Metallica get a taste of their own medicine at Blizzcon

[Sunnyfruit]

On the good old war between corporations and Napster/KaZaA/LimeWire/Bittorrent, let me add that CDs are overpriced. Who were going to buy Metallica albums? Teens depending on their parents' money or young adults with a still precarious income. Nevermind the fact that when you were buying an artist's album you only knew about the two songs which made it to the radio and weren't sure about the quality of the rest, which made the buy a pretty stressful one. In the end, everybody were going to try to save their bucks and go for the singles, the most absolute scam of it all.

Unless you're invested in the music industry you're going to keep that hard-earned cash for another overpriced passion and you're going to just use a tape or your 56k to calm down that itch about that one song you liked. Napster didn't so much harm the music industry that corporates were openly relying on that biological need to hear that one hook once more like a bunch of state-protected dealers, which made you feel not-so-guilty about double-crossing them. Thievery? Yeah sure, whatever.

[Eurisko]

Twitch has been coming down hard on streamers using licensed music so they are gone be dodging the trap of doing the same thing and the resulting backlash. 

But also as someone who remembers the Napster wars this felt pretty good. 

[smeghammer]

8 hours ago, Gokuma said:

Back to the Meeting!  Back to the Meeting!

That's "Disposable Heroes" from Master of Puppets:

 

Fucking epic song!

 

 

[jazzmaster9]

The people who use this DMCA mess to bang on Metallica for the Napster lawsuit, most likely dont know what the lawsuit was about in the first place.

 

But tape trading was a thing they did in the past, but suddenly napster distributing their songs is wrong??

 

There is a clear difference with copying released content and copying unreleased demos.

 

When the No Life till leather Demos circulated in the tape trading scene its because it was released with Metallica's consent.

 

I disappear was not officially released when it circulated.

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by jazzmaster9

[Sunnyfruit]

15 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

The people who use this DMCA mess to bang on Metallica for the Napster lawsuit, most likely dont know what the lawsuit was about in the first place.

 

But tape trading was a thing they did in the past, but suddenly napster distributing their songs is wrong??

 

There is a clear difference with copying released content and copying unreleased demos.

 

When the No Life till leather Demos circulated in the tape trading scene its because it was released with Metallica's consent.

 

I disappear was not officially released when it circulated.

 

 

 

 

Just to be clear I agree with that and I'm not talking about that, that's why I precised corporations vs. Napster, not Metallica. Distributing unreleased work is wrong on many levels and as an artist myself (like most people on this website I think) I would feel this amounts to a breach of privacy.

[smeghammer]

I think a few people have mentioned this above - the difference between when we were teens and now as adults. I think attitude, certainly for me, has definitely changed.

 

I was early 20's when I used KaZaa etc. and when the whole Metallica thing broke I thought what a bunch of dicks for killing off our access to music. As I have got older, I now think that Metallica probably did the correct thing. That's not to say that personally, some of the Metallica members may not be particularly pleasant individuals, but as a band, they are of course entitled to be paid for their work - ripped MP3 file sharing is basically stealing, let's face it.

 

However... when I was younger, I had bugger all money and the use of file sharing enabled me to listen to a load of music I otherwise would never have heard. I am certain that I have bought many CDs I would not otherwise have bought were it not for me hearing it when I was younger. 

 

Did Metallica deserve this? Absolutely not. Having their own performance fucked over 'just in case' is absolutely not on. If I were them I'd probably sue the channel for it (live streaming is the only way most bands can gig during COVID lockdown). You might say karma is a bitch, but it was 20 years ago.

[seed]

1 hour ago, Sunnyfruit said:

On the good old war between corporations and Napster/KaZaA/LimeWire/Bittorrent, let me add that CDs are overpriced. Who were going to buy Metallica albums? Teens depending on their parents' money or young adults with a still precarious income.

 

Or just fans spending money on their favorite things I guess... I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this.

 

I agree that CDs are slowly starting to become overpriced though, if they aren't already, most of the albums in my collection were fairly expensive, but I guess production, all that plastic, etc. costs at the end of the day. Digital format is nicer and also offers instant delivery, but it isn't quite the same as holding the album in your hands and reading through the booklet and seeing the band pictures.

 

1 hour ago, Sunnyfruit said:

Unless you're invested in the music industry you're going to keep that hard-earned cash for another overpriced passion

 

Ouch, now this, I could really feel man.

 

Seems my passions are getting more and more expensive yet my money meter is stuck at 0... cruel twist of fate indeed...

[Sunnyfruit]

59 minutes ago, smeghammer said:

However... when I was younger, I had bugger all money and the use of file sharing enabled me to listen to a load of music I otherwise would never have heard. I am certain that I have bought many CDs I would not otherwise have bought were it not for me hearing it when I was younger.  

 

I would just want to compare this to Nintendo's hunt for people who dare emulate the IPs they ripped from videogame developpers back in the 80s. Whenever they admit it or not in public, would there be an indie boom like there is today if developpers of today didn't have access to a huge log of games emulated or pirated that built their standards and skill through observation and comparison?

Metallica is a client of corporations just like we are. They are protecting their income and it's understandable and deserved, but I think it's a problem of the business model before anything. People who pirate games and claim on 4**** and Twitter that it's Great Justice because the dev is an ass or whatever are scum. But the people from yesterday were in a totally different situation which I think is getting adressed in a better way today.

While I'm at it Twitch and DMCAs are another problem entirely, as the amount of data circulating on the internet is absolutely impossible to control and assholes starting around 2013 realize they could both rip off artists or even sully their reputation by manipulating and/or modifying their work. While being SFW, Youtube didn't start a "Kids" section for no reason.

 

edit: for those who don't know about this story: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/10/youtube-disturbing-kids-videos-dark-peppa-pig-children

I guess there are funnay people video-editing swastikas into Ariana Grande videos somewhere in the name of God-protected Free Speech™ or whatever, and you must use bots and mass measures to avoid those grand scale scenarios, because the Internet was built on the idea that the individual was gifted with things like reason and civilization, which unfortunately isn't the case. Twitch probably didn't expect its bots to be that zealous, and user outrage is less dangerous than corporate outrage.

 

 

46 minutes ago, seed said:

Or just fans spending money on their favorite things I guess... I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this.

I meant that the business model wasn't tailored to the clientele and their needs. As a young teen with one bill a month I wasn't going to feel concerned by the corporate whining about how there is enough money in my imaginary white-collar salary to buy ten albums a month.

I just don't really follow how the corporate marketing especially at the time was targeting the young and the reckless yet kept assuming you as the client to be the responsible pater familias.

 

46 minutes ago, seed said:

 

most of the albums in my collection were fairly expensive, but I guess production, all that plastic, etc. costs at the end of the day. Digital format is nicer and also offers instant delivery, but it isn't quite the same as holding the album in your hands and reading through the booklet and seeing the band pictures. 

 

Yes, it's a collection item. If you want music without getting invested you'll just keep the radio or streaming services, which took the place of P2P. I saw complains about how streaming was squeezing artists but the truth is people would rather pay for a stream than an album.

 

46 minutes ago, seed said:

Seems my passions are getting more and more expensive yet my money meter is stuck at 0... cruel twist of fate indeed...

 

You'll get there eventually

Spoiler

but by the time you make a comfortable income your only buying criteria will be nostalgia :(

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Sunnyfruit

[seed]

27 minutes ago, Sunnyfruit said:

I meant that the business model wasn't tailored to the clientele and their needs. As a young teen with one bill a month I wasn't going to feel concerned by the corporate whining about how there is enough money in my imaginary white-collar salary to buy ten albums a month.

I just don't really follow how the corporate marketing especially at the time was targeting the young and the reckless yet kept assuming you as the client to be the responsible pater familias.

 

Woah there richboi, 10 albums a month 😉 ? I was lucky if I could buy one every three months or so, and only from whatever I was left with after covering my basic and more important needs. It's a long story...

 

But I see what you mean there, never understood how this catering to a young and reckless audience worked - while simultaneously expecting you were "responsible adults". Crock of rubbish I guess.

 

27 minutes ago, Sunnyfruit said:

Yes, it's a collection item. If you want music without getting invested you'll just keep the radio or streaming services, which took the place of P2P. I saw complains about how streaming was squeezing artists but the truth is people would rather pay for a stream than an album.

 

I guess that boils down to what kind of access and catalogue you get for your money.

 

Personally, buying an album or just sticking to YT channels that stream albums and artists I like is way more advantageous than a streaming service per se, since most of the stuff I like simply isn't there, or it is, but it's lame as heck.

 

Which raises another issue: overabundance of streaming services. Now everyone wants their own streaming service for whatever-they-do. Reminds me of content creators, or most of them, also having a Patreon for whatever. What I'm getting at, is that the need to always spend more on something is ever-present, but money never is infinite.

 

27 minutes ago, Sunnyfruit said:

 

  Hide contents

but by the time you make a comfortable income your only buying criteria will be nostalgia :(

 

 

No, nostalgia has never played any role in this, that's not how I work, at all.

 

But there always seems to be something I might want, and that something tends to be way out of my reach. It's a very annoying sentiment that just won't go away...

Edited February 21, 2021 by seed

[Gokuma]

2 hours ago, smeghammer said:

That's "Disposable Heroes" from Master of Puppets:

 

Fucking epic song!

 

 

 

Nah, it was "Of Wolf and Man" on the Black Album like intacowetrust said.   Now I finally known that it's "Back to the meaning."  I always heard it as "Back to the meeting" since I heard it in the 90's.

[smeghammer]

34 minutes ago, Gokuma said:

 

Nah, it was "Of Wolf and Man" on the Black Album like intacowetrust said.   Now I finally known that it's "Back to the meaning."  I always heard it as "Back to the meeting" since I heard it in the 90's.

 

Haha! Yes! it does doesn't it!

 

You are right about "Of Wolf and Man". I'm more familiar with 'Puppets, and the Disposable Heroes lyric popped into my head.

[Mr. Freeze]

Lars did nothing wrong

[Gokuma]

It sure was a dick move of his to edit out the bass on And Justice For All.

[[McD] James]

6 hours ago, smeghammer said:

That's "Disposable Heroes" from Master of Puppets:

 

Fucking epic song!

 

 

 

Easily their best album.

[smeghammer]

Ooooh... It's a close call with Ride the Lightning...

 

 

[[McD] James]

I think I would go

 

1. Master of Puppets

2. Kill 'em All

3. The Black Album

4. Ride the Lightning

5. ...And Justice for All

6. Reload

7. Load

8. Death Magnetic

9. Hardwired to Self-Destruct

10. St. Anger

Edited February 21, 2021 by [McD]James

[Mr. Freeze]

1. Ride the Lightning

2. ...And Justice for All

3. Death Magnetic

4. Kill 'Em all

5. Master of Puppets

6. Hardwired...to Self Destruct

7. Garage Inc.

8. Load

9. Reload

10. St. Anger

11. LuLu

12. Black Album 

[seed]

1. Kill 'em All.

2. Ride the Lightning.

3. And Justice for All.

4. Master of Puppets.

5. Death Magnetic.

6. Black Album.

7. Garage Inc.

8. Hardwired to Self-Destruct.

 

And I stop there 😛.

[feedernseeder]

t-shirts! (good!)

[smeghammer]

Ah - degenerated into a 'whats my fave Metallica album'. I like it :-)

 

1. Ride the Lightning
2. Master of Puppets
3. Black Album
4. Garage days re-revisited (ok it's an EP, but fuckin' BUDGIE, man!)
5. Kill 'em All
6. Death Magnetic
7. And Justice for All
8. That live one with the full orchestra. NONONONONO!!!!!!!

 

Don't really know the others well enough to place them.

Edited February 21, 2021 by smeghammer

[Richard Simons]

1. Cunning Stunts DVD  (features many of their best songs in Eb tuning)

2. Master of Puppets

3. Garage Inc.  (disc 2 is the shit)

4. Black Album

5. Ride the Lightning

6. And Justice for All

7. Kill 'em All

 

... you're saying they have other albums too?  🤪

Edited February 21, 2021 by Cmdr. J.T. Marshmallow

[[McD] James]

I know people shit all over S&M, but I remember enjoying it when I listened to it during lunch break when a friend let me borrow it in high school. It's usually not even included as part of their official discography for whatever reason. I don't think I've listened to Lulu and Garage Days beyond maybe two songs.

[Soulless]

From the albums I own.

 

1. And Justice for all

2. Ride the Lightning

3. Kill em All

4. Garage Inc.

5. Master of Puppets

6. Load

7. Death Magnetic

8. Black Album

9. Reload

 

[Chezza]

S&M is what put Metallica on the map for me. It was a unique, bold move and made for some really epic songs. They weren't simply a heavy metal band, they used their money and influence to make unique music. Interesting how it's a big no for some people.

[Dubbag]

 

[Richard Simons]

2 minutes ago, Chezza said:

S&M is what put Metallica on the map for me. It was a unique, bold move and made for some really epic songs. They weren't simply a heavy metal band, they used their money and influence to make unique music. Interesting how it's a big no for some people.

 

The (late) conductor Michael Kamen is one of the greatest.  I recently watched Die Hard and was absolutely floored by the score.  He really captures the action.  No wonder Metallica teamed up with him.

[Dubbag]

How about favorite "Big 4 of Thrash" songs,

Anthrax- Keep it in the Family

Megadeth- The Conjuring

Metallica-Harvester of Sarrow

Slayer-Hell Awaits

Edited February 21, 2021 by Dubbagdarrel

[[McD] James]

Exodus - Bonded by Blood

Metallica - Master of Puppets

Slayer - The Antichrist

Megadeth - Hangar 18

[Dubbag]

@[McD]James I've always felt that Testament should have been in there too.

[Soulless]

Nice one @Dubbagdarrel!

Anthrax - Gridlock

Metallica - The Shortest Straw

Megadeth - Chosen Ones

Slayer - Altar of Sacrifice