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THEME-GAWAD PROJECT #1


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Man, it always sucks when you see a cool project thread pop pup, and then months later some fuckery happens, forcing it to go into limbo because of 2-3 missing maps. Hopefully, everything will pan out for the participants, and I will definitely play this when it drops!

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No way this is dying. 3 maps, a custom TITLEPIC/CREDITS (wait did someone already do that?), a final round of testing... @Ofisil if you don't have time then perhaps the rest of us can contribute to the finishing touches!

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I agree with magic on this. i mean we're a community and we should help each other regardless of bullshit. This was my first community project i got into (then later i got into booked, which that's not doing well at the moment). i really want to see this project get done and shipped off for everyone to play and such.

 

 

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11 hours ago, ViolentBeetle said:

Ah what the hell, I got really inspired, I'll try doing the subterranean base, got some ideas.

If need be i can play test it when you get it done, or i can help make some area if you need extra hands on it.

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On 10/28/2022 at 12:42 PM, Ofisil said:

 

Sure...

The reason?

 

I want my map removed because the map is trash. 

 

18 hours ago, magicsofa said:


They are pulling maps from all current projects in what appears to be an effort to make some kind of statement about Doomworld, which is laughable because they didn't bother to explain what that statement is supposed to be. My first suspicion is always the "you're all libtards" angle, happens on every forum with rules against discrimination/flaming/etc

 

As a transwoman, I guarantee you're far off the mark.  But thanks for presuming, always appreciated  

Edited by Thelokk

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Hi all.

Please proceed with personal, political and ideological discussions on other threads, to keep the focus here on the project :)

Thank you all :)

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20 minutes ago, Azuris said:

Hi all.

Please proceed with personal, political and ideological discussions on other threads, to keep the focus here on the project :)

Thank you all :)

Agreed

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So what maps need to be finished? I know map 15 by @eLeR Creative said he was almost done. I don't know about DFF's map, same with map 21 and i know ofisil was doing map 26.

 

So if Ofisil ok with it i think we can take the map slots and get them finished when anyone has free time on there hands. I mean if it really comes down to we do a something like pass the map around and everyone who is available to do work on bits of a map and such, just an idea i've tossed around before. 

 

I agree with Azuris, we need to focus more on the project then what ever else is going on. I could make a simple template for someone for what ever map that needs to be done and they can take it from there, just a suggestion.

 

Anyways i can help in anyways possible, my personal project i'm working on don't have a deadline so i'm free for what ever.

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I'm only waiting on @eLeR Creative's map and a replacement of Thelokk's map, so no free slots for now.

 

@Thelokk if it was trash it wouldn't be accepted here :D

I understand that you are now better as a mapper, and as such don't want this older sample to "represent" you, but that's a kind of logic that does more harm (to you) than good.

If that was the case, I would never have finished my megawad, since each map was basically an improvement on the last one.

 

In any case thanx for sticking with us as long as you did.

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Hi. Attached is a test version of the map No. 15. I am asking you for tests to take a fresh look at it.
@Ofisil I tried to do the classic DII functions, but I can't verify it exactly. I tested the map in PRBoom and except for a few visual artifacts, everything works fine. However, if I missed something, indicate where exactly, I will correct it.

MAP15test.zip

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1 hour ago, eLeR Creative said:

Hi. Attached is a test version of the map No. 15. I am asking you for tests to take a fresh look at it.
@Ofisil I tried to do the classic DII functions, but I can't verify it exactly. I tested the map in PRBoom and except for a few visual artifacts, everything works fine. However, if I missed something, indicate where exactly, I will correct it.

MAP15test.zip

I tried it out and i really like the theme of it but there we're some issues i did run into.

 

1. No arch-viles. I understand it was a test map and everything but the arch viles come later unless ofisil said other wise. Change the archies out with lost souls in the room with the lava where you get the red key card.

 

2. (i'll add a picture to this one) There we're a of halls of mirrors in the lava/brick room. Might want to fix that when updating/reworking parts of the maps.

 

3. I couldn't find the normal exit, did you include it or is that still a wip? I found the secret exit but i have to no clip to find it.

 

4. Although i love the map......i felt kinda lost trying to figure out where to go and what to do. Like when i got the red key card and i went up to hit the switch (the demon face on top of the mnt. as soon you get the key). i couldn't figure out what to do next.

 

5. How am i supposed to get to the secret exit door? like i said before i know it's a test map but i hate no clipping maps if i don't have too.

 

6. When you drop down into the river you should add teleporters or steps so the player can get back up and not get stuck in there.

 

Overall besides those comments and your still working on it, i really like it. You'll need to iron out the kinks in it and change some enemies around but i can't wait for the final version of this map to come out.

 

p.s. Here's that pic i was talking about:

 

 

HOM 1.jpg

Edited by xScavengerWolfx

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49 minutes ago, xScavengerWolfx said:

I tried it out and i really like the theme of it but there we're some issues i did run into.

 

1. No arch-viles. I understand it was a test map and everything but the arch viles come later unless ofisil said other wise. Change the archies out with lost souls in the room with the lava where you get the red key card.

 

2. (i'll add a picture to this one) There we're a of halls of mirrors in the lava/brick room. Might want to fix that when updating/reworking parts of the maps.

 

3. I couldn't find the normal exit, did you include it or is that still a wip? I found the secret exit but i have to no clip to find it.

 

4. Although i love the map......i felt kinda lost trying to figure out where to go and what to do. Like when i got the red key card and i went up to hit the switch (the demon face on top of the mnt. as soon you get the key). i couldn't figure out what to do next.

 

5. How am i supposed to get to the secret exit door? like i said before i know it's a test map but i hate no clipping maps if i don't have too.

 

6. When you drop down into the river you should add teleporters or steps so the player can get back up and not get stuck in there.

 

Overall besides those comments and your still working on it, i really like it. You'll need to iron out the kinks in it and change some enemies around but i can't wait for the final version of this map to come out.

 

p.s. Here's that pic i was talking about:

 

 

Ad.1 What arch-viles? I deleted them a long time ago. What map did you play?
Ad.2 I know this problem.
Ad.3 The passage opens at the bottom of the river bed. I admit I exaggerated a bit - it's too hidden. I'll work on it.
Ad.4 This button opens the exit from this region. You have to go back to open the next passage in the cave by the wall. I don't think it's that hard to find.
Ad.5 You have to find 7 secrets to find and open the passage.
Ad.6 In the trough there is an entrance up the stairs (narrow, but there are)

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I believe the confusion comes from the fact that @eLeR Creative sent two maps for the price of one (MAP01 being the almost final product while MAP15 is a very early build of that same map)

Spoiler

 

2022-10-30.png.71d45d239e38cb1beba3a032332ee337.png1009443697_2022-10-30(1).png.5331798502ee0bb8fcb31127b7e38f66.png503932032_2022-10-30(2).png.34521337bd496b96b7fffdd31ad67aa7.png

 

 

 

 

 

With that said, here's some actual feedback of mine :

 

Excellent map, with great, tense combat and absolutely tasteful secrets. Gotta say, the moment you said all secrets were required to unlock the secret exit, you had my full attension (even though its not fully true, since you don't need the invuln secret in order to get access to said secret exit).

 

Now, the nitpicks :

 

As of now, the blue key is completly useless because A - you can easly bypass it by going for the plasma gun, and B - the lion switch that is supposed to be blue key only is marked as a red only switch, and you already have the red key by that point.

Spoiler

981016049_2022-10-30(5).png.e01f5de0a8f4feaca00f2ac8462f759e.png

 

The bars at the bottom of the river are broken. The linedefs should be flipped, otherwise the linedefs can't be activated.

Spoiler

1289954610_2022-10-30(7).png.321fab408e32e2f9f7f2bd13565605bf.png

 

This tree should be moved to somewhere else. I got soft-locked because of it.

Spoiler

2073561494_2022-10-30(6).png.e808f15b614709290f9f6aa673ef15b0.png

 

Finally, here are some more minor exemples of hall-of-mirrors effects I found while playing.

Spoiler

1048453113_2022-10-30(3).png.cca9dc3c61e26d4e73f7e1a6f692dd42.png1763551694_2022-10-30(4).png.de87b2ae837911f32e14cc50bd635732.png

 

While we're on the subject of texturing, please unpegg your door tracks, it is such a little detail, but I find it so noticable, especially in a map that otherwise looks so stellar.

Edited by Demonic Meatball

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2 hours ago, eLeR Creative said:

 

Ad.1 What arch-viles? I deleted them a long time ago. What map did you play?
Ad.2 I know this problem.
Ad.3 The passage opens at the bottom of the river bed. I admit I exaggerated a bit - it's too hidden. I'll work on it.
Ad.4 This button opens the exit from this region. You have to go back to open the next passage in the cave by the wall. I don't think it's that hard to find.
Ad.5 You have to find 7 secrets to find and open the passage.
Ad.6 In the trough there is an entrance up the stairs (narrow, but there are)

I played map15 and i though map01 was the normal doom 2 map. sorry about that. 

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On 10/29/2022 at 6:32 AM, Thelokk said:

I want my map removed because the map is trash. 

 

A trash map can be bad, but a mapper who bails out of their commitments (when that task is finished, no less) is far worse. If you want the map to be better, improve it yourself. Or ask for help. Or just learn from it and do better next time. Doing this rug-pull stunt just send the message that you aren't trustworthy. You'll never be perfect... the fact that other people want your maps in their project should help you accept that.

 

On 10/29/2022 at 6:32 AM, Thelokk said:

As a transwoman, I guarantee you're far off the mark.  But thanks for presuming, always appreciated  

 

No problem, you can expect it to happen every time you do something sudden and irrational with zero explanation

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@eLeR Creative Ok i re played it (the correct one this time) and what i said still stands about how great it looks and i do want to add that pistol starting is a pain, i know i know it's for slot 15 but it still great.

 

the only thing i will complain about is you got halls of mirrors effects in the lave room where you get the red key and the secret area when you fall into the pit in the cave. 

 

Other then that i still like it and can't wait for it to be added in to the pile :)

 

Edit: I am sorry that i played the wrong one and i kinda sounded like i was bashing but in all honesty i've been waiting to play test you map for a long time.

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@eLeR Creative, Im using PrBoom+2.6, UV

  • Thing 11 (chaingunner, near start) is stuck
  • Linedef3046 is not touching the ground like the rest of the fire portals (2nd one on the right, has a 25 offset instead of 16)
  • the fire portal hallway has some phantom node anomalies, such as areas the player cannot move through. hard to address but adjusting nodes may help. This area is also cramped with no health, forcing the player to deal with both low and medium enemies. some health bonuses in the portals or a stimpack or two could be nice.
  • Several walls in the red key area are missing textures. This area similar to the fire cave is devoid of any rations, ammo or health. Ran out of ammo in here against the hell knights. a medkit and at least 8-12 shells if not some more clips and a couple rockets would be beneficial here
  • gate textures on the dams don't translate well in some ports. for me the translucent areas were all brown. I'd recommend turning these textures to one of the two BLACKWAL textures, then adding the MIDBARS3 as a 1 pixel triangle from the base and as a proper midtex.
  • canyon after the red key switch (sector 1) was also rather stimpy for ammo and health compared to the opposition. 
  • teleporter to the megaphere secret (sector 1253, sector 1190) as well as the wall features in the secret are missing textures. Not sure how the player would find this secret as well without just pressing all of the faces. This may be fine but coinsidering its face #10 after 9 non-switch faces i doubt many would try every one while also dealing with wall monsters. I looked in DB to find this one. Maybe some small detail to indicate a visible difference.
  • Same with the green armor secret (3024, 3080).
  • sectors 913-916 have messy execution (bars locking player into flame portal tunnel). They can trigger multiple times, forcing the player to go through the whole red key area again just to get out. This should be moved to a linedef within the staircase area and trigger once (such as on linedef 2809).
  • Linedefs 3845 and 3790 for some reason open the bars mentioned above. I found a switch texture high in the ceiling but the player will never see this in any port that disables mouselook, and considering this is for limit removing ports which mostly include those that don't have mouselook other than zdoom maybe i don't think these maps should expect the player to use mouselook. Its a very strange and niche feature, that provides maybe no tangible purpose since letting the player escape the blue key area earlier than intended is just odd for 100%
  • Sectors 2081-2091 have some weird light bleeding on them. might be worth hitting these with the "make sector" tool and possibly moving the nodes around.
  • linedef 8439 has some sector bleeding on it. Move nodes to remedy
  • Thing 464 is too close to the wall (HK teleported clipped into the wall)
  • Linedefs 5275, 5263, and 5510 are misaligned (bricks on a bridge), double check that align the bridges have properly aligned bricks ( a lot of these are all misaligned. (A, SHIFT+A very helpful here)
  • Linedefs 5503 and 5489 likely have the wrong textures (TANROCK instead of BRICK7)
  • Sectors 1553 to 1556 have some nodebuilder issues (disappearing textures), adjust nodes
  • Thing 273 is underneath the floor (I'm not even sure at this point, just move it probably)
  • make another exit from sector 1485 at the other end so it can be escaped from either side. ledges here are also too tall for easy crossing of the river, amkes progression slow and tedious if stuck here.
  • Players can cheese the big caco fight in sector 2209. linedefs 10144 and 10147 are just close enough for the player to trigger then run back and stop the doors from closing, letting them funnel the cacos into the stairwell. I suggest moving these further into the room just a bit (into sector 2492)
  • ran out of ammo again once picking up the yellow key. just not enough supplies for the mass amount of hell knighs and demons.
  • heavily suggest removing a lot of the hitscanners from the tall ledges and dark windows. these chip away a lot of health and often is very hard for the player to catch them all before taking damage, much less sometimes being able to kill them easily. enemies on these ledges should likely be exclusively imps and hitscanners should remain on the lower floors or bridges. I also suggest removing many HKs from these inaccessible ledges as well as trying to kill those (especially with how limited ammo is) for 100% kills is extremely tedious
  • Note, forced to use godmode here as i had been sitting at under 10 health for  a solid majority of this later segment. Had to chainsaw 7 of the HKs to death before getting a bit more ammo from the mancubi that spawn after hitting the first switch. But ran out again as there was nothing to help with the imp wave after the 2nd switch. And this was still after ignoring 5 or so HKs from the previous canyon segment. Both platforming here and signposting about where to go next to exit is extremely obtuse and its often hard to differentiate what is decoration stonework and mandatory progression pathing. Most of this map is a bit hard to navigate in this way due to how similar everything rock is textured and designed. Aesthetically its decently pleasing but your average player could easily be stuck for a while just trying to navigate this map. For the most part it wasn't too tricky for me, but i had to look into doombuilder to figure out where to go from here. The arena is rather dark which doesn't help trying to navigate or fight either. If it were just a smidge brighter it would do leagues for just visual clarity (124-128 brightness). 
  • Linedef 5616 has some bleeding (fix by adjusting nodes)
  • As some have noted, all 3 skull doors to activate switch 13658 are facing the wrong side and are unopenable

    I know this is a quite large wall of text. I tried my best to explore every nook and cranny. I admit I had a lot of trouble with this map, being confusing, and frustratingly difficult for possibly not the greatest of reasons.. The details are impressive and its a very cool concept, and for what it is was done very meticulously, but i don't see how this map is beatable in UV without secrets, as i was below 50% health for majority of the map and usually less than 20%. I ran out of ammo at several points and some of the progression gets very muddy with the similarities of architecture. The thin walls bounce the player around like crazy and sometimes lead to snags, but usually is not an issue. Like many maps with an excessive ammount of linedefs, sectors, and vertices the nodebuilder tends to tear apart at the seams as i noticed several slime trails, invisible sectors, tutti-frutti (no texture effect) and other anomalies that makes the map look unpolished despite the very creative and meticulous detailing.

    Biggest gameplay suggestions would be to tone down the HKs or add about 20% more of all ammo in every section after the red key, as well as double the health in the map. For 235+ monsters, many being hitscanners and medium to high tier enemies (50 HKs, 22 cacos, and 18 mancs), there was only 7 medkits and 4 stimpacks for the whole map. Remove a lot of the hitscanners from very high shelves and move them down, and maybe tone down some of the larger canyon fights (and the yellow key, areas are just a bit too cramped to be filled with so many baddies). All of these changes I think would help the map flow better, faster, and overall make it more enjoyable for many players. I also noticed that (correct me if im wrong) there are no difficulty settings implemented. This map would likely be way too hard for HMP and below. I assume this will be worked on as this is the first version.
Edited by DFF

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@xScavengerWolfx

 

Ad.1 In fact, I'm sorry that I put two maps into one WAD. I've already deleted the wrong one.

Ad.2 All HOMs on the map removed (or at least those that I managed to catch)

Ad.3 Corrected. The entrance at the bottom of the river bed is now visible from above and well accentuated architecturally.

Ad.4 I added signs in the form of poles with a red / blue / yellow skull to facilitate orientation.

Ad.5 I tried to make every secret possible to trace through various types of clues.

Ad.6 In the section of the blue and yellow key, I added an additional staircase to be able to get out of the bottom of the river.

 

@Demonic Meatball

Ad.1 I've already deleted the wrong map.

Ad.2A Thank you for catching this location error. I admit I added the plasmarifle at the end and I didn't think it would break the blue key zone. I have now blocked access to the outside of the canyon.

Ad.2B I corrected it.

Ad.3 I corrected it. In addition, I extended this room because it was ugly and primitive.

Ad.4 I did not move this tree but I improved its arrangement in relation to the wall. The tree is perpendicular to the wall. I corrected other trees in a similar location. They shouldn't get you stuck now.

Ad.5 I deleted the indicated HOM's and a few others that I caught myself.

Ad.6 I corrected all door tracks.

 

@DFF

Ad.1 Chaingunner now has more freedom.

Ad.2 Fire portals are now touching the wall.

Ad.3 It seems to me that this anomaly has been fixed and it is now possible to walk freely through the corridor. Let me know if this still shows up somewhere.

Ad.4 All HOMs In this area removed. I added a few first aid kits and ammo.

Ad.5 I do not understand too much how to improve this grating on the bridge. Can you explain more or provide an example?

Ad.6 I added some ammunition in this area and the areas prior to entering this area.

Ad.7 The button that opens the secret is an anomaly in the sequence of all the reliefs in the corridor. In addition, now I slightly increased the illumination of the sector, but that's enough. It's a secret, after all. I am not going to put up a neon cowboy pointing his thumb at the entrance ;P

Ad.8 All HOMs In this area removed.

Ad.9 I corrected the closing and opening of the gate to the corridor with fire portals. Now activating the bars is a one-time operation.

Ad.10 I thought about it and actually opening the gates in secret with the switch beforehand is pointless. In addition, the location is wrong. I removed it.

Ad.11 I think I fixed this visual bug when going out to the terrace from the cave with the blue key. Correct me if it's still there.

Ad.12 Similar to the previous point.

Ad.13 Teleport destination corrected.

Ad.14 When it comes to aligning textures on the wall, it has been improved, although I still have to do some work in many places.

Ad.15 I corrected badly applied textures.

Ad.16 I repaired the bars on the bridge. Textures display correctly.

Ad.17 I changed the Imp's location but I must honestly admit that I did not verify if it changed something (I ran out of time).

Ad.18 As I wrote earlier, I added stairs in the river bed.

Ad.18 I significantly extended the distance between the bars and the activation line. I have not tested whether it is possible to cheese now.

Ad.19 I added more ammo in the yellow key area.

Ad.20 I admit, maliciously locating demons is my domain. Some players praise it, others criticize it. So far, you are the first to criticize this. If there is an overwhelming number of opinions similar to yours, I will consider changing the location of these demons.

Ad.21 In the arena with the yellow key I added a lot of decorations that should make orientation easier.

Ad.22 Corrected.

Ad.23 Corrected.

Referring to the general remarks I believe that now the map under the start pistol meets the absolute minimum, although it was not required. @Ofisil wasn't there?

 

As for the gradation of difficulty, I haven't implemented it yet. I think @Ofisil wanted the map to be designed under UV only. Correct me if I'm wrong. Of course, no problem for me to add less difficulty levels.

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2 minutes ago, eLeR Creative said:

As for the gradation of difficulty, I haven't implemented it yet. I think @Ofisil wanted the map to be designed under UV only. Correct me if I'm wrong. Of course, no problem for me to add less difficulty levels.

 

Yup. UV only. You are free to add other difficulty levels, but we'll focus on UV

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3 hours ago, Ofisil said:

 

Yup. UV only. You are free to add other difficulty levels, but we'll focus on UV

@eLeR Creative my bad, it's been so long I completely forgot this WAD had no difficulty settings. My bad in that regard.

 

I'll see if I can provide an example of cleaning up the grates on the bridges soon.

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@eLeR Creative

 

Played through V2 again, without using any secrets. Feels much better overall. The ammo balance felt a lot more generous but still restrictive enough to force the player to think about saving ammo and when to pick up more, which is a good balance. Health also helped make some of those tighter corridor fights a bit more forgiving. I still ran dry of ammo at the end and around the yellow key fight. Perhaps another box of shells in the final canyon area.

The yellow key fight feels a lot better visually. the lighting is still a bit dim for my liking but the red rock is a very nice touch in the arena, both for path clarity and just more color. I would highly suggest giving the player a soulsphere at the start of the arena, just enough to give them a boost for the multi-tiered fight, and i would add a box of shells somewhere in here and maybe another rocket box and 100 bullets. Otherwise I died several times but it felt a lot less frustrating and more deserved/fair. Very close but just a bit more ammo at the end would help.

Some minor issues still:

  • Thing 273 is still beneath the floor, I noclipped and found out this is because he somehow interacts funny with one of the sectors and can 'fall into a crack'. Adding monster block tags to the inner edge of the cave entrance fixed this (lines 10087, 10091, 10093, ect.)
  • The blue skull door at the end wouldn't open for me, not sure why since the lines look fine on doombuilder. My guess is i was blocked from hitting that switch because all the lines on those doors were set to open and it was causing an interaction issue. Changing it so only the fronts were actions fixed this (lines 14697, 14695, and 8635. these are the only ones that need the tag since the player shouldn't be able to use or need to use the other sides of these doors.
Edited by DFF

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@eLeR Creative I just noticed that your map uses a lot of skyboxes for the portals and such. For now it looks fine, but remember that in map 15 the skybox is a city, which wouldn't work as well in this situation. Unless @Ofisil plans on adding custom skyboxes, I would suggest a wall of faces (SP_FACE1) for replacement, especially if the texture is scrolling.

 

On a completely unrelated note, could you do something about the stairway to the soulsphere secret ? It's a very cramped area where you get easily stuck, especially when descending the stairs. Making it a bit wider would probably be the best solution to the problem.

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@eLeR Creative Here's a version of your map with some of the dam drains replaced with the drain midtex method i mentioned earlier. Might not work so well with the taller sections but your call. However not all source ports will use black to fill in translucent areas (sectors 855, 1485, 3255 and 3256 were added).

Link

Edited by DFF

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3 hours ago, Demonic Meatball said:

@eLeR Creative I just noticed that your map uses a lot of skyboxes for the portals and such. For now it looks fine, but remember that in map 15 the skybox is a city, which wouldn't work as well in this situation. Unless @Ofisil plans on adding custom skyboxes, I would suggest a wall of faces (SP_FACE1) for replacement, especially if the texture is scrolling.

 

On a completely unrelated note, could you do something about the stairway to the soulsphere secret ? It's a very cramped area where you get easily stuck, especially when descending the stairs. Making it a bit wider would probably be the best solution to the problem.

I think that the skybox will be changed because the city theme does not fit the canyon at all, which doomed it to a visual failure. But if it is necessary, I will correct it.

As for a narrow corridor, I did it a bit specifically to resemble squeezing through a tight crack in the rock. But if it's taken badly, I'll fix it too.

 

2 hours ago, DFF said:

@eLeR Creative Here's a version of your map with some of the dam drains replaced with the drain midtex method i mentioned earlier. Might not work so well with the taller sections but your call. However not all source ports will use black to fill in translucent areas (sectors 855, 1485, 3255 and 3256 were added).

Link

I don't think the map you uploaded has brought anything new.

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My bad, uploaded the non-edit. the link now has the modified file attached

 

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And another version with corrections.
- I changed the grating on the bridges according to @DFF directions.
- I corrected the corridor with the first secret,
- Some cosmetic fixes,
- I found and fixed some bugs,
- I added a teleport, for those who will want to get to the beginning of the river bed.
- When it comes to replacing Skyboxes, I refrained from doing so.

 

MAP15testv4.zip

Edited by eLeR Creative

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@eLeR Creative I noticed two issues, both of them being extremely minor :

 

First, sector 2765 (in the blue key room, the sector filled with imps) can not lower due to an imp (thing 200) stuck in the wall.

 

Second, the switch that lower the bars to the exit (Linedef 15695) is slightly too high. You don't really need to adress that one, it's just a bit wierd. Though, if you could mark the exit, it would be nice. As of now, the map ends a bit abruptly.

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