread I can't find again, to list a few. And that isn't even counting the total conversions (Read: Games) made for GZDoom such as Blade of Agony and Total Chaos.
 

2 hours ago, DoomSlayer300000 said:

2. Where should I start? Should I learn C+ or C++ or anything else? 

Yes, that would actually be a very good idea since both scripting languages that GZDoom mainly uses, ACS (Level scripting) and ZScript (Custom game entities, UIs, menus etc), are modelled after C-Style languages, as both of their respective articles state, so that knowledge could transfer over.
There is also DECORATE, but it has been deprecated since the first full release of ZScript 3 years ago, and is nowhere near as powerful as ZScript (e.g DECORATE can only create classes that inherit from Actor*).

I can't give too much help with this since I kind of just stumbled my way into gaining any understanding of either ACS or ZScript. However, while the afformentioned DECORATE has been deprecated, there is a pretty complete set of guides on the wiki on how to use it that you could follow, to figure out how to make stuff from simple non-interactive decorations up to custom actors and/or monsters. Plus most of the stuff that is listed under "List of actor references" is still perfectly applicable (And still essential.) to ZScript. Once you figure out how to do most of the things listed in those guides and reference pages, you'll be able to follow THIS tutorial on how to use ZScript, which to quote from its' first page:
 

Quote

This guide is aimed at people with prior DECORATE (and possibly ACS) knowledge. It implies that you know what GZDoom is, what actors are, how they're structured, how they interact with each other. All of those aspects are covered by ZDoom Wiki, so I don't feel there's a need to describe them within this guide.

Which is why you should follow the DECORATE and ACS tutorials on the wiki first. Another extremely useful resource would be the ZDoom Discord server (Which I'm not sure if I can directly link here, but there is a link to it on the ZDoom Wiki homepage. It has a scripting channel where you can ask any questions related to scripting that are not covered anywhere on the Wiki, or if you don't know what to look for on the wiki in the first place. The author of the ZScript guide and me are also on the ZDoom server as well.
 

 

2 hours ago, DoomSlayer300000 said:

3. I recently need people who can do the arts, including weapons and ammo and something else. Does anyone want to join my team? I pay in advance if you wish. The program has just started; anyone with skills is welcomed.

Well I don't really know what to say or how to help with this since my artistic skills are nearly nonexistent lol

*Actors are basically all the game entities that you can actually see in-game and that exist within the game world, there's more to this but that would just make this post way longer so I'm not covering it unless you want me to.

Edited February 2, 2021 by inkoalawetrust

[spineapple tea]

^{is this gonna be another "ok?" thread?}

[inkoalawetrust]

12 minutes ago, N1ck said:

^{is this gonna be another "ok?" thread?}

It probably is, in which case I have inadvertently fallen for the elaborate ruse, especially considering that the account was made literally just an hour ago, and last visited only a few minutes after being created.
 

Spoiler

Still keeping that wall of text I typed about getting started with (Z)Doom modding though lol, in case someone who is actually curious on how to start with Doom modding asks in a thread.

Edited February 2, 2021 by inkoalawetrust

[P41R47]

10 minutes ago, inkoalawetrust said:

It probably is, in which case I have inadvertently fallen for the elaborate ruse, especially considering that the account was made literally just an hour ago, and last visited only a few minutes after being created.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Still keeping that wall of text I typed about getting started with (Z)Doom modding though lol, in case someone who is actually curious on how to start with Doom modding asks in a thread.

Ruse or not, your helping input is appreaciated, pal! :)

I'm not much around the GZDoom community, and i didn't knew DECORATE was deprecated completely.

Damn, i remember doing so really good stuff with it.

Hope what i learn, if i ever do something for GZDoom again, works on ZScript.

[Murdoch]

It sounds like you are trying to win gold in every event in the Olympics before you can crawl. Game development - organising a team, keeping them on task and bringing everything together - is NOT easy. @SyntherAugustus is dead on. Start simple. Read the wiki and make a simple Doom mod (even if you do not release it). The more you understand what's involved the better off you will be, even if you cannot do that task as well as someone else can.

[inkoalawetrust]

44 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

Ruse or not, your helping input is appreaciated, pal! :)

I'm not much around the GZDoom community, and i didn't knew DECORATE was deprecated completely.

Damn, i remember doing so really good stuff with it.

Hope what i learn, if i ever do something for GZDoom again, works on ZScript.

Well your old DECORATE code should still work since DECORATE can still be used (Along with some advanced features from ZScript such as anonymous functions that IIRC were added right around the time that DECORATE was being made into more of a programming language to transition to ZScript/DoomScript) and ran in GZDoom. It's also what I've used to make stuff such as this nuclear missile launcher**, or this tank with an independently moving chassis and turret, or this APC I'm currently working on. Also here is a cooler looking shot of the APC, that I made in paint.net last night and also currently have set as my profile banner, it also includes a turret on top that I haven't coded in yet:



Me going on a tangent about my own stuff aside, you could also convert your DECORATE to ZScript, which there is a guide on the wiki for, and despite how ridiculously overcomplicated the wiki makes it sound (As it tends to do with a lot of things*), it's mostly just a few changes in syntax, and once you get the hang of it it becomes less complex to do and more just tedious.

 

11 minutes ago, Murdoch said:

It sounds like you are trying to win gold in every event in the Olympics before you can crawl. Game development - organising a team, keeping them on task and bringing everything together - is NOT easy. @SyntherAugustus is dead on. Start simple. Read the wiki and make a simple Doom mod (even if you do not release it). The more you understand what's involved the better off you will be, even if you cannot do that task as well as someone else can.

I think someone here may have given a more detailed explanation on how to start than just reading the wiki and trying to figure out where or how to even start. Wink wink nudge nudge 

*Like how the 3D bridge tutorial from 2012 makes using bridge things sound like nuclear physics. When in reality (At least nowadays.), it's as simple as placing a custom bridge thing down on a map, changing it's height and radius to whatever you want on the Action/Tag/Misc tab, and then lifting it to whatever height you want by going into visual mode, selecting it, and moving it up or down with the scroll wheel. 
**Which I also updated a few days ago to produce a shockwave when it explodes, along with giving radiation poisoning to anything nearby, and also made it produce a second fire ring after the mushroom grows a bit, I also fixed a bug that allowed you to redetonate the nuke under certain conditions after it already explodes. But I can't make an update video on it since I no longer have access to the computer that allowed me to record the footage for the first video and the tank video in the first place, I also can't record a video of the APC for the forseeable future because of that.

Edited February 2, 2021 by inkoalawetrust

[Gez]

1 hour ago, inkoalawetrust said:

and that (Other lol) Lovecraft-themed game someone here on DW is working on whose thread I can't find again

That would be @Szuran's He Came From Beyond:

 

 

One could also mention @Korshun's Forestale:

 

Also more recently there was Snap the Sentinel by @TehRealSalt and friends:

 

I'd also suggest keeping an eye on Green Legacy's Operation ECHO and @Nash's Darkadia.

[DoomSlayer300000]

I am not a cheater or a mad man. I make this account because I knew the DOOMWORLD'e existence only a week ago. I am trying to create a new game, not make fun of you guys. Beep.

[inkoalawetrust]

45 minutes ago, DoomSlayer300000 said:

I am not a cheater or a mad man. I make this account because I knew the DOOMWORLD'e existence only a week ago. I am trying to create a new game, not make fun of you guys. Beep.

The way that message is worded sounds too similar to the last 1-2 trolls I myself have seen recently so I doubt your question was all that legitimate.
 

 

1 hour ago, Gez said:

That would be @Szuran's He Came From Beyond:

 

 

Yeah that's the one I was thinking of and coludn't find (Again).

Edited February 2, 2021 by inkoalawetrust

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

2 hours ago, DoomSlayer300000 said:

I am not a cheater or a mad man.

No one said that.  If you feel the need to defend yourself from accusations that no one even made, then it's pretty clear that you're not being serious.

 

[chungy]

21 minutes ago, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

If you feel the need to defend yourself from accusations that no one even made

 

5 hours ago, N1ck said:

^{is this gonna be another "ok?" thread?}

 

 

The defensive position is entirely understandable.

 

Guys, this is toxic behavior. Assume good faith always.

[CivilianM91]

Quote

40 minutes ago, chungy said:

 

 

 

The defensive position is entirely understandable.

 

Guys, this is toxic behavior. Assume good faith always.

 

THANK YOU! How quickly this thread turned was stressing me out. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by CivilianM91

[Redneckerz]

10 hours ago, DoomSlayer300000 said:

Recently I am trying to develop—an Indie Game based on the GZ engine. But now I run into some serious difficulties.

Okay, what have you done so far to find a solution for those difficulties? This will help others from linking to things that may or may not be obvious.

 

However, the rest of your comment suggests that very little research was done before running into said difficulties.

10 hours ago, DoomSlayer300000 said:

1. Is it possible to use GZDOOM to make the game? My idea is to create a DOOM-LIKE retro FPS, which can be started without downloading something else. You guys can check Hedon.

Since Hedon is running on GZDoom (a subtle fork infact, hGZDoom) - yes, this is possible. In order to create resources, you will need something like Ultimate Doom Builder, SLADE, a good level editing tutorial and something like Paint.net.

 

As others have given plenty of tutorial examples, ill just limit myself to the names of the programs used.

10 hours ago, DoomSlayer300000 said:

2. Where should I start? Should I learn C+ or C++ or anything else? 

3. I recently need people who can do the arts, including weapons and ammo and something else. Does anyone want to join my team? I pay in advance if you wish. The program has just started; anyone with skills is welcomed.

• The fact that you are asking where you have to start strengthens the earlier suggestion. As mentioned above, GZDoom relies on DECORATE/ZScript for the vast majority - C+/C++ is mostly delegated to source code editing, which is only if you want to make source changes that aren't possible using scripting languages.
• Now this right here is a big no-no to me: You don't know what is required to craft a GZDoom based game and ask what you should learn, but then make an offer: You need people and you are willing to pay for it. I see it the other way around: I much rather see you learn the necessary skills to perform the tasks ahead of you.
• A project usually needs some kind of impression to sell to people. A resource, a screenshot, an artwork.. - Something that makes the community (Which consists of experienced mappers/programmers themselves) excited to work with you. In your case, there is nothing to go with. There is an idea and a request/offer. None of these give a good idea of what you are aiming for.

7 hours ago, DoomSlayer300000 said:

I am not a cheater or a mad man. I make this account because I knew the DOOMWORLD'e existence only a week ago. I am trying to create a new game, not make fun of you guys. Beep.

I suppose the ''Beep'' is sarcasm in light of allegations that you are a bot?

 

Aside that, none of made the accusation of being a cheat or a madman. What is said, however, is that the road ahead is significant and that what you are selling is an idea, but without anything that gives off an impression.

3 hours ago, chungy said:

 

The defensive position is entirely understandable.

 

Guys, this is toxic behavior. Assume good faith always.

Anyone that wants to craft a GZDoom based game and then ask: ''Where should i start?'' and say: ''Join my team'' is either very young, naive, or unwilling to do the bare minimum in collecting information on what it takes to make a GZDoom based game (or Doom modding in general).

 

Just one look at the DoomWiki would give you a lot of answers, sufficient enough to formulate different questions than what the OP does.

 

There is a difference between geniunely interested in the world of Doom modding or being the equivalent of an Ideas Guy.

 

This isn't about giving people a hard time, but we gotta establish some middle ground.

 

3 hours ago, CivilianM91 said:

THANK YOU! How quickly this thread turned was stressing me out. 

How could you, when you aren't the OP....

 

... Unless you are the OP.

[CivilianM91]

3 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

How could you, when you aren't the OP....

 

... Unless you are the OP.

No, just get annoyed at folks who act like typing out a response to a question is difficult. I see it everywhere, in every community and it never ceases to amaze me how uppity people get about just pointing someone out to a helpful direction. If it’s going to bug you that badly to help guide someone to some answers then you could just not post. You harping on the individual for not having good research skills or comprehension is beyond dickish.

 

There could be a number of reasons they considered asking around before attempting any of these things, or maybe they were under the impression a community of Doom modders would be helpful to them (ha). Just saying, there’s zero reason to act like someone pissed in your Cheerios just because it bothers you they couldn’t educate themselves the same way you did.

Edited February 2, 2021 by CivilianM91

[Redneckerz]

8 hours ago, CivilianM91 said:

No, just get annoyed at folks who act like typing out a response to a question is difficult. I see it everywhere, in every community and it never ceases to amaze me how uppity people get about just pointing someone out to a helpful direction.

Primarily because a ton of these questions are a click away from answers and it takes more time to create a thread?

 

There is nothing dickish about it considering OP only has an idea yet requests a team to do the work for him.  Its the approach, not the result.

 

I am just saying, its not that easy and check some things out, first.

 

Plenty of people get help here because they provide an impression or atleast make mention of what steps they have followed themselves before asking for help. In doing so, they save respondents a great deal of time answering the obvious answers.

 

OP has an idea, not an impression.

Quote

There could be a number of reasons they considered asking around before attempting any of these things, or maybe they were under the impression a community of Doom modders would be helpful to them (ha).

You are totally right. They can have that impression.

Quote

Just saying, there’s zero reason to act like someone pissed in your Cheerios just because it bothers you they couldn’t educate themselves the same way you did.

It doesn't bother me. But if someone wants to create or mod for Doom, i rather help him to learn it himself instead of having it done for him. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Redneckerz

[CivilianM91]

10 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

It doesn't bother me. But if someone wants to create or mod for Doom, i rather help him to learn it himself instead of having it done for him. 

He asked three questions starting out. 
1. Is it possible

2. Where to start

3. If anyone was interested in joining a team for compensation 

 

How is that wanting someone to do the work for you? You’re taking some hefty leaps in logic to make your reaction fit my man.

[Redneckerz]

1 minute ago, CivilianM91 said:

He asked three questions starting out. 
1. Is it possible

2. Where to start

3. If anyone was interested in joining a team for compensation 

 

How is that wanting someone to do the work for you? You’re taking some hefty leaps in logic to make your reaction fit my man.

1. He would know the first one because he mentions Hedon, which is a GZDoom game.
2. This is preceded by the statement that he already started work on a game. Thus this question suggests the user would know a thing or two about modding really. This is then neglected by the proceeding question, which confirms the OP only has an idea and nothing more.
3. I recently need people who can do the arts, including weapons and ammo and something else. Does anyone want to join my team? I pay in advance if you wish. The program has just started; anyone with skills is welcomed. - He is asking here that someone else do a vast grunt of the work and then puts in a compensation in advance. These kinds of things are common place in the community and usually works when there is an impression up front. Based on that impression, people will be interested (or not) to participate.

In this situation there is no impression, there's just an idea and nothing more. If you want people to get excited enough for your project to work with you, you gotta give em something. And that something has to come from the OP, not the other way around.

 

If that impression was given, then there would be more enticement to participate.

[CivilianM91]

2 minutes ago, Redneckerz said:

1. He would know the first one because he mentions Hedon, which is a GZDoom game.
2. This is preceded by the statement that he already started work on a game. Thus this question suggests the user would know a thing or two about modding really. This is then neglected by the proceeding question, which confirms the OP only has an idea and nothing more.
3. I recently need people who can do the arts, including weapons and ammo and something else. Does anyone want to join my team? I pay in advance if you wish. The program has just started; anyone with skills is welcomed. - He is asking here that someone else do a vast grunt of the work and then puts in a compensation in advance. These kinds of things are common place in the community and usually works when there is an impression up front. Based on that impression, people will be interested (or not) to participate.

In this situation there is no impression, there's just an idea and nothing more. If you want people to get excited enough for your project to work with you, you gotta give em something. And that something has to come from the OP, not the other way around.

 

If that impression was given, then there would be more enticement to participate.

Okay neckerz. Just saying, I’m certainly not the first cat to accuse someone on Doomworld of a condescending attitude so at least consider the possibility somewhere down the line that, yes, you come off that way in relatively

benign circumstances.

I don’t think we’ll ever hit a point where we agree here so I’m just going to drop it like a bad habit and move on with my morning. If nothing else I hope he learned from your responses.