The Ancient Gods 2 - Impressions and Story Spoilers

[Kristian Nebula]

I didn't like the DL either, they could have got much more creative with it instead of the shield dog mechanics. I get that the dogs were there to replenish the hammer asap, but it really got tiring after a long time when it gained its health back regularly because of my bad abilities to avoid the shield charge attack, lol. It became a bloody long grind, being very very tedious in the last two stages especially (I played on Nightmare right away). Anyway, for a 2nd playthrough it should be easier. The levels gameplay I loved but it was considerably easier than DLC1, which really hit the sweet spot for me in intensity.

I also wasn't impressed of the direction the story took, Dark Lord being the creator and all and the whole earlier lore being a deception of the Dark Lord basically. It had seeds for so much more and had me speculating Dark Lord being a lower creator god created by the Father to create Jekkad/Hell, and I suspected Doom Slayer being a similar being, although amnesic, for the Earth Realm. Would have made the Ancient Gods -name for the DLC's have a whole new meaning to it.

[Quasar]

Deleted after making it to the third round finally and seeing the cutscene there. Either way this boss is still bullshit and I still can't finish the game. I am so fucking furious.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Quasar

[Frank Harper]

The funniest thing - if they just dont pull out that twist with Dark Lord being "true Father", plot seems to have more sense - at least to me.

[BetaMarine]

1 hour ago, Quasar said:

Deleted after making it to the third round finally and seeing the cutscene there. Either way this boss is still bullshit and I still can't finish the game. I am so fucking furious.

I suggest you take a chill pill, broski. It’s over go to sleep

Edited March 19, 2021 by BetaMarine

[Quasar]

Just now, BetaMarine said:

I suggest you take a chill pill, broski

Don't tell me what to do. This is the most disappointed I've been in years with something in a series that I otherwise love. The design of this boss is unfair to people without lightning reflexes and laser focus. It's goddamn stupid to be able to get through the entire DLC with 6 lives left and then be thrown into a boss fight that is literally impossible no matter how many lives you have. Not because it's actually "difficult" in the traditional sense but because it is designed to punish even the slightest mistake by TOTALLY REMOVING all your progress. I can't stand that. It pushes every button in the fiber of my being. I am disgusted that they felt like this was the proper way to end the series and that they continue over and over to ignore the concept of skill levels being anything more than how much damage you take from enemies, as if concepts such as reaction time windows, attack ranges, and damage opportunity frequency make NO difference.

 

I might honestly uninstall the game because I don't need to be spending this much time thinking about it.

[BetaMarine]

12 minutes ago, Quasar said:

Don't tell me what to do. This is the most disappointed I've been in years with something in a series that I otherwise love.
 

I am disgusted that they felt like this was the proper way to end the series and that they continue over and over to ignore the concept of skill levels being anything more than how much damage you take from enemies, as if concepts such as reaction time windows, attack ranges, and damage opportunity frequency make NO difference.

 

I might honestly uninstall the game because I don't need to be spending this much time thinking about it.

This is why I don’t get overly-stressed about franchises. I used to be a Star Wars fan, and well if I took that seriously and emotionally I’d be in an insane asylum. You’re a moderator, you should know this. Take it easy, we still have doom mods and they are not going anywhere, plus ID Software did release that Doom 64 port on steam last year, so it’s not all blunders.

Edited March 19, 2021 by BetaMarine

[LVENdead]

I'm honestly surprised people are saying they spent like an hour on this boss fight. Granted, I only did it on UV for my first playthrough, but I thought it was stupidly easy for a final final final boss. The sword attacks are fairly telegraphed and also not that quick, you just dash backwards away from the swipes, and the shield bash I never found particularly difficult to avoid either. Each time I stunned him with the hammer I was able to DPS him down at least 50% health. I died on my very first attempt in phase 1 just because I wasn't really thinking about what I was doing, but my second attempt I was able to beat him in, like maybe 10 minutes? Not trying to brag or put anyone down, just a bit surprised.

[Ofisil]

@LVENdead yeah, he was quite easy and anti-climatic. I just found him boring. I just went through the motions, not really feeling as if I was using my skill, like with the final boss of TAG1

[Xfing]

Ok, if Davoth wanted to use the Slayer to destroy the Maykrs, then why was he all like "noooooooo!"when the Slayer killed Khan Maykr? 

[hurricane hoatzine]

Well since doom have ended someone new need take charge of doom games that will make all fan happy something like doom 64 or maybe just maybe doom 3

[LVENdead]

11 minutes ago, Xfing said:

Ok, if Davoth wanted to use the Slayer to destroy the Maykrs, then why was he all like "noooooooo!"when the Slayer killed Khan Maykr? 

 

This is bugging the crap out of me.

[D4NUK1]

Damn, i also beated the boss fairly easy in my 4-5 try. UV, maybe it's because im used now to twich-reflex games.

Either way, more lower difficultys should have a more fair window to attack, if it's the same speed that's the one of UV.

[Linguica]

33 minutes ago, Xfing said:

Ok, if Davoth wanted to use the Slayer to destroy the Maykrs, then why was he all like "noooooooo!"when the Slayer killed Khan Maykr? 

 

Uhhh he realized he wanted to be the one to do it. Or whatever.

[Vic Vos]

Dark Lord wasn't really that hard for me, just somewhat frustrating when he recharged like 30-40% of his health when getting shot outside of "green light". At any rate, I managed to beat him on NM dying about 5 times or so.

Pretty disappointed it wasn't a PVP-style fight - would've been real cool for his final phase. Dusk's Jakob still reigns supreme.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Vic Vos

[Rudolph]

8 hours ago, Doom64hunter said:

The ending of TAG2 quite literally spells it out that Doomguy was created by Davoth.

 

Honestly, the more I think about the lore the less sense it makes. You pretty much have to ignore the story because it's totally inconsistent bullshit.

Also, I have to wonder about the canonicity of that unused line that reveals he is from another dimension; because if it is canon, then Doomguy could not possibly have been created by Davoth, or at least this dimension's Davoth.

 

In any case, I am still so confused about Davoth looking like Doomguy.

[D4NUK1]

4 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Also, I have to wonder about the canonicity of that unused line that reveals he is from another dimension; because if it is canon, then Doomguy could not possibly have been created by Davoth, or at least this dimension's Davoth.

 

In any case, I am still so confused about Davoth looking like Doomguy.

We can speculate that, Doomguy it's Davoth in Human Race, that's why shares a lot of phisical apparence.

 

[D.Vile]

1 hour ago, Xfing said:

Ok, if Davoth wanted to use the Slayer to destroy the Maykrs, then why was he all like "noooooooo!"when the Slayer killed Khan Maykr? 

 

The writers were obviously making shit up as they went along and did not think this through.

[Cantleylads]

11 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Well, then why they tease these stuff in the trailer if they deliberately plan to not deliver? 

 

The gameplay loop has already been established. Almost zero gameplay mechanics were shown, only cut scenes. The DLC is intended for the established audience that are familiar with the gameplay. At no point was there any ambiguity between what was or wasn't a cutscene, aside from the hammer - which wasn't particularly revealing since it cut before the animation completed.

 

I'm sure we'll probably share similar thoughts regarding whether or not DLC warrants a 2 minute trailer in the first place, but to expect an entirely new style of gameplay out of it is either comically contrarian or utterly naive.

 

Obviously in your case it's the former

[Taurus Daggerknight]

Got to the boss fight last night. I enjoyed the first and second rounds, but third onward it's certainly going into BS territory. This is easily the weakest part of the DLC, and needs some tweaking. As others have said, it isn't so much that it's hard, more that any progress gets taken away just for being slightly grazed. It doesn't help that both of his healing attack animations look almost identical, except without the green eyes.

 

Also; screw that shield bash of his. It's annoying. 

 

Also really dislike when he starts summoning top=tier shadow demon things. Basically the only way to deal with them is the hammer, which means you get back some with regards to being able to use it on him, which.... is just ugh. 

[Linguica]

[Hunting4r2d2]

29 minutes ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

Got to the boss fight last night. I enjoyed the first and second rounds, but third onward it's certainly going into BS territory. This is easily the weakest part of the DLC, and needs some tweaking. As others have said, it isn't so much that it's hard, more that any progress gets taken away just for being slightly grazed. It doesn't help that both of his healing attack animations look almost identical, except without the green eyes.

 

Also; screw that shield bash of his. It's annoying. 

 

Also really dislike when he starts summoning top=tier shadow demon things. Basically the only way to deal with them is the hammer, which means you get back some with regards to being able to use it on him, which.... is just ugh. 

I agree. What makes the Marauder work is that you can actively bait him into doing his green eye attack, making fights with him feel much more active. Meanwhile, with the Dark Lord it just feels like I'm dodging attacks, waiting for one particular attack. It doesn't feel engaging at all, and I'm kinda of glad it's own level so I can play Immora without having to refight him. The fight is really the only major gameplay issue I have with this DLC, which is a shame because it is the final fight.

[MrHofmann]

 

13 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Well, then why they tease these stuff in the trailer if they deliberately plan to not deliver? 

 

Why would you even expect it to be the other way? It is obvious that it is only marketed that way to attract kids. Doom will always be about a guy involved in great things, with an emphasis on the ONE guy. Hugo Martin said this himself and I'm glad he gets it. Just keep that Avengers bullshit out of Doom. Using it in the background only as bait is fine with me.

 

11 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

A lot? Most of the people I see praise Doom Eternal. the general gaming community love eternal (mostly, since the Marauder is mostly hated even there)

Funnily enough most of the hate I see is mostly here in this forum.

 

Doom Eternal is way more popular than 2016 was. The more a thing gets popular the more it gets hated. Not that the number of haters grows, they only get louder. Then there is also a lot of the "I am the 2016 guy, I was playing Doom before it was cool." syndrome which I'm seeing lately. Honestly, I can't wait for the next Doom game to come out only to see this same thing again, which WILL happen regardless of what the next Doom game will be, then Eternal can be looked at as the older and more cool one.

10 hours ago, DooM Bear said:

As for the “vast majority prefer 2016” thing, @Sergeant_Mark_IV Put up the steam user review scores earlier in the thread:

 

“2016: 96% positive
Eternal: 90% positive
TAG1: 74% positive.
TAG2 is currently at 86%, but as the second wave of people that were less hyped plays it, it's expected to lower.”

 

So this means 1 in 10 people that played Eternal (base game) didn’t think it was great while only ~1 in 20 didn’t like 2016. 

 

While I definitely wouldn’t call it anything close to a vast majority, it is, to my mind, definitely some solid evidence to suggest people preferred 2016 over Eternal :-)

 

This is actually expected because Eternal is more popular than 2016 and at the same time 2016 is a game for everyone but Eternal isn't. Popularity is not a good influence on quality metrics because people tend to conform and it skews the result. I would argue that a lot of players played Eternal just because it was talked about (much more than 2016 was), not that they enjoy heavy action shooters. When you combine popularity with a game that is not for everyone, you get these stats. In any case everything in the 90%+ range is on the same level.

Edited March 19, 2021 by MrHofmann

[DuckReconMajor]

made it to phase 4 yay

 

13 hours ago, STILES said:

@DuckReconMajor @Quasar

  Reveal hidden contents

The easiest strategy for me personally in that fight is to use the "blood-fueled" rune and stick to the edges of the arena, constantly glory-killing the possessed spawning in while keeping your distance from the Dark Lord.  The blood-fueled rune alone makes this fight considerably more manageable when trying to instigate and avoid the Dark Lord's attacks, the saving-throw rune also really helps when you're inbetween waves and haven't hit a checkpoint. 

 

Since the waves of possessed are never ending, you want to make sure you are constantly glory-killing them to activate the much needed speed boost for the vast majority of the fight. If your speed-boost begins to wear off while you are trying to get close, you're better off going back to the edge of the arena to get another glory kill to try again, rather than taking the chance.

 

Once you have a few possessed glory-killed through your plasma rifle or heavy cannon to soften them up first (both to charge your hammer and getting your speed boost), you want to carefully close the distance to him and get a feet away from him to instigate his "green light" attack to flash.  If you keep your distance he'll never make his green light attack.  Be careful not to get adjacent to him though as he'll shock you with his shield.

 

After getting a few hits on him through quick-swapping, immediately use your hammer to stun him while dealing SSG + Ballista or whatever combo you use.  After his stun duration is over, immediately go back to the edge of the arena and repeat step 1.

 

In the later stages you particularly want to keep an eye on your hammer more for the heavier waves of "spirits" he sends out on you, all of which can be killed by a well placed hammer shot.

 

 

Thank you for the tip. I have been trying this rune method you outline but the small duration of speed boost doesn't seem to be worth the time swapping weapons. I'm getting better with it though.

 

13 hours ago, Archvile Hunter said:

Damn, there's a lot of hate on the Dark Lord fight in here. It is my favorite boss fight in Doom Eternal. He does punish screwing up more than any other boss in the game, since if you fail to dodge his attacks or try hitting him when he isn't flashing green he heals. It means you can't brute force your way through it, and you have to learn his patterns to succeed.

 

I am a bit of a masochist though, and I don't mind dying over and over on a tough boss fight.

 

The thing is i'd be much more willing to put up with it if I died a lot more.

When you die the level re-loads and you get a bit of time to reflect, what went wrong and how to deal with it next time.

The "make a small mistake and it heals" nonsense just strips away any sense of accomplishment you felt from getting a hit in on him.

It just feels like they either didn't playtest enough or they deliberately prioritized anger over fun here.

 

In any case, part of what I'm trying to get across is I don't mind if the boss is like this on higher difficulties. But i've always felt Eternal's ITYTD is a bit too hard for people just trying to get through to see the story and the level design, and this particular fight takes it a few steps too far even from that.

[Doom64hunter]

3 hours ago, jamondemarnatural said:

We can speculate that, Doomguy it's Davoth in Human Race, that's why shares a lot of phisical apparence.

 

I think a more likely explanation is that Davoth created Doomguy in his own image.

[Stoltzmann]

At this point if Id announced new doom game I would not be excited at all, after disappointing TAG2 I have enough of this... universe and I am not looking forward to more doom and if the next game continues the trend that TAG 1 started I am not buying any new Id's game.

 

I am afriad that Hugo goes full Romero like he is the smartest and unerring Pope of game design.

 

Maybe gameplay in a next game will consist only of parrying attacks and dodging, "doom: the dark lord dies twice" lol

 

Eternal was criticized for being too cartoony since the beginning so Hugo literally added circling stars and birdies above demons' heads.

Most people didn't like platforming so in the DLCs they doubled it.

Didn't like the lore? Too bad, here is ten times more even worse lore in TAG 1 and 2.

Some people say that TAG 1 is too hard because they don't know how to change the difficulty, so we must completely nerf it six months after launch and also let's make TAG 2 the epic conlusion of the slayer's saga too easy except the final boss to piss off even more fans.

 

 

[lazygecko]

The new Doomguy origin is some real midichlorian tier garbage. Eternal and its DLC has become like exhibit A for why I don't want everything demystified in fiction, how often it ends up retroactively watering things down and devaluing them. You just can't trust the writers (or the people directing them) to handle these things gracefully.

It's pretty clear to me now how the appeal of Doom 2016's story was a complete fluke. In all likelihood that game was going to shape up like yet another Doom 3 tonally for most of its development, and then near the end of it they just decided to throw in the zany "too angry to die" meta-laced Doomguy as a wedge in all the worldbuilding they had already constructed, and that kind of juxtaposition just turned out to mesh really well. But now they have pretty much erased every trace of that unique direction, which makes me feel deflated and not have any real excitement over whatever they're doing in the future.

Edited March 19, 2021 by lazygecko

[Robot_Joe]

the story is such doodoo garbage and if they make a new game I hope it's just a reboot and I hope they keep it simple. There doesn't need to be all this explaining, I really don't think we need to know stuff like how demons are made or how souls are extracted or what actually lies at the heart of hell, Hell should be this like infinite horrible thing I think but they made it so.. mundane and small. At the center of it all it's just a sci-fi city, nothing supernatural or unfathomable here. 

[Ofisil]

1 minute ago, Robot_Joe said:

the story is such doodoo garbage and if they make a new game I hope it's just a reboot and I hope they keep it simple. There doesn't need to be all this explaining, I really don't think we need to know stuff like how demons are made or how souls are extracted or what actually lies at the heart of hell, Hell should be this like infinite horrible thing I think but they made it so.. mundane and small. At the center of it all it's just a sci-fi city, nothing supernatural or unfathomable here. 

 

Doom 2016 was perfect with presentation/lore - it told you enough, but not TOO much.

DE felt as if Hugo's uncontrolled nerd within him was unleased, but it was still toleable, and even enjoyable at times.

TAG1 was the begining of the end - rushed, and throwing way too much at you lore-wise.

TAG2 was the final nail in the sarcophagus (heh, funny guy). The finale was actually great in concept, but the execution was bad, bad, bad - the writer(s) clearly made things up, and in a hurry, ruining the fantastic, and more "conservative" start of the Slayer's journey.

[Taurus Daggerknight]

The lack of anything supernatural beyond "Uh, magic I guess" has been bugging me for a bit too. I always loved how Hell had tech, but it was also something that defied logic and reason. It's also supposed to evoke cruelty and harsh brutality; the cybernetics aren't supposed to look clean like on the cyber-baron. It's supposed to look painful, very much like  the Strogg (who themselves are basically a visual off-shoot of OG Doom's foes).

 

Hell in general has been made into "some place that folks go to because of a corporate deal", essentially. Which takes away from the sheer horror of it, which was present even in the most off-the-wall takes on Doom of yore. However much of a comic book Doom might be said to be, Hell was always the dimension of the damned; a  place of pure evil that cannot be reasoned with outside of dubious vows of servitude. 

 

IMO; making Samuel Hayden a sereph was a HUGE misstep, and made the entirety of 2016 essentially pointless. At this point, it almost feels as if Eternal is trying to retcon its own predecessor, which is baffling to say the least. Let's not even get into how VEGA is really an over-god like thing... 

 

Eternal has been -amazing- on a strictly gameplay and visual feast level. I love playing it, love the flow of combat (barring some BS encounters in TAG 1 and the end of TAG 2), glad they made it, all that good warm and fluffy stuff... but really, can we please go back to the actual setting of the UAC being a corporation that -UNWITTINGLY- broke the seal of reality and let something unreasonably dreadful in? I know some folk will say "that's Quake", but frankly, no, that was Doom as well, whether it was serious or comical. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Taurus Daggerknight

[RougeSlayer96]

8 minutes ago, Taurus Daggerknight said:

The lack of anything supernatural beyond "Uh, magic I guess" has been bugging me for a bit too. I always loved how Hell had tech, but it was also something that defied logic and reason. It's also supposed to evoke cruelty and harsh brutality; the cybernetics aren't supposed to look clean like on the cyber-baron. It's supposed to look painful, very much like  the Strogg (who themselves are basically a visual off-shoot of OG Doom's foes).

 

Hell in general has been made into "some place that folks go to because of a corporate deal", essentially. Which takes away from the sheer horror of it, which was present even in the most off-the-wall takes on Doom of yore. However much of a comic book Doom might be said to be, Hell was always the dimension of the damned; a  place of pure evil that cannot be reasoned with outside of dubious vows of servitude. 

 

IMO; making Samuel Hayden a sereph was a HUGE misstep, and made the entirety of 2016 essentially pointless. At this point, it almost feels as if Eternal is trying to retcon its own predecessor, which is baffling to say the least. Let's not even get into how VEGA is really an over-god like thing... 

 

Eternal has been -amazing- on a strictly gameplay and visual feast level. I love playing it, love the flow of combat (barring some BS encounters in TAG 1 and the end of TAG 2), glad they made it, all that good warm and fluffy stuff... but really, can we please go back to the actual setting of the UAC being a corporation that -UNWITTINGLY- broke the seal of reality and let something unreasonably dreadful in? I know some folk will say "that's Quake", but frankly, no, that was Doom as well, whether it was serious or comical. 

Even though I was loving the direction Eternal base campaign took Doom in both lore and gameplay, I must admit that AGp2 really fumbled everything. Like I would preferred if the whole thing with the DL was postponed until the next game or so while the dlc could of been given focus towards something else. I agree that making Samuel and Samur the same person really do messy thing quite a bit, would of been cooler if Samuel and Samur was two different characters that knew of each other's existence while also working together behind the scene but also ironically not being able to tolerate eachother.