Banned from Zdoom forum for using copyrighted material?

[ZDL_800]

Hello and hope you are good.

 

Basically just tried to login to the Zdoom forum and they have banned my account for 2 months for copyright material with no warning or anything, just outright banned my account and removed our works?

 

I was Ai neural upscaling textures, the mod was there on the site for a year with no issues.

 

Can I ask, does anyone know to contact the Zdoom admins because I really need my account back and would like to know what's going off here?

 

Thanks again and hope to speak soon.

[Edward850]

Given you have provided no details or even account name (DOOM_X900 does not match any user on ZDF), it's not obvious in the slightest as to what you're talking about.

At a guess given the timing, do you mean this? https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=71533

Quote

Long story short - Brutal Hexen and Brutal Heretic were mods that were offered on this forum by the user ZDL_800 not too long ago.

Brutal Hexen was particularly popular, and so due to this, I felt the need to create a post about what happened.

ZDL_800 sent a user a PM which was then reported to us by said user basically admitting that Brutal Hexen had copyright violations. What really got him in trouble though, was the fact that this was paywalled and there was no "free" version.

He said flat out in that PM that he knew it would get him banned if we found out, which is another reason for the ban. This negates any warning or slap-on-the-wrist we could have given if he simply hadn't known.
 

ZDL_800 wrote:

Quote

I do apologize but I cannot provide the MegaWAD on this forum I'm afraid, my account will be banned and I cant take the risk its too important to me, this forum means a lot to me.

This is a liability issue for us. I am taking this action to protect the forum and its users. So if you want to know where it went - that's what happened. Sorry for the inconvenience. Brutal Heretic has been pulled pending an investigation for possible copyright violations, but I might be able to restore that one as long as it keeps its resource usage to Heretic assets.

EDIT: Brutal Heretic seems to be okay, so it has been restored.

For numerous reasons, you cannot offer to sell mods. You need a license to be able to do that and ZDF rightly doesn't want to be responsible for that at all.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Edward850

[ZDL_800]

Hello and thanks for the reply.

 

This is what makes this really strange, allow me to explain.

 

1. The admin states 'basically admitting that Brutal Hexen had copyright violations'

 

This is false information, Brutal Hexen is a mod which requires the Hexen WAD just like any other mod.

 

2. The admin states 'What really got him in trouble though, was the fact that this was paywalled and there was no "free" version.'

 

Again false information, the mod was available on the site free to download, users were asking for a custom MegaWAD which requires the DLC WAD.

 

3. The admin states 'He said flat out in that PM that he knew it would get him banned if we found out'

 

This is again false information, I clearly wrote this on the thread main page but they have deleted it, you require a legit Hexen.WAD and legit HexenDLC.WAD to play the combined Hexen + DLC campaign in coop!

 

They already said to me not to send out the custom MegaWAD months ago and I have not sent anything in any PM I clearly said in the PM, I would be banned so I cannot send it, so they end up banning me for stating I cant send the MegaWAD, this is illogical.

 

I know 100% the admins read all PM so this is what I find strange? I clearly wrote that in the PM that I cannot send the MegaWAD.

 

Even though you require all legit Hexen and DLC WADS to play, the admins didn't like me using their forum to send that MegaWAD, I did as they stated months ago, never sent the MegaWAD on Zdoom from that point onwards and they wrote as if they never knew? That's what strange to me.

 

Seeing as the admin has created a public thread about me basically completely got the wrong end of the stick, banned for 2 months and locked me from Zdoom, no reply from the admin, no chance to speak with then, I have done everything they have requested.

 

Banned from Zdoom for sending a message which I 100% knew the admin would see, that 'I cannot send you the MegaWAD or I will be banned' as the admins stated to me months ago.

 

This is an unjustified action from the admin.

 

Thankyou for your time and hope to speak soon. 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by DOOM_X900

[Dark Pulse]

16 minutes ago, DOOM_X900 said:

1. The admin states 'basically admitting that Brutal Hexen had copyright violations'

 

This is false information, Brutal Hexen is a mod which requires the Hexen WAD just like any other mod.

 

2. The admin states 'What really got him in trouble though, was the fact that this was paywalled and there was no "free" version.'

 

Again false information, the mod was available on the site free to download, users were asking for a custom MegaWAD which requires the DLC WAD.

Long story short: Even if Brutal Hexen requires Hexen and Deathkings to run, if it contains copyrighted material in and of itself, that's still copyright infringement.

 

You may not be violating Hexen's copyrights by requiring the IWADs, but you'd be violating the copyright of whatever else it contains that someone else owns and you do not have permission to use.

 

So even if, say, you need the IWADs to run it, if (for example) your soundtrack is now Megadeth MP3s, that still counts as copyright infringement - of Megadeth, not Hexen. That would still get pulled.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Dark Pulse

[ZDL_800]

Hello and thanks for the reply.

 

The mod has no copyrighted material and the admins already know this but announcing in that public thread that I knew Brutal Hexen has copyright violations, that is 100% false information.  

[Dark Pulse]

1 hour ago, DOOM_X900 said:

Hello and thanks for the reply.

 

The mod has no copyrighted material and the admins already know this but announcing in that public thread that I knew Brutal Hexen has copyright violations, that is 100% false information.  

So you're claiming:

1. The mod has no extra copyrighted material, but...
2. You also claim you can't share your version since it has copyrighted material.

From what I gather, it's pretty simple: Your MegaWAD/mod contains, in part, AI upscaling of the Hexen textures. You require Hexen/Deathkings to have it playable. Nominally speaking this is technically infringement (just like mods that, say, fix the monster sprites or do similar things for Doom are). In practice this is usually overlooked by the community as long as it doesn't turn into a playable Doom game on its own (although id/Bethesda could certainly C&D it if they so chose).

 

However, the bigger issue is that apparently it was behind some kind of paywall. This means that to get the mod, people would have to pay. Paying for mods is a HUGE no-no, and merely requiring the Hexen/Deathkings WADs does not make it any more okay to charge for content that you do not, personally, own the copyright to. You'd be 100% fine if the mod was 100% free to have (unless id/Bethesda demanded it be taken down), or if all the content within it was 100% your own (at which point you wouldn't even need the Hexen/Deathkings IWADs), but it's not. Basically it means that now that the staff are aware more fully of what it contains, keeping a link up to it means that they are essentially held liable if id/Bethesda chose to get lawyers involved.

 

To protect themselves, they got rid of your links, and tossed you out.

 

Basically the combination of those two things - content from the game itself (even though it's AI upscales, it's still content from the game), PLUS the fact there was no way to get it without money changing hands, essentially forced their hand - users were forced to pay for a mod that included AI upscaled textures from the original game, and you acknowledged that it was those same textures, just AI upscaled.

 

That doesn't automatically negate copyright infringement simply because you put it through some AI upsamplers. If I go and scale up the McDonalds logo to 8k resolution via AI upscaling, I can't claim that as something that's my own invention. And I most definitely can't start selling burgers wrapped in papers with that logo.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Dark Pulse

[roadworx]

you got banned cuz you're trying to sell a mod ya dunderhead

[Dubbag]

You're lucky you weren't sued.

[cybdmn]

7 hours ago, Dark Pulse said:

Long story short: Even if Brutal Hexen requires Hexen and Deathkings to run, if it contains copyrighted material in and of itself, that's still copyright infringement.

 

You may not be violating Hexen's copyrights by requiring the IWADs, but you'd be violating the copyright of whatever else it contains that someone else owns and you do not have permission to use.

 

 

That alone could not be the reason for the ban. Really, if using copyrighted material is a reason for a ban, half of the mods there have to be banned. Look how many WADs using textures and stuff from other games, Tormentor667's bestiary is full of modified sprites from various games. Back in the 90ies some of the most appreciated WADs used tons of textures from Heretic and Hexen.

Even some of the WADs id added to the Unity ports had to be cleaned before release.

[MFG38]

7 hours ago, DOOM_X900 said:

1. The admin states 'basically admitting that Brutal Hexen had copyright violations'

 

This is false information, Brutal Hexen is a mod which requires the Hexen WAD just like any other mod.

 

That's... not how copyright works. Whether it requires the IWAD to run or not, as long as there's copyrighted material in your mod, you have effectively no right to sell it for real money.

 

27 minutes ago, cybdmn said:

That alone could not be the reason for the ban. Really, if using copyrighted material is a reason for a ban, half of the mods there have to be banned.

 

The problem here isn't the use of copyrighted content in and of itself. It's the fact that this guy was trying to sell their mod that uses such content without permission or license from the parties holding those copyrights.

Edited February 20, 2021 by MFG38

[ZDL_800]

Hello.

 

I wasn't trying to sell the mod for the last time, its the same formula as the Brutal Heretic which guess what, she blocked aswell with the powertrip shes always on.

 

Then she edited the thread and said Heretics I guess is ok, its always guessing with that admin, couldn't even be bothered to verify what this user has said.

 

You said I got banned for Ai upscaling textures, well the Brutal Heretic has the HD textures aswell so again, this makes no sense.

 

I've wrote to the admin that if she does not reply to me in 24hours I will be making a public statement about her.

 

Would you like to know the real reason I was set upon and banned and my works removed? Well follow me buckaroos, as we go straight down the rabbit hole.

 

She personally has sent me the most aggressive, abusive and frankly threatening personal messages to me in the past, like quote 'Your a narcissistic twat' and 'Your arrogant' and 'It'll be the last thing you say'' and 'Mark my words you will be banned' and 'Your selfish' oh right Rachael I'm selfish? Creating Zdoom content for the community with my time?

 

Absolutely disgusting attitude from her its always the same lies and deception, I've always wondered why she is so aggressive towards me, I understand now, if this is true, we live in a sad world indeed.

 

Also we are talking about 2 completely different projects.

 

1. BRUTAL HEXEN is free and always has been but she states I tried to sell the mod which is total lies!

 

2. MEGAWAD - This is the mod that users were asking for after Zdoom admins told me not to distribute the MEGAWAD'<< on the forum.

 

Read my message from Rachael, I said I CANNOT PROVIDE THE MEGAWAD ON THE FORUM I WILL BE BANNED.

 

So she bans me anyway typical she knew I wouldn't bite to her disgusting threatening private messages sent to me. So just because shes an admin does NOT give her the right to abuse the Zdoom community like treating us like bloody pawns and the queen in the ivory tower.

 

Anyone reading this and has downloaded Brutal Hexen, please reply here if you can, you will see Doomworld community that the mod was ALWAYS FREE TO DOWNLOAD.

 

I HAVE NEVER TRIED TO SELL BRUTAL HEXEN, she has no evidence apart from her accusations publicly stated like some kind of hitpiece.

 

Thankyou for your time and hope to speak soon.

 

PS I changed my name, I was using an old mod name here from years ago, x900 was my first Doom1 weapon mod.

Edited February 20, 2021 by ZDL_800

[ZDL_800]

I've had so many messages and emails sent to me regarding some real twisted stuff from the admin, I will in 24hours be writing my public statement.

 

 

[Alter]

6 minutes ago, ZDL_800 said:

I've had so many messages and emails sent to me regarding some real twisted stuff from the admin, I will in 24hours be writing my public statement.

 

 

I look forward to reading this.

[Redneckerz]

23 minutes ago, ZDL_800 said:

Would you like to know the real reason I was set upon and banned and my works removed?

No. Because that is a discussion between you, her, and any other ZDoom staff member.

 

20 minutes ago, ZDL_800 said:

I've had so many messages and emails sent to me regarding some real twisted stuff from the admin, I will in 24hours be writing my public statement.

That reads like an attempt to defamation that you want to air out.

 

Why not address the admin directly? PM me if you want that instead.

 

Any other public laundry that gets aired out is just adding fuel to a flame that is in reality nothing but a puff of smoke.

13 minutes ago, Alter said:

I look forward to reading this.

Not another Doom Drama chapter that could be resolved if parties respond directly to eachother and not, like the OP, use the public as some kind of graffiti wall.

[leodoom85]

Nice. More drama that could be avoided by doing the right thing. Looking forward to that as well............

[Doom64hunter]

"Selling" is the wrong term. The "Megawad", whatever that contains, is behind a £3 paywall on his Patreon. Probably still illegal though.

 

I do find the handling of this situation on ZDoom quite strange though. Why hide the thread? Just makes it harder for people outside the loop to understand what's going on.

[Doomkid]

I've prepared my public statement on the matter:

 

This is funny lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but seriously calm down and don't talk shit about admins of other Doom forums here, we frankly don't give a shit and if anything it makes you look like a problem just waiting to happen. If you'd just wanted to provide your mod here (for free) and see how it went over on this side of the tracks that would have been fine - but you're using DW as your place to talk shit about ZDoom admins and making these weird threats about "releasing public statements" or whatever. Just stop and start fresh. Pop a cork in it and lie low for a week or two so everyone forgets this embarrassing little outburst.

 

DW (not idgames) is generally pretty lax about sharing links to wads that just happen to use "copyrighted" textures from other games. I guess ZDoom is more strict about that kind of thing, but either way this thread was the wrong way to go about things.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Doomkid

[NoXion]

Paywalled mod? No bueno. I thought that there might be more to this story than just upscaling textures.

[ZDL_800]

Hello and thanks for the replies.

 

With the highest respect, she has wrote a defamation claim herself in public, right there on the forum.

 

I have logged into Zdoom, presented with a ban notice, I cannot access the forum, this is either 1 of the 2.

 

1. Miscommunication with the user and admin because she states that I tried to sell the mod. She hasn't even verified this, the admin could easily just download the mod on the Zdoom forum herself.

 

2. Deception, she already told me to not send the MegaWAD months ago, the admin states that I was trying to hide this from her? If you kindly read the quote from my private message, it clearly states 'I cannot send the MegaWAD on this forum or I will be banned'

 

I have tried to email to boardadmin on the ban Zdoom page and no reply what so ever I'm afraid.

 

The admin removed the mod page completely which has been there for years, nothing has changed apart from me NOT I repeat NOT sending users the MegaWAD.

 

Who ever I sent the message too yesterday must have reported my account because 'they' didn't get my old link to the MegaWAD when the previous users on the thread all was manually sent the MegaWAD.

 

I really don't want any trouble with anyone but writing such a hostile hitpiece on me stating false information draws the line.

 

Thanks again.

[Doomkid]

Doomworld isn't a public appeals court dude, that's the message I was trying to get across to you. Problems with ZDoom administration are not DW's problem.

 

Again, if you had just wanted to release your mod over here, that in itself wouldn't have been a big deal. It would earn you a warning at most if copyrighted material/a paywall was found, but apparently ZDoom is more strict ..and frankly, there's clearly more than meets the eye going on beneath the surface as well. I just don't see how it's DW's responsibility or our business at all really. What are DW mods supposed to do, go to ZDoom and finger-wag at them for how they run their forums..?

[ZDL_800]

PS.

 

The MegaWAD, which is not the Brutal Hexen mod which she states I tried to sell, utter lies.

 

The MegaWAD is a mod which requires a legit Hexen.WAD and HexenDLC.WAD and it combines both Hexen and the DLC into one campaign all working with stats in coop! Its a blast!

 

Its just a mod, I wasnt selling anything, yes its on Patreon if you would support us, theres a benefit which is the mod.

 

I clearly wrote on ZDoom that, 'You can use console commands to stream to the DLC but please note, we have modified the DLC' which has more enemies spawned for higher levels.

 

Stop saying that I tried to sell the mod because this is outlandish claims and nothing more.

 

Anyone who downloaded Brutal Hexen can verify this.

 

This is absolute nonsense. I need to talk with the admin ASAP to stop this maddness.

 

Thanks again,

[Doom64hunter]

@ZDL_800 Can you explain this then?

 

 

It clearly says in the top 2 tiers, "full access to custom WADS, MegaWADS", therefore they are behind a paywall.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Doom64hunter

[Nine Inch Heels]

Dude... Nobody here cares... and DoomWorld has nothing to do with ZDF... in fact, Rachael, Rachelle, or however the hell she calls herself, is banned on these very forums...

 

So... Stop bringing this shit here... It's the wrong place...

[NoXion]

Looks like a paywall to me. You done fucked up, @ZDL_800

[dmslr]

6 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Rachael, Rachelle, or however the hell she calls herself, is banned on these very forums

May I ask why she has been banned?

[Nine Inch Heels]

Just now, dmslr said:

May I ask why she has been banned?

No

[ZDL_800]

I do apologize Doomworld community.

 

I just needed to say my part regarding the deception from the Zdoom admin.

 

No need for the public hitpiece on me regardless, writing on a public forum utter lies again draws the line.

 

So sorry I had to say this here.

 

Please forgive my actions.

 

PS Anyone who still believe the claims against me, just a little research will provide the answer. Yes I understand 100% no-one gives a shit but I do give a shit about people, if they are saying these claims in public then I just require to say mine.

 

Thanks again.

[dmslr]

Just now, Nine Inch Heels said:

No

Understandable. (no)

[NoXion]

1 minute ago, ZDL_800 said:

I do apologize Doomworld community.

 

I just needed to say my part regarding the deception from the Zdoom admin.

 

No need for the public hitpiece on me regardless, writing on a public forum utter lies again draws the line.

 

So sorry I had to say this here.

 

Please forgive my actions.

 

PS Anyone who still believe the claims against me, just a little research will provide the answer. Yes I understand 100% no-one gives a shit but I do give a shit about people, if they are saying these claims in public then I just require to say mine.

 

Thanks again.

You neglected to mention your paywall in the OP. Who's being deceptive?

[seed]

12 minutes ago, Doom64hunter said:

@ZDL_800 Can you explain this then?

 

 

It clearly says in the top 2 tiers, "full access to custom WADS, MegaWADS", therefore they are behind a paywall.

 

And with this, I think this discussion is over.

 

Yes, the two tiers very much state, clear as day, that they grant access to wads. Unless those are also available free-of-charge, outside of a paywall, either there or elsewhere, this is not a legal thing to do. There is just nothing else to say.

 

Selling mods is illegal. Accepting donations from fans and giving them unique benefits is fine, but outright blocking permission to the content like this is not allowed.