Contemplating switching from Windows to Linux, got some questions.

[MFG38]

Let me kick this thread off with a short story about my weekend: I was visiting my parents, and during my visit, I had the pleasure of helping them with their 10+-year-old laptop. It'd gotten slow to the point where Google Chrome would take a solid minute to boot up and cause a hefty CPU spike doing so. According to my mother, running CCleaner on the thing did extremely little towards improving software performance. The only choice was to do a clean reinstall of Windows 10 on the machine, which I happily did. Well, happily up until a certain "roadblock", if it qualifies as one.

 

You see, Microsoft has apparently instituted a change into the Win10 installation process that basically forces you to log into a Microsoft account in order to be able to install the fucking OS. Back when I got my laptop and installed Win10 on it for the first (and so far only) time in 2017, you could skip it and create a simple local account instead. But that's not an option anymore - a Microsoft account is mandatory to even get past the installer. Granted, you can still change the login credentials into a local account from Win10's settings later on, but having to log into a Microsoft account in order to get to that option is all sorts of questionable.

 

In any case, ignoring that caveat, the story has a happy ending - giving the old machine a thorough wipe and a new life made it perform more or less like new. But it also made me wonder if I'm willing to continue using Win10 if this is the path it's going down. A mandatory Microsoft account login upon installing the OS is little more than an inconvenience if I'm going to essentially delete it in favor of a local account as soon as the installation finishes anyway. I'm honestly not entirely happy with the idea of having to create an account that I'm never going to use again, even just as a temporary workaround to install an OS.

 

It should be somewhat convenient, then, that I've actually researched Linux-based OSs for a decent while. Up until last weekend, it wasn't much of anything beyond a random curiosity, but following the events described above, I've actually begun contemplating making the switch from Windows to Linux with increased levels of seriousness. And that's where I hoped I'd get some insight from the Linux users of Doomworld, namely in the form of answers to the following questions (the important parts are bolded):

 

1. I have an external HDD with a bunch of important files backed up on it. I know that Mac can't read Windows-formatted HDDs and vice versa, presumably due to different file systems between the two OSs. However, with the multiple different file systems that Linux-based OSs offer, would the correct OS be able to read a HDD that's been formatted for Windows? The main reason I'm asking this question is because I have my music library backed up onto the external HDD, and I'm not exactly in the mood to rip/re-download almost 3,700 music tracks once I get a new PC (in case I do end up installing a Linux distro on it).
2. A lot of the software I use is Windows-based, and some of them don't officially support Linux. Now, I do know about WINE, but I do have some concerns relating to compatibility with using it, in particular DAWs and other music software. How reliable is WINE when it comes to running Windows-based software and external hardware, namely audio interfaces? Is it known to work more or less flawlessly or am I better off keeping a Win10 machine solely for music production purposes?
3. Finally, and second-most importantly, which Linux distro would you recommend for a beginner coming to Linux from Windows? If possible, I'd like a distro that comes with a software suite for doing basic tasks, such as text editing and Internet browsing. Being lightweight is less of a concern but naturally a bonus.

 

Thank you in advance.

[Martin Howe]

I made the switch ages ago  I'll spare you the rant as to the reasons :)

 

Firstly, if you have to install Windows, you have to wait until it gets to "connect to the internet", then lie "I don't have internet" (it's in the bottom-left corner). It will nag you to continue with "limited" setup, another lie from MICROS~1 (Google that if you're under 40 LOL), so then it's just like the previous times.

 

Linux can read pretty much every filesystem out there and has no trouble with NTFS or FAT32; I keep critical file backups on NTFS USB sticks and Linux can even write to them. There is an equivalent option to "Eject" for external media, for example Linux Mint calls it "Safely Remove Drive".

 

The most Windows-like distro is currently Linux Mint which is in part why I use it, as a better Windows than Windows. At one time I even has an XP skin and icons, but the default Cinnamon theme looks nice. On that point, your computer affects the choice of distro; although you can install different window managers and desktop software, normally each version of a distro is essentially designed with it in mind and each domes with some different built-in tools.

 

In your position I would go for Linux Mint, with Cinnamon desktop environment if you have a fast computer and good GFX card, or with Xfce if not. Plain Ubuntu with Xfce is also reasonably good, too.

 

For apps, Ubuntu versions of GZDoom work OK on Mint and SLADE is available as a flatpak. You will have trouble getting Ultimate DoomBuilder working; the Windows version on WINE is OK but a bit slow; for Linux you need to compile it yourself and there are several bugs.

 

That's the basics, anyway.

 

 

 

[The Almighty Egg]

but i cant play funny source games on Linux.

In my opinion switch to Linux if you want but always have a way to feel back to Windows in case you can't do something in there.

[Serum]

As someone that lives off of music production and is also a massive Linux enthusiast...

 

There is a decent struggle for Linux musicians, but it's not an impossible endeavor to make a powerful production system out of the OS. The issues are that WINE + DAWs = not a consistently great time. Also, VST support is far inferior to Mac or Windows. Alsa + Jack audio drivers take a little while to get used to and configure as well. Thankfully hardware/interface support is pretty much 10/10, but other than that it's just not the most compatible, beginner-friendly environment in the world. Like I said, though, it's far from impossible.

 

By the sounds of your post, your DAW of choice isn't Linux-native, so you have a couple of options. Your first option would be to hop to a DAW that is native. There are some very powerful pieces of native software. Bitwig, Reaper, and Renoise come to mind. These pieces of software are just as powerful as FL, Logic, Ableton, etc. Your other option is to go for the WINE route. Some programs work really well, but some don't. Because of this, I highly recommend that, before you scrap your current Windows OS, you install a virtualbox machine with a Linux distro so that you can test the waters with your DAW through Wine. That way if shit hits the fan, it's no big deal and you can just delete the virtual machine.

As for what distro to pick, it's honestly not a very big deal. The main difference you'll notice between distro to distro is merely the package management - e.g. what terminal command you use to install software. That's about it... This is because a lot of distros are, to end-users eyes, differentiated only by their software repositories and that's it. If I had to make a recommendation, I would say that you should go with a beginner Arch-based distro. Something like Manjaro. It comes with the software suite you mentioned, but more importantly, Arch-based distros have access to the Arch User Repository/AUR. This is, to many, by far the best repository in the entire Linux sphere. If there's a piece of Linux software, even if it's just a little github program from some college kid, it's on the AUR ready for you to install with 1 command in 10 seconds. Can't say the same for the Debian (Ubuntu, Pop OS, Mint, etc.) repositories. That's really just for conveniences' sake, though. That college kid's github program is still available on every other distro... So you do you. A lot of Linux users make huge deals out of distros, but they're not really huge deals.

 

For me personally, I used to be 100% an Ableton guy until I found Linux. No native Ableton on Linux, though... How tragic. I did the WINE thing, and hated it. I did dual booting to Windows just for Ableton, hated that too. But I just loved Linux so much... So, I learned Bitwig. It was 100% worth it, because Linux in every other capacity is unbeatable... It's so nice to run at 400mb idle memory instead of 4gb, lol. Good luck

Edited February 8, 2021 by Serum

[continuum.mid]

Martin Howe and Serum already gave good replies, but I'll give my two cents anyway, as another Linux enthusiast.

 

Linux is a great OS, especially if you value the freedom to control every aspect of your operating system. It is in my opinion the superior OS to Windows and MacOS in almost every respect, except for the lack of natively supported software and the fact that you have to install it.

 

If you need Windows-exclusive software, however, it will (usually) run better in Windows 10 than it will in WINE under Linux. And although it's fairly easy to use, there will be some things you have to learn (and unlearn) when using Linux in comparison to Windows. So do not take the decision to switch very lightly.

 

5 hours ago, MFG38 said:

I have an external HDD with a bunch of important files backed up on it. I know that Mac can't read Windows-formatted HDDs and vice versa, presumably due to different file systems between the two OSs. However, with the multiple different file systems that Linux-based OSs offer, would the correct OS be able to read a HDD that's been formatted for Windows? The main reason I'm asking this question is because I have my music library backed up onto the external HDD, and I'm not exactly in the mood to rip/re-download almost 3,700 music tracks once I get a new PC (in case I do end up installing a Linux distro on it).

Linux can read and write to any HDDs that Windows can; it supports the NTFS and FAT filesystems that Windows commonly uses. The only limitations on compatibility are that file permissions are not compatible (everything will have the same permissions) and exFAT might require a separate driver to be installed.

5 hours ago, MFG38 said:

A lot of the software I use is Windows-based, and some of them don't officially support Linux. Now, I do know about WINE, but I do have some concerns relating to compatibility with using it, in particular DAWs and other music software. How reliable is WINE when it comes to running Windows-based software and external hardware, namely audio interfaces? Is it known to work more or less flawlessly or am I better off keeping a Win10 machine solely for music production purposes?

I've had very few hardware compatibility issues. I'd say WINE can be relied upon about 75% of the time; you can expect most things to work, but an unfortunate amount of programs will not work, and there will be bugs. I suggest looking on Wine's AppDB to see what other users' experience has been with using your particular software. If something you absolutely need is not supported, you can always dual-boot (install alongside Windows) or use an alternative.

5 hours ago, MFG38 said:

Finally, and second-most importantly, which Linux distro would you recommend for a beginner coming to Linux from Windows? If possible, I'd like a distro that comes with a software suite for doing basic tasks, such as text editing and Internet browsing. Being lightweight is less of a concern but naturally a bonus. 

There are a ton of distros out there, and it can be quite overwhelming to pick just one. Linux Mint is a good suggestion to start with, since it is designed for new users and comes with the software most people expect to have. It's not the only choice for new users but it is one of the best.

Edited February 8, 2021 by northivanastan

[MFG38]

5 minutes ago, Serum said:

By the sounds of your post, your DAW of choice isn't Linux-native, so you have a couple of options. [...] Bitwig, Reaper, and Renoise come to mind.

 

REAPER actually happens to be my DAW of choice, and I'm aware of the fact that it has a native Linux build now. So I'd imagine that the transition is going to be relatively painless on that front. The VST compatibility does concern me ever so slightly, but as long as all of my main VSTs work problem-free, I'm happy. This was just the insight I needed, thanks! c:

 

6 minutes ago, northivanastan said:

although it's fairly easy to use, there will be some things you have to learn (and unlearn) when using Linux in comparison to Windows. So do not take the decision to switch very lightly.

 

I would expect as much - from my brief experience with MacOS back in school, it wasn't quite the same as Windows. And I certainly won't make the switch without thinking it through and seeing what suits me. I wouldn't have made this thread in the first place if I wasn't looking for insight from long-time Linux users, and going into it blind without careful consideration isn't something I see myself doing.

[Cacodemon345]

yabridge can be useful for using Windows-only VST plugins in Linux VST hosts; you got REAPER so you should be fine.

[Murdoch]

10+ year old laptop, yikes. Has the hard drive ever been changed? If not it's likely very worn out and likely a big factor in any performance problems you are having. A lighter OS might tax it less but it will still be a factor.

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

1. Yes but be careful.  It is possible for Linux to write filenames to the Windows filesystem that Windows can't deal with and then bad things can happen.  So be aware of what symbols are permissible in a Linux filename but not in a Windows one if you're planning to write to that partition from Linux (as a rule of thumb, watch out for anything that's not an alphanumeric symbol, though some are permissible).

2. WINE is a crapshoot, you pretty much have to "try it and see" (the database on WineHQ can help, but the entries are often outdated, probably in no small part due to it being a rather hostile site to try to contribute to.)  When it works, great, when it doesn't... you're pretty much back to Windows.  Native audio composing software for Linux exists, but tends not to be a beginner-friendly endeavor to set up and use due to things like PulseAudio/JACK conflict bullshit.  Experiment with it if you feel brave.

3. A few years ago that would be Mint and that may still be the case, although I stopped using it in part due to its compatibility with older systems beginning to fall by the wayside.  It's basically what Ubuntu used to be like before Ubuntu was ruined by boneheaded decisions.  My current distro personally for the past few years is MX, though.

[MFG38]

10 hours ago, Murdoch said:

10+ year old laptop, yikes. Has the hard drive ever been changed? If not it's likely very worn out and likely a big factor in any performance problems you are having. A lighter OS might tax it less but it will still be a factor.

 

Don't worry, it's my parents' laptop, not my own. And no, the hard drive has never been changed as far as I know. The machine did have to be taken to maintenance following similar issues once, but I don't know the details of what exactly the IT guys did to it.

[Murdoch]

9 minutes ago, MFG38 said:

 

Don't worry, it's my parents' laptop, not my own. And no, the hard drive has never been changed as far as I know. The machine did have to be taken to maintenance following similar issues once, but I don't know the details of what exactly the IT guys did to it.

 

Get an SSD in there. A 256GB is dirt cheap and will do wonders for the performance regardless of the OS. Doing major work on a ten year old hard drive that could die next week is really not time well spent.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Murdoch

[ax34]

22 hours ago, Martin Howe said:

... You will have trouble getting Ultimate DoomBuilder working; the Windows version on WINE is OK but a bit slow; for Linux you need to compile it yourself and there are several bugs.

For me Windows version under Wine is not slow but clipboard doesn't work, while native version crashes too often.

You can also try to use Microsoft .NET with Wine but currently Wine has a regression not allowing to install .NET.

Edited February 9, 2021 by ax34

[cybdmn]

On 2/8/2021 at 1:46 PM, MFG38 said:

I know that Mac can't read Windows-formatted HDDs and vice versa, presumably due to different file systems between the two OSs.

 

Mac can read every Windows formatted HDD, but can't write on NTFS due to license things. There are 3rd party drivers, which allows MacOS to write on NTFS partitions. But, as someone else here explained for linux, MacOS can not handle Windows ACLs too.

 

But anyways, the first thing you have to evaluate is, is there a linux version of the software you use, or is there an appropriate alternative software. Any OS is just the base for the stuff you are doing with your computer. I would not recommend hoping Wine is doing well on every occasion. Every update which make more apps running can break other compatibilities. The developers try hard, but it still is no reliable solution for every app or game.

[LexiMax]

All operating systems are bad in their own special way.

 

Desktop GNU/Linux's sin is that it is essentially one gigantic papercut masquerading as an operating system.  It's a great OS if you like tinkering with it, but if you need to get work done, there's an obvious lack of polish and things just never feel like they fit together very well.  If I had to rank them based on polish, Fedora wins, followed by Ubuntu LTS and the rest of the field isn't even close.

 

Once you manage to bandage over all of the papercuts it's a very serviceable OS, but the only reason I stuck it out was because I already knew what I was doing, and I'm not sure a new user would have the patience for such a thing.

Edited February 9, 2021 by AlexMax
Making it clear I'm talking about GNU/Linux and not other non-GNU userlands

[Cacodemon345]

For some reason the Linux desktop environments still obscure the Startup folders and there doesn't seem to be a good way of adding links to programs to such folders apart from adding them by hand.

[Cacodemon345]

4 hours ago, cybdmn said:

Mac can read every Windows formatted HDD, but can't write on NTFS due to license things. There are 3rd party drivers, which allows MacOS to write on NTFS partitions. But, as someone else here explained for linux, MacOS can not handle Windows ACLs too.

I believe Apple tried to make read-write access on NTFS partitions work well on macOS but failed, but it still somewhat "works" so they made it really hard to mount NTFS partitions with read-write access.

[seed]

On 2/8/2021 at 2:46 PM, MFG38 said:

You see, Microsoft has apparently instituted a change into the Win10 installation process that basically forces you to log into a Microsoft account in order to be able to install the fucking OS. Back when I got my laptop and installed Win10 on it for the first (and so far only) time in 2017, you could skip it and create a simple local account instead. But that's not an option anymore - a Microsoft account is mandatory to even get past the installer. Granted, you can still change the login credentials into a local account from Win10's settings later on, but having to log into a Microsoft account in order to get to that option is all sorts of questionable.

 

Since absolutely no-one addressed this:

 

This was an oversight in version 1909 (I think this was the one that accidentally hid the button to use a local account), but it has been corrected in 2004.

 

Just one of those things people liked to get scared of - but otherwise a big nothingburger. Local accounts could still be created by simply disconnecting from the internet.

[Martin Howe]

2 hours ago, seed said:

This was an oversight in version 1909 (I think this was the one that accidentally hid the button to use a local account), but it has been corrected in 2004.  Local accounts could still be created by simply disconnecting from the internet.

As I mentioned earlier, it's just a matter of waiting until it gets to "connect to the internet", then lie "I don't have internet" (it's in the bottom-left corner). It will nag you to continue with "limited" setup, another lie from MICROS~1 (Google that if you're under 40 LOL), so then it's just like the previous times.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Martin Howe

[smeghammer]

I switched to Ubuntu LTS about 4 years ago and never looked back.

 

There are certainly specific pros and cons to both Windows and Linux, and I guess to some extent it is personal prefs (for me, I actually like the Microsoft account thing - for example, it will store your Windows licence keys online against your account so you don't need to worry about re-entering them if you rebuild the PC).

 

For me, one of the big draws for Ubuntu is its ability to resurrect older kit - machines with Win7, or even earlier, can be brought up to date with a current Linux distro that is supported (Ubuntu 18.04LTS for another 18 months or so, and 20.04 for more). My experience is that Ubuntu will run better than Windows on the same kit. And it's free of course.

 

You can use WINE (mostly...) for Windows software, but you can generally find Linux software that does the same jobs.

 

Specifically for Doom-ey stuff - I have a full Doom dev stack on Ubuntu (SLADE, Eureka, ACC, native GZDoom, GZDoom drag-drop shortcut on desktop). [IIRC, I needed to build SLADE from source, though that may have changed now?]

 

The big caveat of course is that you do need to be a bit more confident with CLI stuff and have a bit of underlying knowledge of computer paradigms (filesystems, symlinks, mount points etc.) to get the most out of it.

 

 

[Aaron Blain]

I can only reaffirm what everyone has said above.

 

For me, it was a scratched Windows recovery disk. I had been thinking about Linux for a while, and when I got stuck in mid-reinstall I said, "You know what? Fuck it." And never looked back.

 

I use a variant of Ubuntu with a lighter desktop and basic software, called Lubuntu. It was the lightest fully-featured ready-to-go distro I could find. Works great on my midrange Asus laptop from 2011-ish.

 

I do voiceover, but all I need is Audacity and a handful of other little things.

[smeghammer]

On 2/12/2021 at 5:39 PM, Aaron Blain said:

Audacity

 

Which is also free, and damn useful too...

[cracky-bracky]

You can avoid the MS account block by forcibly unplugging the internet from the machine.

But yeah, fuck windows 10. Windows 7 is perfect with some AV.

[LexiMax]

9 hours ago, cracky-bracky said:

Windows 7 is perfect with some AV

 

From what I gather, AV is not worth paying for and a combination of UBlock Origin and keeping your system up to date is a more effective means of preventing infection than Norton.

Edited April 2, 2021 by AlexMax

[Martin Howe]

I have similar views about Windows 7 and stuck with it as long as possible, but MICROS~1 kept making things that depend on internet services not work anymore even if they worked locally (e.g., Media Player's album info lookup) and just generally kept messing things up. I was one of the lucky ones who grew up with Unix at uni in the late 80s, was horrified by Windows and DOS when I started in the working world in the 90s, and had enough tech know-how to jump ship to Linux when 7 & 10 became too rubbish to use every day in the 2010s.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Martin Howe

[seed]

On 4/1/2021 at 10:07 PM, cracky-bracky said:

You can avoid the MS account block by forcibly unplugging the internet from the machine.

 

Old news, also irrelevant, as this was fixed a few versions ago.

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

Do it, I switched to Linux like a couple months ago and I love it. It's worthy.

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

On 2/8/2021 at 6:46 AM, MFG38 said:

Finally, and second-most importantly, which Linux distro would you recommend for a beginner coming to Linux from Windows? If possible, I'd like a distro that comes with a software suite for doing basic tasks, such as text editing and Internet browsing. Being lightweight is less of a concern but naturally a bonus.

I started with Ubuntu, I read it's focused on home users. But, like @northivanastan some time ago, Mint is a good option too.

[jupiter_ex]

there's an ubuntu version packed full with multimedia creation software (DAWs, drummachines, synths, sequencers, effects, jacks, etc, and also video and image editing tools) called ubuntu studio. Or at least there was in '07 when I switched to linux. (oh, it still exists).

 

On 2/8/2021 at 10:54 AM, Eggman07 said:

but i cant play funny source games on Linux.

Is that true? I've seen steam on linux refuses to install any source-powered games. Is that an engine limitation? I'd love me to have some Cry of fear, EYE divine cybermancy, Vampire bloodlines, on my linux box

[Stupid Bunny]

I have installed Linux on four of the computers I’ve owned now, although always kept it alongside Windows so I have access to both. I like Arch Linux because I like tinkering and building my OS from the ground up but it’s also a pain in the nuts sometimes for the same reason and for you I’d go with Mint or Ubuntu for sure. Any Linux distro presents the same problem of lack of support for a lot of software, especially proprietary stuff, and I’ve had mixed success with WINE (looking at you, UDB).  Support for NTFS exists but I recall I had to do rejiggering and install packages to be able to write to NTFS partitions. I don’t remember any specific problems from there, although I had a big ol’ shared partition that both Windows and Arch were mounting at boot which caused other annoyances especially when I’d hibernate and forget which OS I’d hibernated from.  

[ax34]

4 minutes ago, StupidBunny said:

... and I’ve had mixed success with WINE (looking at you, UDB)...

Wait for Wine 6.6 (it will have relevant fix), then install .NET 4.7.2 with Winetricks, and now you can run UDB. Also i'm unsure but maybe it's necessary to install corefonts with Winetricks too.