Did the Slayer become Doomguy again? [Spoilers]

[Duke of Pathoris]

The Slayer fell weak because of the Dark Lord's death but he didn't die. Is this because his powers came from Davoth but not his life in general? Also note how when he talks his subtitle says "Doomguy" and furthermore, he talks! He is seen talking before being put in the divinity machine but not after. So is he just Doomguy again and not the Doom Slayer anymore?

[D4NUK1]

That's also a posibility. He killing The Dark Lord would me killing "the Divinity Machine"? 

But to counter-point that, he it's also put into his Tomb again, so he still powerful for being in use when, so he maybe not need powers of gods to kill the most powerful demons?

Let's speculate until new info comes.

[Martin-CAI]

25 minutes ago, Reelvonic said:

i like to view him finding daisy dead as the final point when he turns from "doomguy" to "doom slayer".

 

He became the slayer, a demi-god (a thing that I didn't like, I must say), because of the divinity machine. Before that, he was just an angry and skilled human.

 

But going back to the OP, I think it's implied so. But you know, maybe they make a DLC3 where they throw everything away and the real god is Daisy.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Martin-CAI

[Duke of Pathoris]

22 minutes ago, jamondemarnatural said:

That's also a posibility. He killing The Dark Lord would me killing "the Divinity Machine"? 

But to counter-point that, he it's also put into his Tomb again, so he still powerful for being in use when, so he maybe not need powers of gods to kill the most powerful demons?

Let's speculate until new info comes.

Well if we assume he was Doomguy all throughout Classic Doom, then evidently he doesn't need godlike powers.

[omx32x]

27 minutes ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

Well if we assume he was Doomguy all throughout Classic Doom, then evidently he doesn't need godlike powers.

and i dont think his god power are too usefull anyway other then his speed and resistence

he is still using guns and melee weapons to fight so i dont think it will make that much of a difference if in a possible sequel he doesnt have his god like powerfull only difference really is that he is weaker so he will have a harder time with glory kills and now he can die of old age

[Dweller Dark]

I think that he did become Doomguy again. They never actually explain why the Doomslayer/Doomguy's appearance changed, but it makes sense given the explanation of how the Divinity Machine gave Doomslayer his super powers and his connection with the Dark Lord. Through Doom, Doom 2, and Doom 64, we can reasonably assume that he had light brown hair and brown eyes, like the face on the HUD. When he's given his powers by the Divinity Machine (which is powered by a fragment of the Dark Lord's being), he adopts the Dark Lord's appearance because of the Machine's connection to the Dark Lord. When the Dark Lord dies, this connection is broken and Doomslayer collapses as it theoretically reverts him back to his original self. We're then shown (from a first-person perspective, which was probably intentional) that he's being sealed into a similar sarcophagus to the one from Doom 2016.

 

He definitely didn't seem to die as he was conscious when they put him in the sarcophagus, nor does anyone explicitly say he's dead within the story itself. So I think that, with the death of the Dark Lord, his enhancements and connection to him are removed, and between his collapse and entombing, he's reverted to being Doomguy with his classic appearance. I also imagine that he's completely human again and ages, therefore the coffin must be engraved with life-extending runes to keep him alive until he's needed. 

 

Though, if that IS what was intended to happen, I wish they tied up the loose ends better. They didn't explain what will happen to VEGA/Father, Intern, or the Sentinels who held off the Dark Lord's army.

[OniriA]

3 hours ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

the Dark Lord's

 

2 hours ago, jamondemarnatural said:

The Dark Lord 

 

1 hour ago, DavetheDoomguy said:

Dark Lord.

 

Doomguy is zeh dark lord and vice versa.

 

/topic

[Duke of Pathoris]

1 hour ago, DavetheDoomguy said:

They never actually explain why the Doomslayer/Doomguy's appearance changed, but it makes sense given the explanation of how the Divinity Machine gave Doomslayer his super powers and his connection with the Dark Lord. Through Doom, Doom 2, and Doom 64, we can reasonably assume that he had light brown hair and brown eyes, like the face on the HUD. When he's given his powers by the Divinity Machine (which is powered by a fragment of the Dark Lord's being), he adopts the Dark Lord's appearance because of the Machine's connection to the Dark Lord.

I think more or less what you're saying holds water but really, Slayer's face looks just like Guy's face from the originals if you were to do a HD version. From what I understand, Dark Lord looks like the Slayer, not the other way around. I always understood it as he took the Slayer's form because the Slayer is the fiercest warrior Hell can imagine.

[Rudolph]

11 minutes ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

I think more or less what you're saying holds water but really, Slayer's face looks just like Guy's face from the originals if you were to do a HD version. From what I understand, Dark Lord looks like the Slayer, not the other way around. I always understood it as he took the Slayer's form because the Slayer is the fiercest warrior Hell can imagine.

I say he looks more like Michael Shannon had a baby with Marcus Fenix.

[whatup876]

Doomguy's hair wasn't really black and his eyes seem smaller.

There's also the aspect ratio debate and the "flat top" from how Adrian Carmack drew some character heads.

 

[Yurax]

I think, that in codexes was stated, that Divinity Engine has only fragment of Davoth (and drives tortured Sentinels mad), while Slayer becomes Slayer because Samur runs DE reverted on him. Not that this fragment is implemented into one particular person (who, instead of going destroy Urdak immediately, gots trapped in collapsed temple, only to get rescued by Samur again)

Anyways this makes sense, but if it is true then:

-eternal gameplay is over, no real men can heal by glorykills, handle praetor suit and didnt vomit on first dash.

-he will rot in sarcophagus, unless it is some cryo or statis freezer. Or driven mad, if human soul is consious in unresponsible divine body.

-why would Makers put him in statis, if he would be just incousious human. In that case they would bring him to Earth perhaps.

 

Makes more sense that Davoth takes look of Slayer as honor, than makes him his image. This will explain also fact, that he never leaves his mech. Full body Luminarium it might be just illusion.

Or Maykrs are just some quantum "Luttece" siblings from all dimensions, that got rid of Davoth by bringing his good self from other reality.

[Scrabbs]

19 hours ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

Well if we assume he was Doomguy all throughout Classic Doom, then evidently he doesn't need godlike powers. 

My head canon is that the divinity machine actually depowered doomguy since in 2016 or eternal he couldn't outrun rockets.

[Duke of Pathoris]

4 hours ago, whatup876 said:

Doomguy's hair wasn't really black and his eyes seem smaller.

There's also the aspect ratio debate and the "flat top" from how Adrian Carmack drew some character heads.

 

I think we can all agree it is a close enough reconstruction of his pixelated precursor. 

 

2 hours ago, Yurax said:

I think, that in codexes was stated, that Divinity Engine has only fragment of Davoth (and drives tortured Sentinels mad), while Slayer becomes Slayer because Samur runs DE reverted on him. Not that this fragment is implemented into one particular person (who, instead of going destroy Urdak immediately, gots trapped in collapsed temple, only to get rescued by Samur again)

Anyways this makes sense, but if it is true then:

-eternal gameplay is over, no real men can heal by glorykills, handle praetor suit and didnt vomit on first dash.

-he will rot in sarcophagus, unless it is some cryo or statis freezer. Or driven mad, if human soul is consious in unresponsible divine body.

-why would Makers put him in statis, if he would be just incousious human. In that case they would bring him to Earth perhaps.

 

Makes more sense that Davoth takes look of Slayer as honor, than makes him his image. This will explain also fact, that he never leaves his mech. Full body Luminarium it might be just illusion.

Or Maykrs are just some quantum "Luttece" siblings from all dimensions, that got rid of Davoth by bringing his good self from other reality.

I like the idea that Davoth's body is an illusion but I'm not sure that explains how he got killed. My first thought when I saw the Slayer placed in the sarcophagus was actually that he died and he was given a burial of honour.

 

1 hour ago, Scrabbs said:

My head canon is that the divinity machine actually depowered doomguy since in 2016 or eternal he couldn't outrun rockets.

He doesn't need to run anymore. Demons run from him now.

[Scrabbs]

42 minutes ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

He doesn't need to run anymore. Demons run from him now.

They were running from him by the time 64 began

[Mraka]

If Davoth's death is the reason behind The Slayer collapsing, why didn't everything else do the same? The realms, the Maykr's, Sentinels etc.

[Duke of Pathoris]

24 minutes ago, Mraka said:

If Davoth's death is the reason behind The Slayer collapsing, why didn't everything else do the same? The realms, the Maykr's, Sentinels etc.

I think it's because Slayer was powered directly by Davoth's power via the Divinity machine.

[Gez]

Every installment of the Doom Slayer Slayga just makes things more needlessly convoluted.

[Rudolph]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

Every installment of the Doom Slayer Slayga just makes things more needlessly convoluted.

It makes me appreciate Doom 3 more in that regard.

[mammajamma]

On 3/20/2021 at 7:38 PM, Duke of Pathoris said:

The Slayer fell weak because of the Dark Lord's death but he didn't die. Is this because his powers came from Davoth but not his life in general? Also note how when he talks his subtitle says "Doomguy" and furthermore, he talks! He is seen talking before being put in the divinity machine but not after. So is he just Doomguy again and not the Doom Slayer anymore?

Samur was the "Wretch" Seraphim mentioned in Doom 4's codex that gave Doomguy his Slayer powers through a chunk of Davoth's soul. Samur later manifested himself in 2016's universe by possessing Samuel Hayden's body through rapid terminal malignant cancer. That's also how Hayden was able to recover Doomguy from that deep tomb at the beginning of 4. It would explain the time skip/plothole between Doom 4's ending and Eternal's opening as well. Hayden was never going to kill him or fuck him over when he was the one who gave Doomguy his buff in the first place; he already knows he's fucked so everything he does is to ensure that Doomguy kills him last. The Divinity Machine is supposed to be a callback to Doom 4's beginning where he wakes up in the sarcophagus.

 

At any point Doomguy was extremely fucking strong in the first place before Doom 4. Someone who dies then fights his way out of hell, fights his way once more into hell while saving the earth, and then decides to stay there after doing it again, is going to be overpowered by any measure, especially when the game's enemy roster by its very nature and backstory can overwhelm humanity through a mix of viciousness and sheer numbers.

Davoth taking the form of Doomguy is, I assume, a metaphor on the idea of Doomguy being a stand-in/blank slate for the player as well as on how many Doom players have tried their hand at making a map over the past 25 years, mixed in with the old trope of selling your soul to the devil for power. The Makyr themselves are more like Ancient Aliens that happen to look like deities. (That skin pack that's a total reference to the WAD isn't a coincidence.) Davoth is one of the Ancient Gods.
 

Any future Doom game, WAD, mod, or guest appearance can be rationalized as random shit Doomguy got up to sometime in-between Doom 64 and Eternal, or him waking up from the Divinity Machine presumably after id's next game or two, aka nuQuake.

Edited March 22, 2021 by mammajamma

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, mammajamma said:

Samur was the "Wretch" Seraphim mentioned in Doom 4's codex that gave Doomguy his Slayer powers through a chunk of Davoth's soul. Samur later manifested himself in 2016's universe by possessing Samuel Hayden's body through rapid terminal malignant cancer. That's also how Hayden was able to recover Doomguy from that deep tomb at the beginning of 4. It would explain the time skip/plothole between Doom 4's ending and Eternal's opening as well. Hayden was never going to kill him or fuck him over when he was the one who gave Doomguy his buff in the first place; he already knows he's fucked so everything he does is to ensure that Doomguy kills him last. The Divinity Machine is supposed to be a callback to Doom 4's beginning where he wakes up in the sarcophagus.

So it has been confirmed that the voice at the beginning of Doom 2016 is Samuel Hayden/the Seraphim?

 

Also, I never got the impression that Doomguy actually died at the end of Knee Deep In The Dead. I think the whole demonic ambush was just meant to serve as some sort of cliffhanger for The Shores of Hell. The way the epilogue is worded, it sounds more like Doomguy was expecting the portal to take him back home, but instead he found himself teleported to Deimos where the only way out seems to be through Hell itself.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Rudolph

[Linguica]

If all WADs are canon (according to the popular fan theory), then if someone makes a WAD of the once again mortal Doomslayer turned Doomguy, explicitly set post TAG2 coming out of the sarcophagus, then by definition it immediately becomes canon?

[TheRedTide]

I don't think the Doomguy lost his powers. Somehow I just don't feel it.

[mammajamma]

1 hour ago, Linguica said:

If all WADs are canon (according to the popular fan theory), then if someone makes a WAD of the once again mortal Doomslayer turned Doomguy, explicitly set post TAG2 coming out of the sarcophagus, then by definition it immediately becomes canon?

It's probably whatever the fuck Doomguy's probably dreaming up while in stasis in the Divinity Machine until he gets out the next Doom game (or guest appearance, a "Hey, I feel like competing in a Tekashi's Challenge show with a bunch of blobs, probably go beat the shit out of Sephiroth too but I'm not sure yet" kind of thing) You don't kill thousands of monsters without it burning into your psyche in some fashion.

[Duke of Pathoris]

3 hours ago, Linguica said:

If all WADs are canon (according to the popular fan theory), then if someone makes a WAD of the once again mortal Doomslayer turned Doomguy, explicitly set post TAG2 coming out of the sarcophagus, then by definition it immediately becomes canon?

"If"

 

To be less laconic, I do not buy this fan theory.

[Mraka]

On 3/22/2021 at 12:14 AM, Duke of Pathoris said:

I think it's because Slayer was powered directly by Davoth's power via the Divinity machine.

That makes sense. I feel like we should still put respect on Doomguy's name. Pretty sure he was too angry to die even before becoming The Slayer. But that's just my own opinion.

And as OP said, the subtitle did say "Doomguy" instead of something like "Doomslayer", "Slayer" or something like that.

[Job]

Do Slayers Dream of Electric Demons?

[Duke of Pathoris]

6 hours ago, Mraka said:

That makes sense. I feel like we should still put respect on Doomguy's name. Pretty sure he was too angry to die even before becoming The Slayer. But that's just my own opinion.

And as OP said, the subtitle did say "Doomguy" instead of something like "Doomslayer", "Slayer" or something like that.

Doomguy deserves a lot of respect. They wouldn't turn just anyone into a god. I think they tried sentinels before and it ruined them. Only doomguy was badass enough for it to work on him.

[Gez]

On mardi 23 mars 2021 at 3:41 AM, Duke of Pathoris said:

To be less laconic, I do not buy this fan theory.

If all wads are canon, then at some point Doomguy fought giant floating Bill Clinton heads, and also Barneys.

[Vic Vos]

Grezzo Due is my headcanon

[RougeSlayer96]

HOT TAKE: I hope they don't end up turning him back into Doomguy honestly. I like the concept of the DoomSlayer and feel like having him revert back would be major character regression.