DE makes me so unreasonably mad [rant]

[OliveTree]

Hey please be well 129, ik it can be hard trying to accept a distance from something like this even in spite of people urging you to just "find another game". It's an involved process and I wish you luck in coming to peace with that

[Zulk RS]

Again can't comment on NuDoom Lore but I honestly have a like for Classic Doom lore (or maybe it's the nostalgia talking. Who knows)

 

Barring some things that can be chalked up to 1-2 word typos, it's consistent for the most part.

 

Doomguy was a marine sent to Phobos. He finds out everyone has been kill by demenz. He kills the Demenz. He goes to hell to kill the Demenz in their home. Gets back to Earth but sadly, Demenz follow him. He kills Demenz on Earth. Goes to Hell again to kill IoS. Gets back home. Earth is rebuilt and Doomguy was chilling when suddenly Hell shows up, this time in a massive spaceship. Doomguy kills the Demenz again. Doomguy is now getting sick of Demons and starting to get PTSD. Demenz show up again and he kills them again. Finally, one more time he learns about Demenz, this time in an irradiated tech base on Mars. Goes there and kills the Demenz. Goes to hell and kills Demenz there again. This time he goes, "Fuck it!" and stays in Hell to make sure Demenz don't attack anymore.

[snapshot]

Just have fun and don't overthink it, if a game doesn't click with you then it's time to let it go and play something else.

I recently finished playing the new TR Trilogy and I barely remember anything about the story because I was just having too much fun raiding tombs, discovering new artifacts, locations, climbing, swimming, solving puzzles and taking in the views as a British archeologist with daddy issues.

[Rudolph]

41 minutes ago, Zulk RS said:

Doomguy was a marine sent to Phobos. He finds out everyone has been kill by demenz. He kills the Demenz. He goes to hell to kill the Demenz in their home. Gets back to Earth but sadly, Demenz follow him. He kills Demenz on Earth. Goes to Hell again to kill IoS. Gets back home. Earth is rebuilt and Doomguy was chilling when suddenly Hell shows up, this time in a massive spaceship. Doomguy kills the Demenz again. Doomguy is now getting sick of Demons and starting to get PTSD. Demenz show up again and he kills them again. Finally, one more time he learns about Demenz, this time in an irradiated tech base on Mars. Goes there and kills the Demenz. Goes to hell and kills Demenz there again. This time he goes, "Fuck it!" and stays in Hell to make sure Demenz don't attack anymore.

Doomguy becoming the new lord of Hell and defending it from an invasion from the UAC or the Heavens would be a good premise for a Doom game.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Rudolph

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

5 hours ago, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

 Id Software what happened to you where story was even supposed to matter in a Doom game?

I have been for half a decade saying that a hardline Christian shouldn' t be in charge of Doom's lore and he shouldn't be shoving his "Doomguy is literally Jesus" point of view into everyone's throat. But everyone calls me cocky because of that.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Sergeant_Mark_IV

[Scrabbs]

It's really evident martin wants to work on warhammer, so he just made doom war hammer lite. But, you are right if there's one thing I can't stand is overly detailed lore that's so disconnected from everything. It seems specifically the lore in the new doom was just made to for youtubers making videos about stuff that makes absolutely no sense.

[chemo]

1 hour ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

I have been for half a decade saying that a hardline Christian shouldn' t be in charge of Doom's lore and he shouldn't be shoving his "Doomguy is literally Jesus" point of view into everyone's throat. But everyone calls me cocky because of that.

Huh?

[Mr. Freeze]

I miss when Hell was a nightmarish dimension of pure evil and existential horror instead of a edgy, firey romper room 

[Mayomancer]

Agree on the point that, while Doom 2016's lore felt really solid, they decided to double down on Eternal on such a scale they seem to just be putting every idea that sounds kinda cool into it. I would have preferred something with a really straight to the point scope. That said, the gameplay may not be for everyone but feels well tuned to me, the environments look really cool, the weapons etc are nice... The only thing i really hated was the intern, why the fuck put some stupid self-insert character for some random frontend web developer into the game?

 

But yeah as a lot of people have already said, don't feel forced to play a game you don't enjoy, take a break, do other stuff

[seed]

2 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

I miss when Hell was a nightmarish dimension of pure evil and existential horror instead of a edgy, firey romper room 

 

Kinda sorta same, I miss that take on hell in Doom (that was every bit as edgy tho, if not even more so), but I'm equally fine with what has been happening in new Doom, save for 2016, wasn't a fan of its atmosphere.

 

Eternal seems to continue to be just as divisive as it was even before it actually came out. In some ways I like it more than 2016, while others not so much, such as the tone of the two. That being said, after the base game I've kinda lost my interest in it, haven't even bothered to check how the DLCs look and play like, I guess I'm not that interested in the game anymore.

 

But OP, please don't care so much for a franchise, it will only do you harm. To an extent i can relate as I kinda sorta did the same in the past with HL and I started having a salty relationship with it after constant secrecy on its future from Valve, to the point I almost gave up on it as a whole. If you're not enjoying where things are going with Doom, it may be a good time to stop or take a break from it and focus on other games or activities instead, otherwise you will end up hating it, at least the new games, that is.

[roadworx]

can't you just...y'know...ignore the story?

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

7 hours ago, chemo said:

Huh?

That was a deliberately exaggerated joke.

Hugo is a Christian, but he can't set his religion apart from his work.
Doomguy was conceived as a classical blue collar hero. A normal man inserted into a terrible situation. Inspired by Ash from Evil Dead, and according to John Romero, he was just supposed to be literally you.
There is an interview in which Hugo goes to ramble about how he thinks Robocop was meant to symbolize Jesus and in one scene he is "betrayed the cops just like how Jesus was betrayed by Judas and then he rises again" (I'm pretty sure that was the last thing in the world Verhoeven wanted to express with that scene, because well, he is an atheist) and he thought Doomguy should be the same thing (why????????). Despite saying "He wouldn't say what Doomslayer meant for him" I believe it's pretty clear from the game's lore that he is a very strong allusion to Jesus. Turning Doomguy into a literal God effectively killed the original character. This is specially bad because he changed a character that he didn't create.


Not to mention how weird is to have people putting their religions in a fantasy videogame. Like, imagine if Sandy Petersen tried to convert you to Mormonism with his maps, or if Carmack tried to prove god doesn't exists with Quake's code.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Sergeant_Mark_IV

[Vic Vos]

3 minutes ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

That was a deliberately exaggerated joke.

Hugo is a Christian, but he can't set his religion apart from his work.
Doomguy was conceived as a classical blue collar hero. A normal man inserted into a terrible situation. Inspired by Ash from Evil Dead, and according to John Romero, he was just supposed to be literally you.
There is an interview in which Hugo goes to ramble about how he thinks Robocop was meant to symbolize Jesus and in one scene he is "betrayed the cops just like how Jesus was betrayed by Judas" (I'm pretty sure that was the last thing in the world Verhoeven wanted to express with that scene) and he thought Doomguy should be the same thing (why????????). Despite saying "He wouldn't say what Doomslayer meant for him" I believe it's pretty clear from the game's lore that he is a very strong allusion to Jesus. Turning Doomguy into a literal God effectively killed the original character. This is specially bad because he changed a character that he didn't create.

Not to mention how weird is to have people putting their religions in a fantasy videogame. Like, imagine if Sandy Petersen tried to convert you to Mormonism with his maps, or if Carmack tried to prove god doesn't exists with Quake's code.

Oh wow, I wasn't even aware of that.

[Major Arlene]

I know I joke a lot that Doom is a "Christian" game because you're killing demons but I didn't think a dev was actually going to use that seriously...

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

6 minutes ago, Vic Vos said:

Oh wow, I wasn't even aware of that.

Didn't you notice the weird audio logs in the last levels of Eternal of a female scientist affirming that Doomguy may be a god and this has her "beliefs in science" shaken?

Edited March 20, 2021 by Sergeant_Mark_IV

[Vic Vos]

1 minute ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Didn't you notice the weird audio logs in the last levels of Eternal of a female scientist affirming that Doomguy may be a god and this has her "beliefs in science" shaken?

I was more busy actually playing the game rather than collecting stuff/listen to stuff. Granted, I did hear them later on Youtube, but no correlations entered my mind then.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Vic Vos

[jazzmaster9]

The game portrayed Doom Slayer more of a Rouge Vigilante than a Jesus Analogue. He pretty much (mostly) did what he wanted with no regard for higher authority which is the opposite of how Christianity is where you serve a higher power and not yourself interest.

 

I personally cannot see the Christian Influences especially since the Main Criticism of Eternal is that Hell because an Alien planet than Satan's Domain.

Edited March 20, 2021 by jazzmaster9

[Zulk RS]

21 minutes ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

There is an interview in which Hugo goes to ramble about how he thinks Robocop was meant to symbolize Jesus and in one scene he is "betrayed the cops just like how Jesus was betrayed by Judas" (I'm pretty sure that was the last thing in the world Verhoeven wanted to express with that scene) and he thought Doomguy should be the same thing (why????????). Despite saying "He wouldn't say what Doomslayer meant for him" I believe it's pretty clear from the game's lore that he is a very strong allusion to Jesus. Turning Doomguy into a literal God effectively killed the original character. This is specially bad because he changed a character that he didn't create.

 

Wait... forgive my cluelessness but I was under the impression that Doom Slayer and Doom Guy aren't the same people anymore. I only half remember Doom lore videos but wasn't Doom Guy a human marine from Earth while Doom Slayer was basically a "Night Sentinel" or something like that which I thought was like an alien super soldier.

 

Unless we're following Skillsaw's Valiant lore, I don't remember Hell being able to change your genetics to make you a completely different species.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Zulk RS

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

42 minutes ago, Zulk RS said:

 

Wait... forgive my cluelessness but I was under the impression that Doom Slayer and Doom Guy aren't the same people anymore

Aparently, he is.
 

 

53 minutes ago, Major Arlene said:

I know I joke a lot that Doom is a "Christian" game because you're killing demons but I didn't think a dev was actually going to use that seriously...

A long time ago I remember seeing priests debating in a religious forum explaining why Doom is an atheistic game: You can only overcome evil by being a good Christian, being submissive to God, and doing good ((John14:6) The way to Heaven is only through Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ alone. Our Lord Jesus Christ is Himself the way to Heaven. He does not merely show the way; He is the way. Salvation is only in the person of Jesus Christ.). The idea that evil is something that you can "shoot until it dies" is purely secularistic. Doom is like a gateway to atheism, because it portrays a man fighting Hell by himself without the help of God.

But if you make Doomguy an allusion to Christ, and it's not just a regular man taking arms against evil anymore, but Jesus saving mankind from evil, you revert that.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Sergeant_Mark_IV

[Robot_Joe]

Them taking a hard turn away from the supernatural/spiritual aspects of hell and all that makes more sense if that's true. 

 

[Zulk RS]

28 minutes ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Aparently, he is.
 

 

Huh. Neat. It reads just a tad bit fan-fictiony but we can't all expect to produce literary masterpieces set in the Doom Universe like "Repercussions of Evil"

[Scrabbs]

2 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

that Doomguy may be a god and this has her "beliefs in science" shaken?

How did the proven existence of hell not do that already lol

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

6 minutes ago, Scrabbs said:

How did the proven existence of hell not do that already lol

Science is a method of determining if something is true or false based on evidence. It's not a religion. It's "resolve" can't be "shaken" because it literally doesn't exists.
The existence of hell, demons, and even a creator wouldn't change the validity of the scientific method. Peer-reviewed articles on thousands of subjects won't instantly stop being valid. The CREATOR of the modern scientific method was a catholic priest who believed in heaven and hell.

It's just Hugo being cringe and trying to throw jabs at atheists.

[jazzmaster9]

I'm really liking this "Doom Eternal is a Christian game" Conspiracy Theory play out. Really good read so far could make a good youtube video with an appropriate clickbait thumbnail.

Edited March 20, 2021 by jazzmaster9

[0o0[ULTIM4TE]L1FE[F0RM]0o0]

On 3/19/2021 at 3:13 PM, jazzmaster9 said:

I would rather the next Doom game be some thing completely new again, Like how Different Doom Eternal was to Doom 2016. No need to for them to resort to using "the good old days" and instead expand on the series.

 

we already have Doom 3 and Doom 2

Yes, exactly, I agree with that especially considering the fact there are like thousands of user-made campaigns already that, in a way, are just more of Doom 2... It's like there are thousands of DLC's for it that are all free and are mostly a hundred times better than the original and also a lot longer and bigger. It's just really insane if you think about it... you could play Doom 2 every day for hours, and I'm sure you could keep playing non-stop for years if you play like 12 hours a day because there are just that many actually really good campaigns for it! The least thing id Software should do now is give us more Doom 2. It would be remembered because it's from Doom 2 but it would be something like Plutonia or Final Doom... it's just another Doom WAD, Plutonia is a REALLY GOOD Wad, but also just another Doom 2 WAD, or maybe another Final Doom WAD, but honestly Final Doom doesn't really have that much more stuff than Doom 2 if anything at all... so it is, in a way, just more of the same, really...

 

I personally think that Id Software should make another intense game but after Doom Eternal and 2016 and also Doom 3 I literally have no clue what they should do... all I could think of is fixing some of the issues I have with Eternal... I always thought that having a chainsaw that reloads is a little bit against the concept of the game though. They don't want you to have ammo but they give you a chainsaw that reloads eternally... but at least you can't just stand there behind coverage until your firecharge and chainsaw is refilled so you have to flee and try to fight back on low ammo which is fun but it's still not perfect to be honest.

 

They are onto something good but it does, in a way, remove the tactics of Doom to an extent. It's still very tactical but it's not quite the same as the pickup shortage requires smaller demons to keep coming at the player constantly in order to have a chance to survive and since there are always enough of them you don't really have to think about it THAT much. The chainsaw is an awesome idea but it would be even better if there aren't that many small demons, and if the chainsaw doesnt reload, and I also think the firecharge should have pickups lying around, and also the grenades should just be pickups lying around.

 

Now you could tell me to just play Doom 2016... but my issues with 2016 are coming froim somewhere else. That game is literally too god damn slow for me! It doesn't have the dash, you have quite a lof of ammo PLUS a chainsaw that can hold up to 7 slots that means 7 small demons can be killed by that but there are even more pickups everywhere than there are in Eternal so you already have a lot after upgrading all weapons plus that chainsaw... it's just... too much. ALso the pistol basically makes you be able to make an enemy fall asleep for a second and make a glory kill almost whenever you like and if you're low an ammo they sometimes drop EVEN MORE ammo for you to pick up. It's just... I don't want to sound mean, it's fun but also pretty mindless shooting without having to think much about your ammo. The start is fine but after getting all upgrades it becomes just ridicolous... and why are the upgrades sometimes secrets? The game would be fun if the ammo shortage would still be there, at least it would be BETTER, but that way it's just SSG spamming and Rocket launcher spamming in the later levels. Not much ractics required there.

 

I think the perfect Doom right now would be Doom 2016 using Eternal's fast-paced combat and difficulty, the enemy attacks and the movement with the differences being ammo is still short, there is no pistol with infinite ammo, the chainsaw does not have infinite fuel and there are a few smaller demons BUT they do not keep coming at you infinitely(or at least it feels like it, they are either infinite or they are just way too many). but it can keep those Jumping and climbing passages though, I really like them to be honest. But yeah, it would basically be a little like Brutal Doom with the difference being it has Doom Eternal's way faster pacing and the dash moves and that stuff, and also the weapons mods are really really great, they should stay as well. But that way it would just be my personal perfection and I'm sure many others of the community would really like something like that as well especially fans of Eternal and the new Doom games in general. That's how I see it honestly. (Oh... and about the Glory Kills... they can stay, but I just think they shouldn't give you that much health back... just a little is fine though if you're low, I think that'd be pretty much perfect since you'd have a reason to do a kill move)

Edited March 20, 2021 by 0o0[ULTIM4TE]L1FE[F0RM]0o0

[Frag Maniac]

Just wanted to apologize for the comment I made, and understand why it was removed. I often harken back to humor I've heard when reading posts, and don't realize something meant as humor is often taken as criticism. I meant no harm but fully accept and understand why it was seen as ridicule. The ironic thing is, I had intended the post to be helpful instead, following the jest with words of advice, and my DE Nightmare video guide, which is aimed at showing how the game can be beat on harder modes without elite skills. 

 

So, to try to make up for my offense, I will repost said advice and guide, in hopes that it helps. I know gameplay advice and a guide video won't make up for the comment, or a distaste for the lore, but maybe it will make the game more bearable.

 

Myself, and many others, have dealt with the struggle to reach the many keys required while playing on keyboard by binding the most useful weapons to keys closer to the navigation keys (typically called WASD keys), and two mouse thumb buttons. It is imperative to use devices like gaming mice with extra buttons to play such games. I only switch weapons at a moderate pace due to my age, but have found using the mouse scroll wheel to do the switching feels more intuitive. I also typically just switch back and forth between two powerful weapons (Ballista and Super Shotgun). Having a 3rd powerful weapon like the rocket launcher bound to a key near WASD helps finish heavies off quickly.

 

On basic strategy, I found what helped most is setting aside checkpoint saves at the start of hard battles and reloading them until you remember what enemies spawn where, what weapons to use against them, and where to relocate to after clearing a small area, typically an area where enemies haven't spawned in yet. In this way, you can strategize how to do the battle in chunks, and stay on the move. It also helps immensely to use portals, monkey bars, and jump pads when available to relocate, and take note where the portals spawn you. In many battles there are also various structures be it walls, pillars, etc, you can momentarily hide behind while switching/reloading weapons to prepare for enemies approaching. It makes particularly good sense to use this tactic when a tough heavy that demands full attention has just spawned in.

 

Lastly, here's that guide. Many whom were struggling with the game have said it helped them. It's the full playlist.

 

 

Here's the thread on the official forum I originally posted it in. It offers detailed descriptions of each mission, and answers questions others had. It may help fill in the blanks. https://bethesda.net/community/topic/410316/how-to-beat-doom-eternal-on-nightmare-without-really-trying?language[]=en

Edited March 20, 2021 by Frag Maniac

[Azuris]

1 hour ago, jazzmaster9 said:

The game portrayed Doom Slayer more of a Rouge Vigilante than a Jesus Analogue. He pretty much (mostly) did what he wanted with no regard for higher authority which is the opposite of how Christianity is where you serve a higher power and not yourself interest.

 

I personally cannot see the Christian Influences especially since the Main Criticism of Eternal is that Hell because an Alien planet than Satan's Domain.

 

Yep, i can not take such Critique serious, it is just so absurde.
 

1 hour ago, jazzmaster9 said:

I'm really liking this "Doom Eternal is a Christian game" Conspiracy Theory play out. Really good read so far could make a good youtube video with an appropriate clickbait thumbnail.

I am forward to see how this was all planed since Super 3D Noahs Ark and how they secretly overtook ID Games.

Btw. Super 3D Noahs Ark has a really good Release on Gog and Steam, it comes even with the original SNES Rom in Case you have an SD2SNES (or how its Named no FXPak something).

[jazzmaster9]

48 minutes ago, Azuris said:

I am forward to see how this was all planed since Super 3D Noahs Ark and how they secretly overtook ID Games.

Young Hugo convinced them to make Super 3d Noah's Ark to start the Christianization of Id, gotta add that to the video as well. Doom 3 showed how Greed can corrupt your soul and cost the lives of innocent men. OMG Hugo had his hands on everything. 

 

I really wanna how far the rabbit hole this can go and how many thing can be stretched to confirm the Conspiracy.

Edited March 20, 2021 by jazzmaster9

[D4NUK1]

In Doom 2016, we see the problems of praying and give you life to the lords of the demons, only because you work it's money and power for the more demonics forces. The only way to earn more and be more respected is instead realize sacrifices, and change your body for a more demonic ones. Olivia learned this well.

Hugo really went and just made The Slayer the destructors of this vile and not real religion, by the learnings of the real religion, he it's the fire that brigth more that the soul of the corrupts ones. So for he be they salvator.

And they named it...

[Not Jabba]

Seems like there are quite a few story/lore/quality-of-game debate threads going currently, so I'm closing a couple of them out.