Improvements you would make to commercial Doom maps

[LudicrousFPS]

Penultimate level in DOOM 2, makes sense to have a cyberdemon. Doesn't make sense that it's so easy to skip. 

I would make a bigger arena for it, along with like 3 switches that you would have to press to lower the exit. Would make skipping much harder, while also being still possible for speedrunners and such.

[LadyMistDragon]

Map 08 from TNT: DELETE THE DAMN THING. IT'S A HIDEOUS ABORTION. IT MIGHT BE WORST THAT HABITAT HOLY SHIT.

 

Map 21 from TNT: Shrink the hallways down to cut back the overstrafing. Make a more sensical final room. Vary the damn textures or change the name of the level. 

 

Map 22: Perish in a habitat or better texture choices. Don't think it's that hard of a decision.

 

Map 23: Change the music (because jesus) but also, put more detail and thought into the level.

 

Map 32: Change the damn theme because this is just impossible. Set in a pirate ship, idk.

[DU0]

The Ultimate Doom
E1 - No
E2 - Not much comes to mind. Maybe rebalance to make it a little harder overall. The final boss would be in a smaller map which would open up after you kill the Cyberdemon to expose more monsters, which would also need to be killed.

E3 - Also rebalance to make a little harder. Probably put less monsters but make them more menacing. Final boss would also be, y'know, not killable by spamming the BFG from the other side of the map.

E4 - Same as EP3. Put in less monsters, but make each more dangerous via placement.

 

Doom 2
Either scrap or redo everything after Tricks and Traps. Most city levels need to go, or at least be made more linear. Abstract levels are mostly fine but sometimes they're just too big. The Chasm brings an interesting challenge which I think could be modernized, but that inescapable trap at the end is gone. Final boss elevator would become a teleporter puzzle of sorts with respawning enemies, so it'd become a game of managing ammo and health instead of the borefest it is.

 

I don't care so much about Final Doom, but I'd also try to make Plutonia more interesting by trading the amount of monsters for more interesting placement to keep the challenge up. I can only have so much fun killing a Revenant for the 900th time.

[Maximum Matt]

Change the order of maps in Episode 4 so it's not so unfairly difficult from the beginning.  Even if you were to put Unruly Evil (map 4) as the first map, you can at least get some ammo and armor for Hell Beneath.  

And maybe swap maps 6 and 7, Against Thee Wickedly would be a better penultimate map

[Pompeji]

I'd alter the falling platform in tricks and traps leading to the exit to add a switch that raises said platforms again. Was playing coop on xbox with my buddy and we got stuck on the level because I got nailed on my way to the exit and died.

[omx32x]

i would make doom 2 be more colorfull to fit better with doom 1 

i think many times when someone say they dont like doom 2 maps its because of the coloring on a bunch of them

[Dubbag]

Get rid of the stupid crate you have to step on to lower the red key in The Focus.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Dubbagdarrel

[PeterMoro]

1. More health and ammo in E4M1.

 

2. Generally more non-linear maps. 

 

3. Environments to look and feel more like they would on the after exit screen. (The overheard map of Phobos)

 

4. Levels feel connected in some way ie. the level ending area is the next map starting area. 

 

5. More puzzle based progression.

[Stupid Bunny]

2 hours ago, LudicrousFPS said:

Penultimate level in DOOM 2, makes sense to have a cyberdemon. Doesn't make sense that it's so easy to skip. 

I would make a bigger arena for it, along with like 3 switches that you would have to press to lower the exit. Would make skipping much harder, while also being still possible for speedrunners and such.

Hell, they programmed the damn game, they could’ve just made it so like you have to kill the cyberdemon, that its death triggers a wall to lower or something. I guess it slows the speedrunners down a bit but it was within the realm of possibility.

[Doomkid]

2 hours ago, Pompeji said:

I'd alter the falling platform in tricks and traps leading to the exit to add a switch that raises said platforms again. Was playing coop on xbox with my buddy and we got stuck on the level because I got nailed on my way to the exit and died.

There's actually a teleporter in the Cacodemon horde room that opens when you open the red door just to make sure players never get stuck like this!

[Xaser]

Rather than change the maps themselves, I'd arrange them into episodes:

 

On 9/11/2018 at 10:35 AM, Xaser said:

 

Episode 1: "The Infested Starport"
E1M1: Entryway
E1M2: Underhalls
E1M3: The Gantlet
E1M4: The Focus
E1M5: The Waste Tunnels
E1M6: The Crusher (exit to secret level)
E1M7: Dead Simple
E1M8: Refueling Base
E1M9: Circle of Death
E1M0: Tricks and Traps (secret level)

Episode 2: "Last Man on Earth"
E2M1: The Pit
E2M2: The Factory
E2M3: Downtown
E2M4: Tenements
E2M5: Industrial Zone (exit to secret level)
E2M6: Suburbs
E2M7: The Abandoned Mines
E2M8: The Citadel
E2M9: Gotcha!
E2M0: The Courtyard (secret level)

Episode 3: "Corruption"
E3M1: Nirvana
E3M2: The Catacombs
E3M3: The Inmost Dens
E3M4: The Chasm (exit to secret level)
E3M5: Bloodfalls
E3M6: Monster Condo
E3M7: The Spirit World
E3M8: The Living End
E3M9: Icon of Sin
E3M0: Barrels o' Fun (secret level)

 

 

 

Old post where I discuss a bunch of minutia about this hypothetical mixtape:

 

 

[Vermil]

3 hours ago, Pompeji said:

I'd alter the falling platform in tricks and traps leading to the exit to add a switch that raises said platforms again. Was playing coop on xbox with my buddy and we got stuck on the level because I got nailed on my way to the exit and died.

 

There actually is a teleporter that opens up, that teleports you straight into the exit room; it's in the cacodemon room.

[peach freak]

Doom:

 

E4M5: I'd change the textures/design of some parts of the map. It's pretty much the same design from start to finish, and there's nothing glamorous or unique about it, making it a fairly boring map to play.

 

E4M8: Make the final arena where you fight the Spider Mastermind a bit bigger. She can't move around all that much, she gets stuck pretty easily, and it can lead to either you or other monsters cheaply killing her off while she is completely defenseless. I actually kill enemies to unstick her in this level, otherwise it can be a rather anti-climatic final boss fight.

 

TNT:

 

Map04: While a great map, I'd change it so that you're required to go to the "alternate dimension" to open up the exit in the "normal dimension", otherwise you can beat the map in like 15 seconds if you know where the trigger line is for opening the exit up. It would also give a purpose to playing in the "alternate dimension" half of the map.

Maybe move Lunar Mining Project and Quarry (Maps 23 and 24) up to earlier parts of the game, or bump up the difficulty on them? They're pretty short and fairly simple levels for lategame maps and mostly have monster/weapon/item contents you see in the early levels.

 

Plutonia:

 

Map09: I know Plutonia is supposed to be difficult, but the final area in this map is just ridiculous. I normally don't like doing mid-level saves, but this is one of the very few maps I carve an exception out for. The teleporter leading you to the final area is one-way, so you can't go back and grab other health or ammo. When entering the final room, the door behind you closes permanently. That room houses a Soulsphere so you can't go back and grab it if you want to, even if you enter the area with 200% health and were planning on saving that second Soulsphere. There's nowhere to hide in the room, as you will always be exposed to some enemy. Each corner has a Mancubus and Revenant, and when you're trying to kill everything, you need to keep moving as there's the possibility of being pelted in the back with fireballs or not knowing you have a couple of homing missiles on your trail. Also, all pits in the final room are inescapable, and when you're fighting everything and trying to avoid an attack or two, it's pretty easy to fall in. Again, the only real area of Plutonia I have any gripe of difficulty-wise.

[Pompeji]

6 hours ago, Doomkid said:

There's actually a teleporter in the Cacodemon horde room that opens when you open the red door just to make sure players never get stuck like this!

 

5 hours ago, Vermil said:

 

There actually is a teleporter that opens up, that teleports you straight into the exit room; it's in the cacodemon room.

 

Well in that case... I'd make it more obvious! Hahahah

[Rytrik]

8 hours ago, Doomkid said:

There's actually a teleporter in the Cacodemon horde room that opens when you open the red door just to make sure players never get stuck like this!

 

7 hours ago, Vermil said:

 

There actually is a teleporter that opens up, that teleports you straight into the exit room; it's in the cacodemon room.

 

My version must be different, or I'm doing something wrong. I just found the aforementioned teleporter in the caco room, and it teleports me into the red skull key room, not the exit room. I have all of the keys, and the level is cleared (save for running across the exit platforms). What am I doing incorrectly?

[Vermil]

1 hour ago, Rytrik said:

 

 

My version must be different, or I'm doing something wrong. I just found the aforementioned teleporter in the caco room, and it teleports me into the red skull key room, not the exit room. I have all of the keys, and the level is cleared (save for running across the exit platforms). What am I doing incorrectly?

There are two teleporters in that room that open as you progress. Probably meant for Co-op play.

 

The right one opens when you walk over the trigger that lowers the floor in the red key room.

 

The left one teleports you to the exit room and opens if you poke your head in the room between the red door and  exit.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Vermil

[Sotenga]

Lots of great responses here! I really like Xaser's episodic arrangement for D2, though I do like the suggestion in his prior thread to "introduce" Mancubi and Arachnotrons as the bosses and set Dead Simple for last. That said, if Gotcha! is to feel more like a boss map, I'd somehow make it so the infamous Cybie vs. Spidey fight is guarding the exit instead of being set right near the start. Like just shuffle that room to the end via a teleporter and instead go to a smaller room with the Barons and Arch-Viles still intact. That map's a bit of a mess as is, so I might suggest more direction to the required areas and/or a reduction of the pain floors.

 

And lord knows the Icon of Sin could use a reworking. I do think there should be more of an actual stage before the big battle itself, and I'd say either completely remove or at least reduce the spawn cube rate, somehow giving the IoS a more direct means to defend itself. How TNT Revilution handled it with the turrets is what I'm more or less envisioning.

[Rytrik]

2 minutes ago, Vermil said:

There are two teleporters in that room that open as you progress.

 

The right one teleports you to the red skull key.

 

The left one teleports you to the exit room.

 

There is no teleporter on the left side. Unless I'm missing some obscure switch somewhere, I'm at k 141/142, I 5/5, S 7/7, and the only teleporter in the caco room is on the right side.

[peach freak]

59 minutes ago, Rytrik said:

 

There is no teleporter on the left side. Unless I'm missing some obscure switch somewhere, I'm at k 141/142, I 5/5, S 7/7, and the only teleporter in the caco room is on the right side.

 

I think you need to quickly step onto the first falling platform in the final room to reveal the second teleporter, and then quickly backup before the pillar is too low for you to get to safety.

[Rytrik]

20 minutes ago, peach freak said:

 

I think you need to quickly step onto the first falling platform in the final room to reveal the second teleporter, and then quickly backup before the pillar is too low for you to get to safety.

 

That did it. Thank you.

 

That's good to know, though it's really only useful in co-op, since a person falling into the pit leading to the exit on SP means a restart or reloading the level (unless you clip).

Edited March 2, 2021 by Rytrik

[94's the best style]

Give Spider Mastermind some room to walk, especially in E4M8. Also exile all other monsters from both fights.

[GarrettChan]

21 hours ago, rd. said:

In Downtown I would have arrows pointing at everything so that the player finds it impossible to progress out of indecision. 

I like this idea, a lot.

 

However, I'm surprised that you didn't say take out everything except the sewers in Habitat.

[Stupid Bunny]

Make the platform puzzle at the beginning of TNT MAP30 about 50 times longer

[GarrettChan]

4 minutes ago, StupidBunny said:

Make the platform puzzle at the beginning of TNT MAP30 about 50 times longer

and you can only look at the torches once :P

Edited March 2, 2021 by GarrettChan

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

I'd take away the cyberdemon in map 32 and put hans grosse in his place.

[Rudolph]

I am surprised nobody talked about moving the enemies stuck in the architecture, e.g. the Shotgunner and the barrel in MAP02: Underhalls.

 

19 hours ago, Nevander said:

I've actually done some improvements to my least favorite map, E3M7. Which you can get and play here, under E3M7 Improved:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/100595-nevanders-mini-mods-and-doom-mapping-portfolio-updated-113020/

Cool! Thanks for sharing it with us here.

 

12 hours ago, Xaser said:

Rather than change the maps themselves, I'd arrange them into episodes:

 

 

Old post where I discuss a bunch of minutia about this hypothetical mixtape:

 

 

Holy crap, that is such an amazing idea. Is it actually doable, though? I feel like trying to make it myself.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Rudolph

[Master O]

22 hours ago, Pseudonaut said:

Pistol start is the One True Way to Play Doom™.

 

With only 1% health!

[Gokuma]

15 hours ago, Xaser said:

Rather than change the maps themselves, I'd arrange them into episodes:

 

 

Old post where I discuss a bunch of minutia about this hypothetical mixtape:

 

 

 

I like your arrangement.   I also chose your arrangement with a patcher that turns Master Levels into a single wad.

 

Just some ideas and thoughts of mine to throw out there.   Circle O' Destruction has a multi-only cyber that could be set to single to make it like a boss level.   Several levels do.   Could add the PSX version secret exit to Suburbs (I've already done this) and an improved version of the X-Box secret to Underhalls (Did this too).  Only problems with those are there's already Industrial Zone with a secret exit right before Suburbs and map02 sending people to a secret map would provide too many weapons too early in the game.   Instead of arbitrary exiting to secret level to fit it in, I would prefer a secret exit be added to a map.   Maybe work them in a similar style to Underhalls' or Suburbs' added secret exits.

 

I always missed the episodic structure and map screens of Doom 1 when messing with Doom 2.   Of course mapinfo makes it possible to have the best of both worlds, except haven't seen any map screens made up for Doom 2.   I see the only downside of episodic structure being having to relaunch a multiplayer game after finishing each episode.   Of course mapinfo that can fix that even in Doom 1 and just progress you to the next episode.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Gokuma

[wallabra]

20 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I’d connect the two outdoor areas in Map01, similar to what Dwango5 M1 does. I’d also love it if the lift in the brown Ashwall room dropped back down to the start area with the chainsaw!

 

We need a Better Entryway contest. The one who makes the best, most creative Entryway map - that of course still looks and feels like Entryway - wins!

Edited March 2, 2021 by Gustavo6046

[seed]

On 3/2/2021 at 8:59 AM, Xaser said:

Rather than change the maps themselves, I'd arrange them into episodes:

 

Same for me, I think re-arranging the maps makes Doom 2 already an even better game since that's what makes it weirder than Doom mostly.

 

At most, I'd just also polish some maps around the edges, but nothing more. The game is good as-is. Oh and restore the second barrier on Underhalls from v1.666 because it really didn't need removing.