Playing cautiously and methodically, while boring, makes the game much easier than running and gunning

[Kute]

Just wondering do you guys feel like you're cheating if you use cover? The more you slow the game down, the easier it becomes. During traps and the like everything becomes a bit desperate and we're all relegated to whatever works, but for working through a tough map I'll usually do really good on the blind run and I was wondering why I have like this "newbie protection bonus" and I've realized it's just because you play carefully. Then when I'm blasting through the map because I screwed up near the end or something, I'll have more trouble with it than the first attempt. Always being topped up on armour from never taking stray hits really helps, I think that's a big part of what I'm talking about.

 

I guess that's just normal though. Once you're comfortable with the map and try to fly through it, that's when I start catching stray nonsense

[Deadwing]

Depends on the map. Nowadays mappers will always try to put the player outside of his confort zone, using strategic monster placement to ambush the player or soft locks (one-way passages like dropdowns) or hard locks (bars behind you).

 

So I think it's perfectly fine to use cover and try to solve the map slowly and methodically. But sometimes just running and letting the monsters do the work themselves is the easier option, which is something I remember doing in some AA or Valiant maps.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Deadwing

[leodoom85]

It really depends of the situation that you're facing. Casually, you can play aggressively since you don't have some major objective other than to survive. 

However, in ironman sessions, you must play more cautiously because of the special rules (which you must survive no matter what till the end).

[Biodegradable]

Depends on the player, depends on the situation. Sometimes I'm slow and methodical, other times I'm more aggressive. For me personally, it'll depend on the combat scenario and the layout of the area and what I can do to strategise. Taking cover? If I'm facing a chaingunner from an awkward position or a large horde of hitscanners, you bet your arse I'm going to take cover, fam. Cheating? lol yeah right. No-clipping, flying, God mode, freeze-framing, that shit's cheating. Taking cover's just strategy. How else do you plan to dodge a Rev's homing missile or do you think you're supposed to just eat them and pray the RNG will be on your side?

[Major Arlene]

play how you want.

[D4NUK1]

Really Depends of the map, you can't really play slow if the map it's too open to enemy fire from multiple sites and the resources/weapons are also in the open.

[BoxY]

I've also noticed that people who stand in the rain tend to get wet.

[1Destro3456]

It all depends on the cover that is given to you, also, its not cheating 

[Zulk RS]

I disagree. It's cautious and run-and-gun are just two different playstyles for playing Doom. It really depends on the map and what you're used to. I play slowly and cautiously and because of that, I've had a much easier time with most of TNT, Holy Hell and a few other maps here and there. It's also because of my playstyle I had a much more frustrating time with Plutonia as I felt like the maps forced me out of the slow and steady style I enjoy and into running and gunning. 

[Stabbey]

This topic does bring up an interesting point. If the combat is boring, then the mapper might not be doing things in the best way. Players inevitably gravitate towards the path of least resistance. If standing in a doorway and killing monsters one at a time as they come out is the best way to handle an encounter ("door combat"), many players will probably do so, even if it is boring.

 

The onus is on the mappers to make their combat situations in a way that it's not boring to play. I took that into account with my latest map.

 

Only read this if you're interested in hearing how I tried to avoid boring combat in a level.

 

The first area is empty, the second area has a huge encounter in it. How did I keep the player from running back into the first area? I didn't put any resources in it. The weapons and ammo are all in the arena. The player can freely leave through any of the doors, but those all go to long hallways with a few chaingunners at the far end - easy enough to deal with if you're patient, but not with the big room still active with enemies. If they still run through, that's fine, because they'll need to pass through that room eventually anyway - they're only delaying the fight, not avoiding it.

 

Don't just have every fight be the same either - the next big fights are specifically designed for the player to use cover. Another fight puts the player in the middle of three different enemy groups coming from three different directions, and the player has a second to decide which one they want to take on. Other fights lock the player in to have to deal with different tricky situations. Variety in encounters is important.

[Loud Silence]

I take cover behind enemies to start infighting. If i will want to hide behind a wall, i will play Call of Duty.

[Andromeda]

Is it cheating to take cover? Absolutely not and it is often a required strategy. However you're absolutely right that playing slowly and methodically dramatically increases your chances of survival at the cost of being boring and showcasing no skill whatsoever.

[omx32x]

is this another topic about seeking validation about playing doom?

damn why is there so many of these recentely

play whatever you want

[Juza]

Doom, at least within the majority of the original Doom 1 and 2 levels, isn't really a game that forces you to run to survive. You could easily beat the original games without ever sprinting. It's not as fast-paced as people often say, imo...

 

16 minutes ago, Loud Silence said:

I take cover behind enemies to start infighting. If i will want to hide behind a wall, i will play Call of Duty.

What do you do in the case of an overwhelming group of hitscanners? Doom has always incentived the player to use cover to avoid fire, much like Wolfenstein 3D. Would you call Wolfenstein 3D a Call of Duty clone?

Edited March 10, 2021 by Juza

[94's the best style]

17 minutes ago, Loud Silence said:

I take cover behind enemies to start infighting. If i will want to hide behind a wall, i will play Call of Duty.

Monsters ain't gonna do jack against archvile flames though.

[Silhouette 03]

1 hour ago, Major Arlene said:

play how you want.

And with those words, world peace was achieved...

 

I do partially agree with the OP, though I find the game is about making quick decisions that drastically determine the outcome of the fight. Certain fights demand that you as the player take risks with very little discernible outcome, other than you surviving the encounter or not.

 

I have no idea where the idea that using cover is cheating came from. Many of dooms enemies DEMAND that you use cover, such as hit-scanners and the Arch-vile.

 

 

[wolfmcbeard]

If the head on, run n' gun, rip and tear method doesn't work, there's no shame in being a bit more thoughtful on the approach to a situation.
I find my self being a bit more cautious as a result, but I enjoy the experience more generally than if I were to keep cudgeling my way through and suffering death after death again and again until it works. 

[Loud Silence]

10 minutes ago, Juza said:

Would you call Wolfenstein 3D a Call of Duty clone?

Of course, Wolf3D was made after Call of Duty.

11 minutes ago, Juza said:

What do you do in the case of an overwhelming group of hitscanners?

If there's no enemy to hide behind, i will hide behind corner for a second to stop incoming fire, but i will not camp there.

[magicsofa]

I try to place the better health and ammo stashes behind enemy lines, so that hanging back will give you just enough whereas rushing in will get you extra resources at the cost of safety. But, I also try to allow the player to sometimes get a significant edge on monsters if they're positioned right. To me it can also be boring to just run and gun all the time - it's more fun to have choices. Do I aggressively take the space, or make a tactical retreat?

[94's the best style]

Cautious is more enjoyable, makes you feel like in control. Especially important in Doom, as the game is quite random with... everything, so you have to expect everything to go wrong in the worst possible way.

[Pompeji]

I like to give options in my maps. The one I'm working on has an alternate path, so you can choose to either enter a slow paced maze with few rewards but a shorter, less combat focused path to the key card you need, or you can take the harder path with harder combat, which rewards you with backpacks and a megasphere. The player can even go through both paths, find the optional red key in the slow and methodical path, backtrack to the harder path, open a red door, get a plasma rifle, the yellow key, and a BFG before the cyberdemon fight. I encourage exploration and variation in my maps so the player doesn't ever feel like it's repetitive. End result is the same, but the player finds better stuff earlier in the harder path.

[seed]

Play as you desire man.

 

Though it depends on context, some maps very much do require a faster approach to survive, especially if that may be mandatory for some sections as well - platforming on a timer for instance, timed maps, etc. -. Otherwise have fun.

[Kute]

Oops, I really didn't intend this to be about validation.

It's more a discussion on the most popular playstyle in Doom. I could care less about the style I'm playing the game. I don't even play particularily slow.

 

I'm just noting that things go much smoother when you tread carefully - and while that sounds like common sense, in a game with such a community emphasis on speed, that speed can be misleading. Indeed there are people in this very thread that say they'd never take cover. I find that a bit strange. I'm not talking about popping out for a handgun shot on a baron then diving for cover again. There are plenty of situations where you have to keep moving rapidly. 

 

But there's alot of situations where going for cover makes everything so much easier. Not even particularily slower sometimes. It's an odd stigma

[KillPixel]

the key is to methodically run and gun ;)

Edited March 10, 2021 by KillPixel

[dei_eldren]

i'm not bored playing methodically and as safe as i can.  Cheating?  Whatever....

[CyberHog]

Well there is no better Doom-related feeling than running and gunning through a tough fight, using the enemies to your advantage (infighting) etc I tend to take a more methodical approach the first time I play a level. Nothing weird about that. A well designed fight should make it impossible anyway to be too cautious.

 

But like other people have said, play the game how you want.

[Gez]

I'll admit I am sometimes a bit amused/annoyed when mappers really do everything they can to make sure I'm not "bored" by making sure the map is cheese-proof and that it's impossible to approach a fight cautiously. By amused/annoyed I mean that weird feeling of "yeah, I see what you did there".

[purist]

Most of my mapping energy is spent thinking of new and inventive ways to reward aggressive play, discourage cautious/cheese tactics and generally keep the player on the move as much as possible.

[SF.]

There's no shame in playing cautiously and methodically, minimising risks as much as possible. It may not involve much skill, but I like to think that this playstyle gradually loses its effectiveness as you play harder and harder stuff, forcing you to become a better player anyway. What works in TNT Evilution may not work in Scythe 2.

Edited March 10, 2021 by paturn

[Doom64hunter]

Just wondering, do you guys feel like cheating if you use guns? The bigger the guns you use, the easier it becomes.