Haunting Outbreak 2 [Beta Release, Playtesters needed]

[Rudolph]

Out of curiosity, once you are done with this, will you be reworking Haunting Outbreak 1 next?

[Blip]

I have played until map 05, until that point it was pretty good, but stopped because the lack of ammo and health on that map on a pistol start is insane. Maybe put a shell and two ammo boxes in that fountain at the beginning that is on the side with the clips and shells. The secret definitely needs something more, because the ammo it gives is instantly used in the next room (maybe even another secret with more ammo somewhere). It is a shame really because map05 was the prettiest so far. 

 

Map02 seemed to be pretty tricky but you can just cheese them by forcing infights by spamming the use key on doors, so it ended up being kind of easy. You might want to lock the player in some of those arenas and give in exchange more ammo and health.

 

As other have said, it is very easy to get softlocked in some parts. For example, in map04 where you stand on that blue switch, I somehow managed to go past the stone fences, maybe you should raise them a little bit. And then in map 05 but people have already told you about that one.

 

My favorite was map04 so far. The ending fight is pretty cool though I feel like the enemies in that fight should spawn after pressing a switch or something because you can't grab the rockets on the sides until you killed almost all enemies.

 

I'll keep playing the other maps when I can, but overall it's pretty nice. The only nitpick I have is that there's a lack of traps/tricky situations in these maps. Some rooms (mostly hallways) feel kind of empty and I would always be expecting something locking up behind me or an archvile or something teleporting, but would never happen

[Silhouette 03]

Map05

-Serious ammo and health shortages for the majority of the map ( sorry that I'm repeating myself, but it's better you know this way).

- The chain-gunners in the courtyard cannot seem to attack me, and vice versa.

 

Map06

-The detailing and visuals in this map are exquisite. I can't praise your detailing abilities enough.

- More ammo and health ammo shortages.

 

Map07

- Resource shortages

- I had to use IDKFA to kill the cyber-demon, since I had to eliminate him to succeed.

- The cyber-demon encounter is a bit clunky, since he can't get through the doorway, and occasionally when I open the door he insta-kills me due to being stuck in that room.

 

Map08

- The SSG only being in the secret is a bad idea, since taking out hell knights with only the shotgun takes forever and chews through your ammo reserves.

- Resource shortages.

-Giving the player a rocket launcher might be a good idea, to cull the repetitive nature of the later fights.

- The final fight is a bit of a mess without weapons like the plasma rifle or the rocket launcher.

 

Map09

-Resource balancing is a bit better, though still a bit scarce. The combat in the later parts of the map don't have enough ammo in them.

- Progression is a bit obtuse. The room with the three switches is a good example.

- You can only go through the teleporter from one specific angle

 

Map10

-Very nice layout and detailing

- I'd think it be best if you maybe add a rocket launcher before you get access to the yellow skull key.

-You might want to consider making the yellow keycard more visible, so that the player does not get lost.

- The switch that lowers the switch that opens up the yellow keycard has no switch texture.

- There are way too many barons to deal with, considering the player has no rocket launcher.

- Resources are also a problem, especially in the later areas with the more slaughtery fights.

- The map feels like it drags on a bit too long, and certain areas feel pointlessly empty or large.

- The SSG only appears in a secret

 

Map11

- Having to use the one console to progress is a little bit obtuse

- The combat is a bit repetitive

- Using a rocket launcher against a spider-demon isn't practical, you'd be better off using the SSG 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Silhou3tte

[Omniplex]

@Rudolph Thanks for asking about the original Hunting Outbreak. I do not know if I should rework on that one.

 

@BlipBlerp, The stone fences you were talking about were risen a bit, and I have able to add more ammunitions to the point where I was able to complete the levels in UV with all kills and secrets. More ammo and health added to MAP05 :)

 

@Silhou3tte, I have made fixes regarding ammo shortage on the maps you have mentioned. I was able to complete them on UV with maximum kills and secrets even with a few ammo left. MAP06 will have more ammo in the next version of this WAD, MAP07 has more ammo and also BFG9000, the SSG in MAP08 is moved to a normal area with an added rocket launcher and also a chainsaw in case you are low on ammo and to conserve for the later fights (next version). You must be talking about the STARGREY area with the two pressure plates, one switch lowers a silver wall blocking first brown button, pressing the "revealed button" to lower the silver wall blocking the next switch. While the next switch lowers the silver wall blocking the other button, pressing the second button will lower the bigger wall with some "comp blue" texturing. Pressing the third switch will open the way to the "Choir room". The other switch where you can press multiple times is now fixed, pressing it once just like the other one.

 

I am currently working on MAP09 to add more ammo, anyways I will be working on the rest of the levels like adding more ammunitions and other things like including more secrets. Thanks for pointing more errors. Phew, looks like we are making progress :).

[Silhouette 03]

Map 12

- Resource shortages.

-  A lot of areas are unnecessarily big, and lack detail.

- You need to give the player heavier weaponry, like the plasma rifle and rocket launcher. Taking on high tier enemies demands that the player have powerful weaponry.

- The revs in the moat area is a clunky encounter, since there isn't any cover from the projectiles.

- Why is there one random invisible caco? I don't understand its inclusion.

 

Map 13

-Ammo shortages, especially rockets and cells.

- You might want to consider giving the rocket launcher or plasma rifle to the player earlier, as some of the encounters are best suited to those weapons

- The cybie fight is awkward, as there isn't much space to strafe

-Some of the monsters in the traps where the floor raises and they appear, are alerted to the sound of gunfire.

- The pain sectors make strafing difficult 

 

Map 14

- The chain-gunner in the room with the red pipes doesn't rise up in time. I nearly fell into the floor, and was than raised up.

 

I'm a bit stuck. I'm in the room with the switch that raises the platform. I've raised the platform and I've pressed the button on that ledge. What do I do now?

https://imgur.com/a/rS7ZsAT 

[Omniplex]

Sorry for the late reply, you were probably like "Respond already!" I was busy fixing MAP09, MAP10, MAP11, MAP12 and MAP13. Basically what that green switch did was lowering the silver gates blocking the smaller door. Once you done that, you get to that door using the platform that was raised and open the striped door to get the yellow key card.

 

By the way, there are a lot of high damaging floors in the area you are about to go to next. In the upcoming update, the nukage sectors are much less damaging.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Omniplex

[Silhouette 03]

16 hours ago, Omniplex said:

you get to that door using the platform that was raised and open the striped door to get the yellow key card.

 

I tried using the striped door, and it doesn't appear to be opening. I think this might be a bug.

[Omniplex]

Alright, I have just made a quick test (with no monsters) on MAP14 and it works entirely. Since you still have the previous version of this WAD, does the striped door have "Repeatable action" not applied? It supposed to be a normal door.

 

To those who are still waiting for the next version, it is almost finished as I have made it to MAP19. I made sure there is just enough ammo and health to complete the levels with 100% kills and 100% secrets on Ultra-Violence. Some levels are difficult to complete without saves on the said difficulty. There are certain areas where you may almost run out of ammo with crowds of monsters chasing you, but just behind that crowd; there is a big stash of ammo and health waiting for you and make a run for.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Omniplex

[Silhouette 03]

21 minutes ago, Omniplex said:

does the striped door have "Repeatable action" not applied?

The thing is, I haven't opened it once. It simply won't open at all.

 

Edit: I can't look at in an editor, as I don't have the resource wad.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Silhou3tte

[Omniplex]

Well, this is strange because it worked for me. Curious, what source port are you using to play this WAD?

 

This WAD is in "ZDoom (Doom 2 in Hexen format)", and it uses Doom 2 as a resource IWAD.

[Silhouette 03]

GZDoom 4.5.0,  plutonia IWAD, though that shouldn’t affect the door.

[omx32x]

22 minutes ago, Silhou3tte said:

GZDoom 4.5.0,  plutonia IWAD, though that shouldn’t affect the door.

unrelated but you play pwads using plutonia? i heard thatplutonia has some textures that doom 2 lacks (and vice versa) so do you see any texture problems when using it?

[Silhouette 03]

59 minutes ago, omalefico32x said:

unrelated but you play pwads using plutonia? i heard thatplutonia has some textures that doom 2 lacks (and vice versa) so do you see any texture problems when using it?

Yes, I occasionally test maps in plutonia. I have no texture problems when using it, since Plutonia uses Doom 2 textures,

[Omniplex]

I have tested all 21 maps, and can now be completed in Ultra-Violence with 100% kills and 100% secrets. I have updated the link to the WAD itself, the new version is out now! :)

[Silhouette 03]

I'm using the updated version of the wad.

 

Map 14

- Resource balancing is much better on HMP. I'll test the next map on UV to check resource balancing on that skill level.

- I noclipped through the striped door, and it appears I can open it from the other side. I've no clue why.

- I'd advise putting a rad suit in the room with the mancubi and the rocket launcher.

 

Map 15 ( I've switched to UV)

-Combat is a bit repetitive and relies too heavily on hordes of hit-scanners or high tier enemies.

-  I managed to trigger the barons and hell knights in the floor's awakening before I got the key.

- Ammo is still a bit scarce in some areas. Putting ammo in some areas where there are hordes would be a good idea.

- The area with the rocket launcher needs more rockets. There aren't enough to take on the rev horde.

-  The barons and revs on the floor can be triggered by firing a weapon

- The areas in which slaughter takes place aren't suited to that kind of combat.

 

More to follow. 

[Stabbey]

I decided to give this a shot. I strongly suspect that your process is that you first build the entire level and only after that is complete, you add in items and monsters. I can tell this because the encounter balance feels "off" in many places. Weapons, ammo, health, amount of enemies... none of that feels like it went through a lot of iteration and self-playtesting to tune the maps.

 

Too much space combined with tight ammo supplies incentivizes the player to run around enemies instead of fighting them. There are many cases of swarms of weak enemies, but not much heavy weaponry is provided to clear the swarms out. For instance in Map 03 where you face two Barons before getting the RL, and when you do get the RL, you'll only have about 20 rockets to deal with a big fight. Too much open areas with few enemies who make use of it in a way which threatens the player. Not a lot of traps, and most of the ones which are there have their triggers in the wrong place to make them easy to avoid. Maps 4 and 5 start throwing swarms of Hell Knights/Barons at you, but there's little rocket ammo. You never lock players in to deal with the monsters, and the monsters can't even open the doors to follow you.

 

 

Map01
- Only 1 secret? No items? Secrets are fun. You could easily toss in a secret from using the computer in the starting room, and adding health/armor bonuses around helps a level feel more complete.
- Monsters can't seem to open the doors, I guess because the map is using advanced specials. This is an issue because after clearing the starting hallway, I opened the door to a room full of monsters. I'm not going into a packed room full of hitscanners including multiple chaingunners with only a single-barrelled shotgun and no armor. So I cheesed it by opening and closing the door to get monsters to infight without taking damage myself. Safe, but boring. I got 11 monsters to wipe themselves out that way before it seemed quiet enough.
- Something about that grey floor in the living room just looks too bland for my tastes.
- That secret feels like the button should open a door in the same room, not the next room over.
- The level had a lot of open space, enough that I didn't feel like fighting the enemies in the last area, and I had the space to avoid them.
- There was very little health provided - three stimpaks, all in the first two rooms?
- I like going back to look for secrets, and the surprise teleport prevents that. There's no need to change that part, but I think putting an "Exit" sign above the door to signal to the player that it is the end would be a good idea.

 

Map 02
- If you're expecting pistol starts, okay, but six shotgunners at the start is harsh. The only way I'm fighting those is by hiding behind cover and plinking them down from behind the wall.
- More giant open spaces with hitscanners in the distance.
- The enemies coming in behind trickle in too slowly. You probably want multiple teleporter destinations to speed that up. Also, that's way too many chaingunners teleporting in from behind who will - if the map is played "as intended" - snipe at you from across the map.
- The secret Soul Sphere gets revealed really easily because of all the fire which is going to be coming through.
- I liked having to charge into the faces of monsters to get the SSG. That's good encounter design.
- Where is the armor? Hitscan is unavoidable damage. Give players armor to help mitigate damage.
- After clearing out the horde from the room with the caged switch, I was expecting some traps. There was a room with bodies in it and some ammo, but otherwise bland. It looked suitable for an ambush, no ambush happened. It opened up a room with 2 Revenants and a Baron, which wasn't threatening at all.
- The pinky ambush happening a little way in was more interesting because the trigger
- No ambush when entering the cage and when getting the blue key. I was expecting one.
- I opened the blue key door. Nothing. Opened up the second door, and as soon as I popped my head in, enemies started swarming in through teleports. I just did what I did in level 1 and shut the door, knowing the enemies couldn't open it, and that I could make them wipe themselves out from safety.
- Normally I'd say that you should trigger that ambush when you're halfway across the room, but not with that amount of enemies and that amount of hitscan among them with only one single medkit (the WAD's first!).
- Finally, some green armor appears - AFTER all but 3 hitscanners in the level are dead.
- The encounter design is really strange. You have a huge easily cheesable teleporter trap, then a couple easy rooms with imps, 3 zombies, nothing, and a cacodemon and pinky (what?)
- No ambush again after getting the red key. That's not a problem, exactly, but it is strange.
- I liked the fight in the red key door. It triggers partway through the room, and it has a good mix of enemies.
- The fight at the end with imps and cacos is just filler, and the only challenge might be because you're short on ammo.
- The switch to open the exit is placed strangely, just put it beside the exit, since there's no threats left to deal with once you can reach it anyway.

 

Map 03

- There's a staircase with a switch at the top in the room of imps and cacos, but there are impassible lines even though it looks like you SHOULD be able to drop down. Don't do that. If it's impassible, it should look impassible.
- A lot of encounters which I can and do run away from rather than engage.
-- I didn't bother with the lost souls. Why should I when they weren't in my way, and I know they can't follow me away.
-- I ran around the barons in front of the elevator, because I only had 28 shells and didn't want to waste half of them on a couple barons I could just move around.
-- I got the red key and secret without firing a shot, because the only thing in there by default is two easily-avoided cacodemons.
- In my own maps, I had the habit of putting in a lot of unopenable doors for decoration, and I was told that was confusing. They had a point. Perhaps pick one texture for "doors which never open", and use it only on all the decorative doors that don't open.
- The rocket-launcher fight was another "run around and get monsters to infight" thing. I didn't actually expend any rockets. I only really felt the need to engage the chaingunners that teleport in and the two hell knights barring the way back.
- Ammo scarcity leads me to avoiding using ammo when possible. If I have a healthy supply, I spend it to end fights faster.
- I used the rockets on the Revenants by the exit, as that was a tougher encounter with a bunch of them which I wanted dead fast.
- I really dislike when people use the exit DOOR texture as an exit SWITCH.

 

I've played through maps 4 and 5 as well, and my thoughts on those will be on similar lines of encounter balance. I got as far as the room on Map 05 just past the Pain Elemental/Coffin room, which had a tremendous swarm of enemies, and chaingunners on platforms, but I only had 10 rockets, nowhere near enough to deal with that amount of stuff, and that's with me running past most enemies and only using the rockets on the swarm which appeared after getting the yellow key.

 

Also, your lighting is pretty bland, everything is well lit and there isn't a lot of contrast.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Stabbey
additional info

[Omniplex]

I have to say that this megaWAD is not going anywhere good. I'm very stressed right and my head feels heavy right now...

 

Alright, I have spent a very good amount of time, effort and work on this. I understand the criticism here, I have taken a lot of notes regarding the game play. Maybe I should leave this WAD to you guys and make edits here. I'm sure you can do way better than me. Cheers.

[Silhouette 03]

2 minutes ago, Omniplex said:

I have to say that this megaWAD is not going anywhere good. I'm very stressed right and my head feels heavy right now...

If you're feeling stressed, I'd highly recommend you take a few days off and clear your head. There's no need to rush. I'll still be here and willing to test whenever you're ready. Stay safe and healthy, man. 

[Omniplex]

Right, thanks for the reply and yes I really need more rest. I usually take complete rest from my daily routine every Sunday, and become stress free. It appears that I need more, or just been into mapping only and day after day for a very long time. It's time I do something completely different than mapping :)

 

EDIT: It's just I also need to get rid of these old maps, these were made around 5 years ago and if I am going back to mapping someday; I will try to make them completely different than the first 21 maps, with completely different feel and game-play. The secret count will also be much higher, and a little harder to spot. I still have maps 22 till 30 and two secrets, but I'll leave them empty for now. Sometimes I get encouraged and sometimes I don't, I'm sure everybody in the world feel like that at times. Cheers :)

Edited March 29, 2021 by Omniplex

[Rudolph]

Eh. Do not push yourself too hard. Remember that the authors of E1M10: Sewers held on to their map for a decade before putting it in Xbox Doom 3. ;)

Edited March 29, 2021 by Rudolph

[Omniplex]

Thanks for chilling me up from terrible frustration. I do not know if I should continue making megawads completely on my own or not, one-man megawad projects are unbelievably challenging I tell you and I believe this is the reason why I'm feeling frustrated. This was planned to be a four megawad series so I still have Haunting Outbreak 3 and 4 to go. They are always in my head everyday despite being future megawads, can you imagine making a total of 132 maps on your own? That is INSANE

 

I may turn both Haunting Outbreak 3 and 4 into community projects. Currently I have made a total of 57 maps on my own and that is already a big lot. After I finish with both the third and fourth installments, I was also planning to make enormous slaughter-maps (in a similar way to Sunder) that with each level is a different element. For example: The first map will be an earth element, the third will have ice element, the eight will be all-out metallic and so on. There would be 12 of them, and a single secret map that will be either Norse or Celtic themed with a good amount of scripts and 3D floors but I have to finish the Haunting Outbreak series first.

 

If I still have to make maps on my own for the old series, the maps (especially the earlier ones) will be far shorter. Long maps will be applied only by the end of any episode, and also at the very end of the megawad like MAP29 or MAP28. I will also apply less sectors on my levels, I feel that I put too much sectors. For example: I have made over 4300 sectors in MAP20, it took me around 3 weeks or so to finish and it may possibly lag due to detailing and the amount of monsters present, which is lose to a thousand.

[Silhouette 03]

Sounds good, man. Heh, there's a reason that there aren't many one-person megawads out there. The amount of time and effort involved is enormous. I genuinely think that it would be better for you to scale down your projects. Making three more solo megawads is a massive undertaking, and could take tremendous strain on your mental health. I'd genuinely like to see what you can do, but your mental health should always come first. It's your call, but this is my personal suggestion.

 

Do you want me to continue testing the wad, or do you want to leave it as for now? I'm happy with either.

[Omniplex]

I would definitely scale it down, great idea. Like I said, I could also just turn the two future megawads into community projects. I would also like to leave it for now, but you guys are more than welcome to make edits on this installment. Don't worry if you have other things to do, or working on your maps :)

 

UPDATE: I have decided, I would like to give away this WAD for better mappers to make edits. This WAD is starting to get on my nerves, interfering with my mind all the time. Also, Haunting Outbreak 3 and 4 along with any other future maps aren't going to happen. I'm very sorry guys but DooM is starting to stress me up now and I wish to never think of this game ever again, I just want to clear my mind and forget what I did in the past and all the past abominations I have made. This may hurt, but it's time for me to move on for good :(

Edited March 31, 2021 by Omniplex