I've been asking this Commander Keen thing but I can't figure it out ;-;

[forgettable pyromaniac]

sorry if this is getting annoying, but I still can't figure out how to kill an icon after killing all the Commander Keens.

I've been trying multiple things, and the only thing I got to kinda work was a monster spawner telefragging an icon of sin, but that requires waking it up, which just feels odd.

[Ofisil]

Sector 666 just acts as a door in vanilla Doom, so I don't know how something like that can be done.

 

The only idea I can think of is that, upon entering the area that the door was blocking, a crusher activates in the vicinity of the Icon, destroys a bunch of barrels, which in turn kill the IoS.

[forgettable pyromaniac]

16 minutes ago, Ofisil said:

Sector 666 just acts as a door in vanilla Doom, so I don't know how something like that can be done.

 

The only idea I can think of is that, upon entering the area that the door was blocking, a crusher activates in the vicinity of the Icon, destroys a bunch of barrels, which in turn kill the IoS.

I've been considering just doing that, to be honest.

[Gez]

REKKR features some dehacked trickery that involves actors that just shoot projectiles continuously in front of them. The shoot commands are in their spawn sequence, so they don't need to be woken up or to acquire a target (and in fact, the setup would be broken if they acquired a target because then they would no longer shoot just in front of them, but rotate). Opening doors allow these projectiles to go further and cross some lines that can have further effects -- there's a few projectile types that can actually trigger walkover lines, because the id devs forgot to add them to the exclusion list when they developed Doom II.

 

But anyway, you could have some contraption where a similar dehacked actor just shoots continuously towards a Romero head, but there's a door in between that only opens when the Keens are killed. It should do what you want, no?

Edited March 22, 2021 by Gez

[forgettable pyromaniac]

Just now, Gez said:

REKKR features some dehacked trickery that involves actors that just shoot projectiles continuously in front of them. Opening doors allow these projectiles to go further and cross some lines that can have further effects -- there's a few projectile types that can actually trigger walkover lines, because the id devs forgot to add them to the exclusion list when they developed Doom II.

 

But anyway, you could have some contraption where a similar dehacked actor just shoots continuously towards a Romero head, but there's a door in between that only opens when the Keens are killed. It should do what you want, no?

Yea, that could work. I'll keep that in mind :)

[Stabbey]

I'm assuming you can kill the Keens in any order, so this idea won't work, but if I was doing this from scratch, I'd consider trying to put the keens on the outside edges of the map and behind them an invisible wall/corridor which leads to a tag 666 door with an chaingunner, so that when all keens are dead, the door opens up and the chaingunner shoots at the player, hitting explosive barrels that kill it and the romero head. The corridor would be long enough so that you couldn't hear the chaingunner shooting.

 

This probably won't work for what you're doing, though.

[forgettable pyromaniac]

27 minutes ago, Stabbey said:

I'm assuming you can kill the Keens in any order, so this idea won't work, but if I was doing this from scratch, I'd consider trying to put the keens on the outside edges of the map and behind them an invisible wall/corridor which leads to a tag 666 door with an chaingunner, so that when all keens are dead, the door opens up and the chaingunner shoots at the player, hitting explosive barrels that kill it and the romero head. The corridor would be long enough so that you couldn't hear the chaingunner shooting.

 

This probably won't work for what you're doing, though.

Neat idea!
But yeah, you can kill the keens in any order you wish.

[Stabbey]

Well, technically it could work with a monster closet at each keen location, but I suspect that you've placed at least some of the keens in places where you don't have the space to do that.

[Z0k]

i think GEZ idea its the only way to achieve you want, i tried:

 

-a monster in a closet away from the playfield but it sector joined to one of the keen rooms so as soon player start shooting to the keen it will alert the monster, and as soon the last keen its dead the closet of the monster will open revealing a teleport line which will frag the icon of sin: didnt work because monsters cant telefrag each other (forgot that)

 

-then i tried the monster spawner telefragging the icon of sin as those can telefrag each other. so i just put the spawner aiming to the icon of sin by placing a monster target inside icon of sin, the icon of sin will be inside a closet but also it will have a small little sector joined to the playfield behind the closet so when open once the last keen its dead you only will need a reason to shoot again to alert the icon of sin, this mean the icon of sin would get awaken (and use) it alert sound but hey it will shoot itself a cube spawner and kill itself, didnt work because the icon of sin never got alerted despite the shooting sounds.

 

-the last thing i was about to try its with monster teleport into a barell, basically going back to monster outside playfield but it sector joined to the playfield so when as soon hear a player firing around it will awaken, will be inside a closet so once it open the last ken its dead will reveal the path for the monster to get teleport into the barrel and telefrag the barrel, and why a barrel? so i can put a voodoo doll a bit near of the barrel so get pushed by barrel explosion and trigger a activation line of crusher who will crush the icon of sin... didnt worked as monsters cant telefrag anything (unless map30).

 

so i guess it cant be achieved in doom2 vanilla only without DEH, and i guess you aim doom2 for compatibility so engines are out of the list.

 

however if you use boom (which i guess most used so it can also be compatible with anything (except vanilla itself?? idk) the thing i could try would be:

-placing a voodoo doll in a sector with scrolling floor, scrolling towards the closed door that will open once every keen its dead, the lines of those doors will contain teleport action so the doll can telefrag the icon of sin, if you want some delay you can place a line that trigger a crusher instead the teleport. i dont use a lot boom but i assume should work as seen with some voodoo dolls tricks

 

otherwise GEZ idea its still the way to achieve what you want

Edited March 22, 2021 by Z0k

[Stabbey]

40 minutes ago, Z0k said:

i think GEZ idea its the only way to achieve you want, i tried:

 

-then i tried the monster spawner telefragging the icon of sin as those can telefrag each other. so i just put the spawner aiming to the icon of sin by placing a monster target inside icon of sin, the icon of sin will be inside a closet but also it will have a small little sector joined to the playfield behind the closet so when open once the last keen its dead you only will need a reason to shoot again to alert the icon of sin, this mean the icon of sin would get awaken (and use) it alert sound but hey it will shoot itself a cube spawner and kill itself, didnt work because the icon of sin never got alerted despite the shooting sounds.

 

That's odd? This actually should work. I just threw together a quick test with two spawn spots that each have a Romero head on it, with the spawner behind a tag 666 door, and once the door opened, shooting did alert the spawner, and it sent the cube out and it killed the icon, ending the level. However, I think what is needed here is a visual alert on the spawner, because there's no guarantee that the player will shoot again after all the Keens are dead.

[Z0k]

Just now, Stabbey said:

 

That's odd? This actually should work. I just threw together a quick test with two spawn spots that each have a Romero head on it, with the spawner behind a tag 666 door, and once the door opened, shooting did alert the spawner, and it sent the cube out and it killed the icon, ending the level. However, I think what is needed here is a visual alert on the spawner, because there's no guarantee that the player will shoot again after all the Keens are dead.

 

exactly, thats why i said he would need a reason to make the player shoot again once the last ken its dead, about why the IOS didnt got awaken after i keep firing idk what happened.

[Stabbey]

One other way to get the player to shoot again would be to have a 666-tagged hatch with a shootable switch at the far end, clearly unreachable by anything except shooting. Maybe even put in an "Exit" sign above the switch. That shouldn't require a lot of space, and it could be joined with the spawner sector.

 

As a WAD author, I enjoy puzzling through this kind of problem. I've also figured out how to have a switch triggering a raising elevator end a level automatically, by having the floor be a crushing floor, and an icon of sin is crushed before the player is.

[Revae]

You could make the monster spawner see you, so you don't need to fire to wake it. Hide it behind a false impassible wall, but too high for the player to fire into.