Let's talk about mbf+ / a new complevel

[Swalzi]

I quickly went through the MBF21 status doc and couldn't find what I was looking for. Would it be possible to simulate the aggressive behavior of the Lost Soul from Doom 64 in skill 4 and below? Where the lost soul is constantly charging at targets like Nightmare difficulty Lost Souls in Doom.

I remember playing around with dehacked a year ago for vanilla-format. Reducing the Lost Soul's reaction time to 0, but that didn't do anything.

[ViolentBeetle]

2 suggestions:
Support for complevel 2 but with sky transfer. I think Crispy Doom does it.
Linedef actions to change linedefs with the same tag to impassable and back (Monster only variants included) so we could finally have proper openable grates.

(I checked the list, didn't find any reference to this two)

Edited May 10, 2021 by ViolentBeetle

[maxmanium]

3 minutes ago, ViolentBeetle said:

Support for complevel 2 but with sky transfer. I think Crispy Doom does it.

 

This has already been implemented in the PRBoom+ UMAPINFO fork. Complevels 2, 3, and 4 now additionally support sky transfers straight up.

[ChopBlock223]

Being able to use a linedef action to change the properties of another linedef on the fly is an incredible idea. Passable and impassable and all that is one thing, but imagine also toggling texture pegging, show on automap, sound blocking, etc.

 

Could things like these be done without causing lots of problems?

[GoneAway]

On 5/15/2021 at 6:59 PM, ChopBlock223 said:

Being able to use a linedef action to change the properties of another linedef on the fly is an incredible idea. Passable and impassable and all that is one thing, but imagine also toggling texture pegging, show on automap, sound blocking, etc.

 

Could things like these be done without causing lots of problems?

I think this is something that could be worked out for the next round. Guessing you would do something like having 3 linedefs sharing a tag. One has the action, another stores the properties to copy, and the final linedef is copied onto. There's a lot of considerations to go through, but we'll definitely keep this in mind.

[ViolentBeetle]

2 more ideas:

- Disable/Enable teleport in tagged sector (If activated teleport lines with this tag would not work/start working again)

- Apply colormap to sector without bringing in fake floor/ceiling (Right now blanket-applying colormaps to sectors seems impossible, crushing my dreams of noir-themed level)

[ChopBlock223]

Oh, another one; super crushers, where no matter which speed they're set to, they call damage 10 times per 'hit' and don't slow down while crushing something.

Would be cool if it could also be applied to lowering ceiling actions, so you could have a trap where a ceiling part comes slamming down at high speed, guaranteed to kill or seriously hurt any player or monster caught under it (and then the VooDoo action which operates the trap raises the ceiling back into its 'ready' position with just a slowly raising ceiling action.

Equivalent for crushing floors would also be cool.

 

I know you can already make crushers hurt more by using self-referencing sectors, but GzDoom "fixes" this, and they still will slow down as they put the crunch on something.

[Gez]

Just a quick little PSA: some old maps (Heroes' Tale MAP31, Remain 3 MAP11) have been found that are broken when MBF21 features are enabled due to spuriously setting the "block players" flag on lines that aren't meant to block players.

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=73728

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=74860

 

That shouldn't be a problem for DSDA and similar since MBF21 flags should be disabled when not in MBF21 complevel, but for other ports it can be something to watch out for.

[Nefelibeta]

Just a suggestion: special line action that would make Sky flat effect also applies to lower part of the sector. It would be really helpful to make some void maps.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Nefelibeta

[ReaperAA]

1 hour ago, Gez said:

That shouldn't be a problem for DSDA and similar since MBF21 flags should be disabled when not in MBF21 complevel, but for other ports it can be something to watch out for.

 

What a coincidence that you posted this since I was just playing TNT: Revilution's Map30 and I accidentally set the complevel to MBF21. What happened was that the map's spawn cubes didn't turn into monsters and just remained there like decorations and thus breaking the map. So, no even DSDA has this issue.

Edited April 16, 2022 by ReaperAA

[Gez]

15 minutes ago, Nefelibeta said:

linseed

That's autocorrectese for "linedef", I suppose.

 

You can avoid the issue by just using "line". "Linedef" is short for "line definition" anyway...

 

15 minutes ago, Nefelibeta said:

that would make Sky flat effect also applies to lower part of the sector

You mean the sky hack? We could also imagine the reverse, something to disable it on the upper wall.

 

5 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

So, no even DSDA has this issue.

Yeah but you said you were on the wrong complevel, so that should be expected. It's only if the map is also broken on lower complevels that it's an issue.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Gez

[Nefelibeta]

11 minutes ago, Gez said:

That's autocorrectese for "linedef", I suppose.

Oops

 

Yeah, being able to disable it would also be very cool to utilize.