how were bridges made in vanilla?

[forgettable pyromaniac]

Sythe, Map22, bridge.

All i need to say. even in vanilla, it was done.
Now I'm curious on how this was done w/o stuff like Boom.

Not necessarily a "using it for my own level", more-so a "I'm curious as to how it was done."

[Kappes Buur]

https://www.doomworld.com/tutorials/fx7.php

https://www.doomworld.com/tutorials/fx8.php

https://www.doomworld.com/tutorials/fx9.php

 

Even now, creating those constructs in a Doom format map is a major feat.

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Kappes Buur

[DCG Retrowave]

Scythe's bridges are a bit strange.  They have linedefs that overlap other linedefs and if you use IDCLIP while standing on a raised bridge, you can actually fall through some tiny holes.  This means that monsters wouldn't be able to move around if you placed one on these bridges (although they still wouldn't be able to get off the bridge regardless due to the necessary gap between the self-referencing sector and any other platforms).  I came up with a different method (someone else may have used this method before me, but I taught myself this stuff so I'm not sure how most other mappers do these :D) a few months ago that works much better in my opinion.

 

Here's how I construct them in my own maps.

 

All you need is a one-unit gap between the surrounding sectors.  Basically, create the thinnest sector possible to surround the self referencing sector.  To get the bridge to function (move up and down), you'll need to take advantage of some linedef actions that can instantly raise or lower a platform.  The names for these sound like they do the opposite of the function you'll be using them for, but they do work.  The green lines at the side lower this bridge with action "94 - WR Floor Raise to 8 below Lowest Ceiling (Crushes)" and the green lines from the ground above raise it as the player tries to step onto the bridge with action "83 - WR Floor Lower to Highest Floor."  You'll need to join the bridge sector to another sector in an inaccessible area and connect that sector to two other sectors with the necessary properties for these actions to work.

This is the same sector as one of those bridges.  The one on the left has the same properties that this sector currently has.  When the bridge has been lowered to -96, it'll raise back up to 0 when action 83 is triggered.

This sector has a ceiling height that is just 8 units above the water that surrounds the bridge.  Action 94 will instantly lower the bridge to 8 units below the ceiling (same height as the water).

 

Here's how the bridge looks in-game in PrBoom+

Once you've done this a few times, it becomes natural :D

 

Here's an even more complex-looking bridge.  Note: If you're trying to optimize a maps for vanilla's static limits, I wouldn't recommend this.  This area of this map breaks vanilla's 256 drawseg limit so a major HOM will be seen here.  I optimize my maps for the patched vanilla EXE, DOOM2P.EXE, so I can make things look more fancy and still enjoy them on my DOS PC in vanilla :D

 

I hope you'll find this information fascinating and useful :D

 

Technical stuff:  I recommend using BSP-W32 on any maps with self-referencing sectors.  I've noticed that ZenNode tends to have more trouble with self-referencing sectors than BSP-W32, so I always use BSP when implementing self-referencing sectors (not just for bridges) in my maps.  ZenNode seems to have issues with flats bleeding from the top of the bridges, but not always.  Before switching node builders, I found that sometimes the bridges would just randomly start working correctly once I redrew the lines several times :D.  Also, line-of-sight often gets screwed up in ZenNode with these sectors unless you choose the "No Reject" option.  BSP often works fine on these maps even with a proper reject lump.

Edited March 2, 2021 by DCG Retrowave

[Stupid Bunny]

These bridges are beautiful and fun and I have employed them in a couple of my maps (using the Erik Alm method, although @DCG Retrowave your method looks worth rejiggering some of my bridges into).  A couple side-effects to keep in mind are

• Weird things will happen if you start to cross a bridge while a monster is underneath it
• They can be a real nuisance in co-op if people won't wait their turn when crossing over or under it

These problems can be mitigated in their own ways but just keep them in mind when you go to make your own bridge.  

 

 

It's possible, for example, to walk in and out of this pit under the bridge, but I have placed Block Monsters flags along the edges of the pit so that our friends on the other side can't walk under and then get suddenly stuck on the bridge when I try to cross it later.  Of course you don't need a pit at all, but it makes the monster blocking seem a little less contrived if there's some visible reason for the monsters not to cross under ;3  (This change was made at the suggestion of @valkiriforce btw, it was a good idea)

 

[ReX]

46 minutes ago, Kappes Buur said:

Even now, creating those constructs in a Doom format map is a major feat.

Yes, I agree with @Kappes Buur. This is not for someone new to DooM modding.

[forgettable pyromaniac]

1 hour ago, ReX said:

Yes, I agree with @Kappes Buur. This is not for someone new to DooM modding.

was just curious, it's really cool :0

[P41R47]

16 minutes ago, forgettablepyromaniac said:

was just curious, it's really cool :0

give it a try, i would say.

I didn't worked for me on the first time, but it worked at last...somehow :/

 

Start by learning how to do self referencing sectors, much like those floating imps at the start of TNT map18: Mill.

After that, you will grasp up how fake 3D bridges work, and maybe understand how they are made.

 

Do know that there is a difference from those bridges seen on the tutorials and at the start of Mordeth.

Those bridges are harder to achieve, while the fake 3D bridges like on Kama Sutra map10: To Be or Not To Be... are kinda slighty easier.

So the learning steps would be self referencing sector, fake 3D bridges, and last, full floor fake 3D bridges.

Edited March 1, 2021 by P41R47