Table fillers!

[vdgg]

One more attempt at checking what "deserves" a demo, I planned to look at "Doomworld community top WADs of all time", then maybe cacowards/ missed cacowards / "Best Wads To Have Never Won a Cacoward" thread.

 

I stopped at Batman Doom at the moment, position 72-80, but there's plenty of undone stuff so far, so let's check it out.

 

Position 2. Alien Vendetta, heh. I cannot say it's underdemoed or anything but MAP31 still has no UV Speed (any exit), which is pretty incredible.

21. Deus Vult II. MAP29 has no max demo.

28-29. NEIS. No demo on E4M7.  Kind of understandable, as it's an awkward map. Also, thanks to Spectre01, without him it would be not one map, but the majority.

30 D2TWID. No demo on MAP33. It's kind of ugly, but I know some people care about these "the way id did" series.

34-35 A.L.T. Plenty of maps with no demos

34-35 Sigil. Missing max demos which were probably recorded on earlier versions and got nuked (I didn't follow this one).

38-39 Congestion 1024. No demo on MAP30. It's a hard one, so I can understand.
55 Chillax - I don't know why is it rated so highly by the community so just a heads up. We know the reasons why so many maps were not done. 
58-59 Lost Civilization has no demos!! Wow.
65-69 Newgothic Movement 2. MAP09 has no demo.
72-77 Batman Doom. About maxing. Any chance of a patch that would make monster kills actually count towards kills %? If not, then it's a matter of keeping track of everything with IDDT? Without this "flaw" it's a really awesome classic.

 

Other stuff
ZDoom/GZDoom WADs with no demos were
Pirate Doom
Adventures of Square
Winter's Fury
Brutal Doom: Hell on Earth Starter Pack
Unloved.

 

More other stuff.

Btsx_e2 lol

Strain has tons of undone UV Speeds. Icarus has undone UV Speeds for maps 11,16,20,29 which is rare given how old it is.
 

What you think?

[GarrettChan]

I don't get it. You mean you're looking for filling the tables for notable WADs? I think Sigil is full, or you want earlier version ones? (which doesn't make too much sense)

 

BtSX_E2 probably is not right now... Even recording on BtSX_E1 gave me a fear that in the future it will get altered. I really want to revisit my b111 and b119 runs, but right now... I just feel the chill of something might happen and don't really want to revisit them.

[GrumpyCat]

11. Hell Revealed - shockingly four maps without uv speed.

 

[vdgg]

@GarrettChan As I said I have no knowledge about Sigil but E3M7 E3M8 and E3M9 have no max demos here so I took a note.

 

I didn't say that but with Michael Novikov style "P.S. IMHO, a "speedrun" is not the best way to show off a level. So I prefer to record demos that end with 100% kills & 100% secrets." max has a bit of a priority for me. Then, there are maps like Equinox MAP13 which are not likely to be possible and of course I couldn't help to notice that number 2 on the list has an UV Speed missing. True about HR also.

Edited February 28, 2021 by vdgg

[Dimon12321]

BTSX Ep 2 has to receive another update before finally becoming acceptable for DSDA, but who knows when dew will make it possible

Edited February 28, 2021 by Dimon12321

[Shepardus]

Sigil had UV Max demos of all levels, but for older versions of the wad.

 

A couple I've been eyeing:

• Avactor has no demos.
• Wormwood and Wormwood: Expanded Universe have no demos - especially surprising to me considering the popularity of many other Ribbiks wads (edit: Pseudonaut did share some demos for Wormwood EU in its release thread). Orange Is True Love lacks a demo for MAP03.
• MAYhem 2019 doesn't have any demos.
• Return to Hadron is the most fun I've had with an Ultimate Doom wad. Episode 1 is missing a couple UV Maxes, Episode 2 has almost no demos, and Episode 3 has none at all.
• 1000 Lines Community Project is missing demos for about half its maps, and its sequel has only a couple demos.
• Doom 64 for Doom II has no UV Max demos for about half its maps - anyone want to run "Doom 64" with the convenience of a vanilla-compatible source port? (note: The wad hosted on DSDA is version 1.2 while /idgames has 1.4, but I don't think any existing demos desync in 1.4, the changes between the two are pretty minimal. Also, there's a MAP33 in this wad.)

Edited March 1, 2021 by Shepardus

[4shockblast]

Not sure how many of these are Cacoward winners or anything, but I think these should qualify as notable anyway. :)

• 50 Shades map 18 is still missing any demos. Rest of the maxtable is complete I think. It didn't seem up my alley, so I never beat it, not sure how hard it is.
• The Journey maxtable is still pretty sparse
• Toilet of the Gods only has map 1 at the moment, though these maps are hard. I think I'll try map 4 at some point, we'll see. :^)
• Both Chex Quest 1 and 2 are still surprisingly low on demos, other than full runs at least. Chex 2, notably, has no maxes at all.
• H2H-XMas should have pretty fun UV-Speeds IMO, but has very few of those.

On a personal level, I would like to see/might work on the following:

• Completing the Perdition's Gate NM100 table. NM is already complete, only 3 and 27 left for NM100 (both pretty brutal, though, IMO).
• Completed Scythe movies (missing NM100 episodes 2/3/D2ALL, UV-Max episode 3/D2ALL, NM-Speed D2ALL, UV -fast? episodes 2/3/D2ALL)

Edited March 1, 2021 by 4shockblast

[lirui1001]

1 hour ago, Shepardus said:

Avactor has no demos.

 

Because Avactor has no idgames version yet.

 

1 hour ago, Shepardus said:

1000 Lines Community Project is missing demos for about half its maps, and its sequel has only a couple demos.

 

I did some fillers before but I was so lazy to do others :( If so I will continue with other maps.

 

And The Modest Mapping Challenge has only 2 demos because SSG is not allowed in the wad and this restriction makes the whole wad annoying.

Edited March 1, 2021 by lirui1001

[GarrettChan]

9 minutes ago, 4shockblast said:

• The Journey maxtable is still pretty sparse

This WAD... I personally don't really know how I feel about it... In general, the levels are really not fun to run. Probably this contributes to the sparse table. Though I put quite a bit of effort for Map01, but Map01 is also pretty... annoying.

[4shockblast]

Just now, GarrettChan said:

This WAD... I personally don't really know how I feel about it... In general, the levels are really not fun to run. Probably this contributes to the sparse table. Though I put quite a bit of effort for Map01, but Map01 is also pretty... annoying.

You may be right, I only raced it casually. I do remember trying to find some speeds after that, but I didn't find much that seemed too interesting. Maybe it just works better for continuous runs than ILs, heh.

[Revved]

The trends of which WADs runners decide to make demos for and which ones they gloss over has always been fascinating to me, so I'll just throw in my two cents on certain ones I'm familiar with:

 

8 hours ago, vdgg said:

21. Deus Vult II. MAP29 has no max demo.

30 D2TWID. No demo on MAP33. It's kind of ugly, but I know some people care about these "the way id did" series.

34-35 A.L.T. Plenty of maps with no demos

34-35 Sigil. Missing max demos which were probably recorded on earlier versions and got nuked (I didn't follow this one).

38-39 Congestion 1024. No demo on MAP30. It's a hard one, so I can understand.

 

DVII Map 29 is just the same as DV map 5, but with an added opening area, so having a demo for the both of them would just be redundant.

Several years ago, I tried doing D2TWID map 33, but I think I gave up at some point, I just kept running out of ammo and felt it wasn't worth the effort.

A.L.T. actually has a full UV-Max playthrough on TheV1perK1ller's YouTube page, albeit recorded in GZDoom.

Fortunately as of this post, only two Sigil maps don't have proper maxdemos, E3M7 and E3M9, so I hope those get sorted out in due time.

I do remember actually asking as to why nobody ever did Congestion 1024 map 30, but I never really got a substantial answer.

 

5 hours ago, Shepardus said:

Avactor has no demos.

Wormwood and Wormwood: Expanded Universe have no demos - especially surprising to me considering the popularity of many other Ribbiks wads (edit: Pseudonaut did share some demos for Wormwood EU in its release thread). Orange Is True Love lacks a demo for MAP03.

 

Neither of those are on idgames, which is usually the sign for speedrunners that a WAD is finalized and ready to be ran without a chance of desync.

 

3 hours ago, 4shockblast said:

The Journey maxtable is still pretty sparse

 

I've certainly noticed that too. Of special note is of map 31, where 100% kills/secrets cannot be achieved by taking either exits; there's no way back to previous areas where you can go back and kill any missing monsters.

 

5 hours ago, Shepardus said:

1000 Lines Community Project is missing demos for about half its maps

 

Same with Map 30 of 1000 Lines, that map starts out with 80 arachnotron snipers that cannot be killed by any means.

[Killer5]

If someone wants to deal with totg here are some runs I did. I don't have all of my demos because many exits missed monsters. I did keep one of my notable map02 exits even though it misses monsters because there was an interesting bit of infighting that happened with a cyb/pe which trivialized the start on the return. So you should check that if you want to try out map02 because beating the tas time is definitely doable as long as you don't miss monsters or have to look for them because they fall =x.

 

None of these are for dsda.

totg.zip

[TheV1perK1ller]

5 hours ago, Shepardus said:

• Doom 64 for Doom II: The wad hosted on DSDA is version 1.2 while /idgames has 1.4, but I don't think any existing demos desync in 1.4, the changes between the two are pretty minimal.

I was eventually going to plan on doing on UV-Max runs for the remaining maps, but opted not to since there were two follow-up updates - I didn't realise at the time the WAD still needed fixes. I didn't want to cause any desyncs (or confusion).

[Shepardus]

4 hours ago, 4shockblast said:

• Both Chex Quest 1 and 2 are still surprisingly low on demos, other than full runs at least. Chex 2, notably, has no maxes at all.

I took a brief look at Chex Quest 2 a couple months ago but stopped after finding that one of the secrets in E1M3 requires a glide for some reason (I'll leave that for someone more skilled...). I also remember the hedge maze in the same map having some weird collision detection preventing me from entering part of the maze - not sure if this interferes with maxing the level.

[Grain of Salt]

3 hours ago, Revved said:

Quote

Wormwood and Wormwood: Expanded Universe have no demos - especially surprising to me considering the popularity of many other Ribbiks wads (edit: Pseudonaut did share some demos for Wormwood EU in its release thread). Orange Is True Love lacks a demo for MAP03.

Neither of those are on idgames, which is usually the sign for speedrunners that a WAD is finalized and ready to be ran without a chance of desync.

 

These three wads are final and aren't going to be updated.

 

iirc Ribbiks doesn't upload to idgames any more, and I never have.

[Andromeda]

19 hours ago, Revved said:

I do remember actually asking as to why nobody ever did Congestion 1024 map 30, but I never really got a substantial answer.

The premise of that level is surviving in a cramped space for roughly 3 minutes, with monsters constantly spawning and filling up the playspace. Since it's a MAP30 there's a high chance of getting telefragged while trying to move around the monsters, and to make matters worse there's a insta-death pit surrounding most of the outer edges of the arena. For max it gets even worse - there's lots of mancubi on distant pillars in the void overlooking the arena, which aren't exactly practical to kill while you're scrambling to avoid getting yourself killed. And I've only scratched the surface on what makes that level annoying...