Why did the people of Jekkad suffer from mortality? TAG1 vs. TAG2 lore (spoilers).

[igg]

Just finished TAG2 and I'm still confused by the "plot twist".

 

1) In TAG1 we learned it was the Fathers idea to create Jekkad and not to let them live forever:

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In the same moment he brought forth Jekkad, The Father forged Davoth to steward the realm. Davoth was a Primeval, one of The Father's first gods, and of such strength that each realm could contain only one. Alone, Jekkad's minds achieved great marvels as they sought to create a paradise. They grasped for unimagined powers to create a perfect society. Davoth felt pride as his people aspired to greatness but found their mortality to be a curse, an ending he would never be subjected to. Eventually their love of life and unbridled curiosity led them to seek immortality itself, as even Davoth feared his people's end while he alone remained. Davoth bent all Jekkad to seeking this ultimate knowledge at any cost.

 

In TAG2 we were told the opposite: All things are made by the dark lord, even the father. So it was Davoths own fault that his people die.

 

2) In TAG1 we also learned the father refused to kill the dark lord:

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The Father refused. The Dark Lord was his creation. It was better to leave Hell contained, with the Dark Lord reduced to whispers.

 

But TAG2 told es the opposite: The father is the creation of the dark lord. Why didn't the father kill the dark lord?

 

3) In TAG1 we were told the father decided to hide himself to protect the universe:

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The Father declared he would withdraw from the physical realm to prevent Jekkad's ever increasing power from someday shattering Urdak, and to stop Davoth from absorbing The Father's infinite powers that he so coveted.

 

But if the father is not the creator of all things, why was he concerned about the dark lord absorbing his powers? It should have been the other way around.

[Stoltzmann]

I am afraid that even writers don't know what the fuck is going on at this point.

[Man of Doom]

It’s worth noting that the only major change made in TAG2 was that Davoth was the creator of all things instead of the Father.

 

The most likely interpretation is that everything in the Book of the Seraphs remained true except for who was actually the creator of all things, and the big question was whether the Father simply took Davoth’s throne after his fall or whether he knowingly usurped him.

[Duke of Pathoris]

Simple: the Father lied a lot. No inconsistencies. 

[Martin-CAI]

We should unify in one thread the entire amount of lore inconsistencies and confusing things that that shift brought about. It was clearly not well thought. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Martin-CAI

[Gez]

Maybe it doesn't make sense. Or maybe it's Maybelline.

 

Perhaps it was Bethesda's influence; the Elder Scrolls setting is a glorious mess of contradicting lore because they always had for policy that lore dumps are only delivered "in character" (either NPCs or books with obvious biases) so it's up to the players to figure out what they think is true.

[Zemini]

I feel as though the backstory has been retcon -> retcon -> retcon.  But it guess it is also a "certain point of view" based on where you find the codex.  So UAC Codex is their point of view, and the TAG1 codex is from the Fathers.

 

It never really needed to be this complicated.  Hells origin should of always remain a mystery honestly.

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Zemini

[Job]

Because they touch themselves at night.

 

That's as plausible as anything, given the retcon soup we were served.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Job

[hfc2x]

Like Quasar mentioned in another thread, probably because the plot simply changes according to whatever movie Hugo Martin has watched most recently.

[TheRedTide]

Nanomachines, son. No.............. wait........... wrong franchise.

[mammajamma]

On 3/20/2021 at 2:49 PM, Man of Doom said:

It’s worth noting that the only major change made in TAG2 was that Davoth was the creator of all things instead of the Father.

 

The most likely interpretation is that everything in the Book of the Seraphs remained true except for who was actually the creator of all things, and the big question was whether the Father simply took Davoth’s throne after his fall or whether he knowingly usurped him.

Davoth is basically "not-Satan" and Satan is known traditionally as the "Prince of Lies". The fact that the Slayer killed Davoth yet didn't die proved that he was full of shit.

This shit is confusing because id had to contractually rush out a full season pass while the entire world was fucked by a pandemic at the same time. Honestly I'd rather let Microsoft have id take their time and release some later "Ancient Gods: Directors Cut" that touches up some of the art and expands on the story. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by mammajamma

[hfc2x]

21 minutes ago, mammajamma said:

Davoth is basically "not-Satan" and Satan is known traditionally as the "Prince of Lies".

I hate that this reminded me of something Quasar retweeted the other day lol:

 

 

 

[TheRedTide]

1 hour ago, mammajamma said:

Davoth is basically "not-Satan" and Satan is known traditionally as the "Prince of Lies". The fact that the Slayer killed Davoth yet didn't die proved that he was full of shit.

This shit is confusing because id had to contractually rush out a full season pass while the entire world was fucked by a pandemic at the same time. Honestly I'd rather let Microsoft have id take their time and release some later "Ancient Gods: Directors Cut" that touches up some of the art and expands on the story. 

 

The TAG expansions had their story finalized before the acquisition by Microsoft went ahead.

[thewormofautumn]

My bigger questions are (and I have lots of smaller ones)

 

- If Davoth is the uber creator, how does he get stuck in a realm? Like he's supposed to be lord of all, but gets locked inside one of his house whilst his kids run around outside ruling the world.

- if Davoth loved his creations so much, what's with demonology and torturing wanting to "bathe in blood" and generally trying to inflict pain on everyone, including those that didn't hurt him or know anything

- Why didn't Davoth recruit the Slayer... explain a few things, show him he's boss, then say let's take back Creation

- Why isn't all of Hell technologically advanced?

 

Good stories answer questions and also leave questions unanswered. That's fine.

But this story doesn't even bother answering any of the questions it asks. Everything is unanswered.

[slidjfaoin]

Davoth wanted his people to be like him. They can live longer yes but not the same as Davoth and he wanted to change that so he would never be alone.

 

On 3/23/2021 at 9:20 PM, thewormofautumn said:

My bigger questions are (and I have lots of smaller ones)

 

- If Davoth is the uber creator, how does he get stuck in a realm? Like he's supposed to be lord of all, but gets locked inside one of his house whilst his kids run around outside ruling the world.

- if Davoth loved his creations so much, what's with demonology and torturing wanting to "bathe in blood" and generally trying to inflict pain on everyone, including those that didn't hurt him or know anything

- Why didn't Davoth recruit the Slayer... explain a few things, show him he's boss, then say let's take back Creation

- Why isn't all of Hell technologically advanced?

 

Good stories answer questions and also leave questions unanswered. That's fine.

But this story doesn't even bother answering any of the questions it asks. Everything is unanswered.

 

The Maykr's stole his powers, and he can only do much with his portion and so many of his people dying in and out of his world and are now going onto extinction at a faste level that confirmed his fears, so in an attempt to save them all and a direct defiance to creation's he onced cherish, he finally snapped, he has to damn his original plan and everything he loved and created, sacrificed to save them all, even if it will change them into monsters, even the tech has been corrupted in this way as everything has been inverted as well, and you can just imagine it, so much knowledge lost in the process of the sealing of the Maykr's by him, stealing his powers and killing all of his people and forcing to become a monster, the Dark Lord and there is no going back from this, he know s this as well.

 

Also the slayer cannot be reasoned with, he hates demonkind they have been fighting for eons and beyond even Vega said this,

 

 A dedicated portion of VEGA's simulation matrix observes, records and analyzes these dimensional abnormablities as VEGA attempts to comprehend their meaning. Processing a veritable kaleidoscope of hyperfluxual phenomena, VEGA observes what may very well be the result of the multiverse imploding on itself, where countless battles are fought between the Doom Slayer and demonkind.

 

Davoth knew this but he did not cower, he accepted his death in ritual combat. He is a warrior to the end as said by Vega 

 

"He is the leader of hell's armies, not a king, but a warrior of the dark realm, the fiercest among them, as only the strongest could rule demons, he is you.... in there world", 

 

 

[oCrapaCreeper]

Much like us, fleshy beings he made can't live forever, they age and die. Davoth's creator made him immortal, but he can not do that with his creations. Fatal flaw with his power, even if he was an "almighty" god.  

 

That's why the Maykrs' were made, machines don't age and die old, different approach to a being. Davoth hoped they could find a way to let his people do it too. They did, before the entity he trusted (vega) promptly stole his power and then sealed him away while re writing history to hide that fact from the rest of existance from that point on. Poor guy.

Edited April 8, 2021 by oCrapaCreeper