What Format should I edit in?

[Retro Dino]

I'm so confused. There's so many options, and IDK what to use. I use Hexen now, but I get told to use UDMF or BOOM. I started with Doom builder, then I moved to Ultimate Doom Builder (Which I LOVE). There's even more options then that though! It's pretty overwhelming. I wish there was one editor, and one program that worked with doing everything.

EDIT: I meant to say what FORMAT should I be editing in. I'm pretty happy with UDB.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Retro Dino
I'm a dumb dumb

[lubba127]

slade 3 is my editor of choice. the only other doom editor im aware of is xwe, but I havent used it.

[Retro Dino]

3 minutes ago, lubba127 said:

slade 3 is my editor of choice. the only other doom editor im aware of is xwe, but I havent used it.

Is Slade an editor or a platform?

[lubba127]

1 minute ago, Retro Dino said:

Is Slade an editor or a platform?

its a lump editor, so you can edit map info, add textures, sounds, music and code. a lot of extra zdoom scripting support, too. if youre still curious you can look it up on youtube, plenty of tutorials on how to use it there.

[snapshot]

Just stick with Ultimate Doom Builder and UDMF for now

3 minutes ago, Retro Dino said:

Is Slade an editor or a platform?

Slade is used when you want to add your own resources (textures, sounds...etc) it does have a built in map editor but I doubt many people use it, most just use UDB

Edited February 3, 2021 by sluggard

[Retro Dino]

Just now, sluggard said:

Stick with Ultimate Doom Builder and UDMF

Slade is used when you want to add your own resources (textures, sounds...etc) it does have a built in map editor but I doubt many people use it, most just use UDB

Yeah i'm not using any of my own resources, so I should stay away from Slade? What about the program I should use?

[lubba127]

1 minute ago, Retro Dino said:

Yeah i'm not using any of my own resources, so I should stay away from Slade? What about the program I should use?

if you plan on adding your own stuff in the future, or snoop around in wads by other people, definitely get it. 

but now im confused, what are you trying to do that tslade or doom builder wont do?

[snapshot]

UDB should be good enough if all you want is to create a map, then you can use Slade later on if you want to add more stuff, it's completely optional but it's still very handy for when you want to get into slightly more advanced things beyond just making the map.

Edited February 3, 2021 by sluggard

[Stupid Bunny]

11 minutes ago, lubba127 said:

the only other doom editor im aware of is xwe, but I havent used it.

 

XWE is ancient and unmaintained and had a frequent habit of corrupting my wads back when I still used it.  SLADE is great for lump editing and will be worth knowing once you start working with custom textures and music and stuff, since that's what you'll use to add it.  Stick to UDB for the actual mapping.

 

As for format...it all depends what you want to do, but Boom is a popular format because it's pretty flexible and customizable without being as overwhelmingly feature-rich as ZDoom/Hexen format, has wider compatibility, and maintains more of a "classic" feel.  It might be a good compromise if you're starting out.  Then again I've rarely deviated from mapping in good old Doom format myself, it can be a bit limiting but limits can be good for creativity sometimes by forcing you to think outside the box, and it's amazing what you can still do in a vanilla format.

[Gothic]

Slade3 is the only lump editor of choice as far as I know, everything else is outdated.

[Retro Dino]

8 minutes ago, StupidBunny said:

it can be a bit limiting but limits can be good for creativity sometimes by forcing you to think outside the box, and it's amazing what you can still do in a vanilla format.

That's true also. After I finish this WAD i'm gonna try out Boom. Do you know how it differs from Hexen? I found that when switching from Doom Builder to Ultimate Doom Builder I had to learn new keyboard shortcuts and stuff. I might have changed them awhile ago, but still.

[Kappes Buur]

The only map editing software which can do everything (like a swiss army knife) that I am aware of is Deepsea. But it has three drawbacks

• it is not free, ca $30 US
• does not support UDMF
• not up-to-date

To stay current with the editing tools there really are only two options

• Ultimate Doom Builder (map editor only)
• Slade3 (map editor and lump editor in one)

Other choices for map editors are

• DoombuilderX
• Eureka

 

Depending on what else you wish to incorporate into your maps, take a look at Tools and Resources.

Also, for creating good looking terrain check out jval's Terrain Generator

 

edit:

 

Which map format you should use, well, that depends what you want to add to your maps. There are some decent maps which were made for Doom format. However, if you want to add new weapons/monsters, eyecandy like dynamic lights and 3D floors and slopes, then map for UDMF.

 

I should not forget to mention another necessity of mapping, which is the nodebuilder.

In the case of mapping for GZDoom there is no need for that step, since GZDoom builds nodes on the fly. But for other ports I would use the

• Zokum nodebuilder.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Kappes Buur

[Stupid Bunny]

16 minutes ago, Retro Dino said:

That's true also. After I finish this WAD i'm gonna try out Boom. Do you know how it differs from Hexen?

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in very simplistic terms...

 

Boom has extended a lot of built-in Doom behaviors, meaning you can make things like lifts and doors open at the exact speed you want, set scrolling at different directions and speeds, have more control over light levels changing and things like that.  It also supports Heretic-style sectors that move the player which can be useful for voodoo dolls, and setting custom skies by level or even changing the sky in-level.  It will still play like Doom but you have more control over what stuff does.

 

Hexen/ZDoom format on the other hand is almost unlimited in its flexibility because it supports ACS scripting, meaning a single linedef can trigger a whole slew of actions.  It also supports triggering actions by item pickup, killing stuff, reaching a certain health level or basically whatever else you can dream up.  You can make NPCs, cinematic cutscenes, basically anything under the sun if you want to.  It also supports DECORATE, which allows you to create your own monsters, characters, items, and decorations with whatever properties you want them to have.  At its limit, you can make a game that's almost totally unrecognizable as having ever had anything to do with Doom.

Edited February 3, 2021 by StupidBunny

[ViolentBeetle]

The main difference between Doom and Boom is that Boom has fully customizable actions and several extra mechanics like translucent textures and moving floors, the latter widely expanding your ability to design levels due to being able to trigger multiple action lines at once. If you work in Doom format, you'll be stuck with only things ID originally felt like implementing. On the other hand, Doom will grant you broader compatibility. UDMF to my knowledge is even more versatile but also more restrictive in terms of ports.

Edited February 3, 2021 by ViolentBeetle

[wallabra]

34 minutes ago, sluggard said:

Just stick with Ultimate Doom Builder and UDMF for now

 

Ew, for learning Doom level design UDMF gets in the way a lot more than not. All that eye-candy and those features distract from the core of it. And, in my humble opinion, it's a lot more important to learn the layout and flow of your level before you get started with the visuals.

[Kappes Buur]

8 minutes ago, Retro Dino said:

...... After I finish this WAD i'm gonna try out Boom. Do you know how it differs from Hexen?

 

Boom is an extension of the original Doom2.

It provides an extended set of action specials but it is still rather limited.

 

Historically, mappers, wanting to do more stuff in their maps, suggested many new features to be added to the mapping experience and this is where ZDoom comes in. Further development of ZDoom resulted in GZDoom.

 

9 minutes ago, Retro Dino said:

.... I found that when switching from Doom Builder to Ultimate Doom Builder I had to learn new keyboard shortcuts and stuff. I might have changed them awhile ago, but still.

 

For the basic features the keystrokes are the same. Only for the advanced features are there new keystrokes. Due to the magnitude of new features this can become a bit of a problem. However, in time this will be second nature.

 

Print out a list of keystrokes from Help - Keyboard Shortcuts Reference.

[snapshot]

16 minutes ago, Gustavo6046 said:

Ew, for learning Doom level design UDMF gets in the way a lot more than not. All that eye-candy and those features distract from the core of it. And, in my humble opinion, it's a lot more important to learn the layout and flow of your level before you get started with the visuals.

Thing tags, named scripts, args bigger than 255, not having to resort to hacky ways just to do very simple tasks....etc I dunno, UDMF isn't all about visuals, actually most of it can be very easily skipped, you make it seem like it's very difficult to work with, it's very straight forward. I really don't feel like getting into another one of those pointless debates.

Edited February 3, 2021 by sluggard

[Retro Dino]

So ultimatley i'm better off just sticking with what I've been using? Unless later on I want to use customer textures and stuff, then I should change to Slade?

[snapshot]

Just now, Retro Dino said:

So ultimatley i'm better off just sticking with what I've been using? Unless later on I want to use customer textures and stuff, then I should change to Slade?

Pretty much, yeah

[Retro Dino]

Just now, sluggard said:

Pretty much, yeah

Okay, that's fine I guess. I've been learning a lot of work arounds for some of the stuff I've been wanting to do. For example: If I want to use a teleport and the texture doesn't line up, I use the texture RROCK5 with a green particle effect. It looks unique and work's just as well.

[Kappes Buur]

44 minutes ago, Retro Dino said:

...... If I want to use a teleport and the texture doesn't line up, I use the texture RROCK5 with a green particle effect. It looks unique and work's just as well.

 

The problem with Doom format, Boom format and Doom in Hexen format is that you have to pay strict attention to the 64x64 grid when placing floor textures.

 

In UDMF you can align floor textures to fit the floor layout, and interactively.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Kappes Buur

[Retro Dino]

1 minute ago, Kappes Buur said:

 

The problem with Doom format, Boom format and Doom in Hexen format is that you have to pay strict attention to the 64x64 grid when placing floor textures.

 

In UDMF you can align floor textures to fit the floor layout, and interactively.

Yeah, in a couple of my WAD's I found myself rearranging the floor so i can get the portal texture. It's alright sometimes, but sometimes it's not possible. That's why I just use my work around. Do you know why it won't let you move certain textures? I'm just curious.

[Omniarch]

I personally work exclusively in Doom format, simply because I enjoy working under restrictions. Helps bring out my creativity. I started out using UDMF, since it seemed the most convenient, but since I now almost exclusively use Crispy Doom and PrBoom+ that is no longer an option. Also, it is much easier to 'master' Doom format mapping, since there are fewer variables.

 

Personally, I'd recommend giving Doom format mapping a shot, and if you find it too restrictive, try Boom, and if that's too restrictive, then go for UDMF.

[BoxY]

7 minutes ago, Retro Dino said:

Yeah, in a couple of my WAD's I found myself rearranging the floor so i can get the portal texture. It's alright sometimes, but sometimes it's not possible. That's why I just use my work around. Do you know why it won't let you move certain textures? I'm just curious.

 

In vanilla/boom floor and ceiling flats are actually completely different from textures, they're raw data rather than doom format images and the map data doesn't store offsets or any other real properties for them, so they can't be aligned. I have no idea why it ended up being that way but it's the kind of thing that reminds you that Doom was built in 11 months.

[Azuris]

I'm also rather new in making my own Maps and i am doing it all in Doom(2) Format.

I'm obsessed with the Idea that i can run 3D Stuff i've done myself under DOS.

[Retro Dino]

19 minutes ago, Omniarch said:

Crispy Doom

Sorry, as soon as I see the word "Crispy" i think of McDonald's sprite lmao. Like I said above though I think i'm gonna stick with what I'm using for now. I'll try out these different formats later, but I'm honestly doing fine with what I'm using. There's just somethings that are inconvenient, but like I said I find work arounds.

[Retro Dino]

Just now, Azuris said:

I'm also rather new in making my own Maps and i am doing it all in Doom(2) Format.

I'm obsessed with the Idea that i can run 3D Stuff i've done myself under DOS.

Right, I love making WAD's. It fulfills that fantasy of wanting to be a video game designer. 

[Retro Dino]

17 minutes ago, BoxY said:

 

In vanilla/boom floor and ceiling flats are actually completely different from textures, they're raw data rather than doom format images and the map data doesn't store offsets or any other real properties for them, so they can't be aligned. I have no idea why it ended up being that way but it's the kind of thing that reminds you that Doom was built in 11 months.

Oh, well that sucks lol. Thanks for the answer! I didn't know Doom was built in 11 months. I thought Doom 2 was made in 11 months. Just a coincidence i guess. That's amazing though! 

[BoxY]

2 minutes ago, Retro Dino said:

Oh, well that sucks lol. Thanks for the answer! I didn't know Doom was built in 11 months. I thought Doom 2 was made in 11 months. Just a coincidence i guess. That's amazing though! 

I misremembered, it was 15 months :p

[Retro Dino]

6 minutes ago, BoxY said:

I misremembered, it was 15 months :p

How dare you feed me misinformation that I can't use daily.