I wonder about the "future" plans/post mortem state of the game

[whatup876]

People will still be talking about and playing it but how else do you think Doom Eternal will be like in like 10 or 20 years?

This is a phenomenal game with "Eternal" in its name and part of a series known for its staying power and ongoing fanbase.

 

Considering 2016 later gave away all the DLC for free, i hope something happens with the skins/podiums/emotes/icons/banners/etc.

Mostly a case of accessibility, preservation, longevity etc.

But also because i just think time based events are a bit too "FOMO/Mobile Game"-ish in a game called "Doom ETERNAL", with the gameplay of Doom Eternal and part of the Doom series: even if the engine never goes open source or id follows the "hacker beliefs" that Carmack and Romero had again.

In general, an arguement of "lose nothing, gain something" feels relevant, because even the basic recolored model skins have some effort into them.

Some people don't care about silly meme skins (you can't blame them, of course) but they're still history and the same goes for Mighty Doom and its content. (that game once had a Mars Core level that is now gone, but i wonder if it will return).

 

It would be a matter of worrying more about the future of the game than the present and this even includes other methods of getting skins besides just events (like BNet, Slayer's Club, Twitch Prime etc) just for the sake of "just in case", even if this topic comes off as ODC-ish.

I also don't recall 2016 having proper off-line support for MP, even with bots and probably the same for Doom 3.

 

I also known they had some plans for modding tools, even if we still have to wait for them.

There are some mods but they're still bound to current limitations.

They have yet to implement Invasion was well.

It's also important to consider factors like COVID, that Texas event and even the season pass year 1 release, that may have lead to TAGP2 feeling a bit "undercooked" in some area.

 

Speaking of preservation, i suggested a music jukebox (that even included unused/barely heard tracks) and an ingame art gallery could be neat, specially because there's still concept art that wasn't even in the "The Art Of Doom 2016/Eternal" artbooks. (a Ratchet and Clank style museum would have been fun but require too much effort and even actually let Romero or Bobby Prince release what is left of Doom asset history or checking TCRF and some of the Doom documentarions in the fanbase maybe)

 

This also applies to game updates, from gameplay balance/tweaks (like the recent gameplay balances of even previous ones) to the new main menu theme replacing the old one instead of giving an option to choose (the Mick Gordon drama makes this one part sadder too, besides how amazing the Icon of Sin remix is, it's almost like a definitive Doom theme)

 

Hell, even the Doog/Korone easter egg they cut in like 5 days also fits here.

This topic also feels motivated by the modern day and age we live in, with a lot of online/digital services going down or changing/erasing stuff, lost media, preservation, history etc.

It also always falls in a "something to gain, nothing to less except maybe time" because there's always a difference between "someone doesn't care" and "someone thinks something should just vanish".

 

id has proven to have higher standards than some other companies, so i hope they continue to find ways to get higher in that regard.

 

I might fucked up something while making this thread too.

 

edit: also, gameplay changes could make a lot of videos and stuff age, like strategic videos too.

Edited March 24, 2021 by whatup876

[D4NUK1]

Well, it's still early to wonder what will happens, seeing they want to made Master Levels, and i presume, Master Levels for the DLC (Speculation from my end, but would be a really cool thing to do).

I Really don't expect too much year life spam (i'm saying like 5 years ) until a new iD Game replace the main players of Eternal. It's would be appreciated like it's still appreciated 2016, people play time for time. New Players, etc. But if they open a little more they mod support, i see how people would make more advanced arenas, maybe a mini-style of campaing.

 

[Vic Vos]

Time-based skins are garbage and don't belong in gaming.
I don't think official mod support will come to Eternal at all.

[Z.Franz]

Honestly, the game lost the right to be called Eternal when it started depending on online verification to play, at least on the Bethesda Launcher version.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Z.Franz

[DooM Bear]

Without proper modding tools released, I honestly don’t see many people playing it in 2 years (apart from new players that found it on sale) let alone 10-20.

 

Even with modding tools, I don’t think it will live much longer than that anyways unfortunately (maybe 5 at a stretch).

 

There just isn’t much to do once you’ve completed the game at this time and personally I just don’t get the pull to play it like I do from the older titles.

 

I hope I am wrong and it picks up dramatically and we get to see all sorts of cool shit!

[Z.Franz]

Not to mention that Doom1993 was a little miracle. Despite being the Crysis of those times from a technical standpoint, it was relatively simple, both in gameplay, level complexity and engine. Doom Eternal is anything but simple, on all fronts.

[Caco Stole My Pants]

Just registered only to give my 2 cents for a brand that i love.

IMHO, only the fanbois haven't noticed that this game is already on the verge of death, longevity-side speaking. Steam statistics show a gap of around 8-7k players between the release of the DLCs (10k) and the normal daily gaming routine (2-3k at best), and i just can't see the good side of having a drop around the 70-80% of the users connected during the week, logging only to farm some points for the rewards. I don't know on other platforms, but there shouldn't be much more difference in the terms of simultaneously connected users; if you have some data, feel free to show me.

Add the fact -because it's a fact- that Battlemode is a total failure: the queue to find a game is sometimes infinite (maybe the "eternal" was referred to the queue time, in the end) and the ragequitters are a lot more than i had imagined. I myself have not touched that mode for quite some months and i still don't regret it at all.
Don't address me as a BM hater, i have played a lot of matches and almost reached the golden reward, but i just can't stand the queue timing and the heavy limits this mode has compared to the classic deathmatches or even other games out there (CTF, tower defense, TDM...). The limit to the number of players completely kills the fun; even the classic DM is repetitive as BM, but having more people to play in the same match just adds some good "chaos" to the game and gives some more satisfaction playing it.

And this supposed "Invasion" mode *chuckles*, IF it even exists, being just a carbon copy of BM in single player maps doesn't excite me at all. Just the fact that it isn't already implemented after ONE YEAR since the release says it all about the seriousness of ID. I just can't believe the story of the pandemic slowing the project: if Invasion was already set to come out shortly after the release it means that the basics were ready and just needed some more polishing...and ONE YEAR of "polishing" something that should be already developed and ready to deploy is just unacceptable. Did they want to give priority to the DLCs development? Well, if you can develop from scratch 2 DLCs during a pandemic i just can't understand why you can't work on a product you should have ready to release. I have some serious doubts about the reception of that mode.

Other companies are working with the same difficulties as ID have nowdays and are constantly updating and working on the core of their projects, not releasing some shitty skins monthly just to keep the fanbase busy while they do that storytelling abort that is TAG2. Nothing to do about the mechanics...since are the exact same as the core game and TAG1 with the additon of tweety-tweet yellow birds over the heads of stunned DEMONS. I'm just expecting talking owls, pink elephants and annoying squirrels in the Doom Fortress on the next patch.

For me, the only way for them to have a future on this brand is to develop an open world approach with events in which lots of players can partecipate in cooperative vs AI or pvp. The Jakkad siege might be a pretty good multiplayer mode for demons vs sentinels matches and a nice addition (always IMHO); plus they MUST abandon the "WeLuvOnlyBattulmodz" mentality and reintroduce the classic multiplayer modes.
Oh, and a semi-full mods support, or else i give to this game from 2 to 5 years of lifespan, as stated by others.

Sorry but, with these statements, the 10-20 years prediction of lifespan just made me laugh a bit (with no offense, really, but i just started smiling at that)

Edited March 24, 2021 by Caco Stole My Pants

[Robot_Joe]

i think it's nuts for a doom game to not at the very least have a level editor. I think the excuse people give of it being too complicated or whatever is a lousy one.

[jazzmaster9]

2 minutes ago, Robot_Joe said:

i think it's nuts for a doom game to not at the very least have a level editor. I think the excuse people give of it being too complicated or whatever is a lousy one.

Its a perfectly valid reason. Even with Doom 2016, with how limited Snapmap was. there is a point where the technology is just too complex to have modding tools available that hobbyists like us can learn and use quickly.

 

This is coming from someone who has modded Doom with even the best tools around and even that is a huge task. People will never know how time consuminh modding is until they try it.

[whatup876]

SnapMap also had some props and things exclusive to it.

I recall an time that made demons friendly.

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Demon_control_grenade

[Azuris]

7 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Its a perfectly valid reason. Even with Doom 2016, with how limited Snapmap was. there is a point where the technology is just too complex to have modding tools available that hobbyists like us can learn and use quickly.

 

This is coming from someone who has modded Doom with even the best tools around and even that is a huge task. People will never know how time consuminh modding is until they try it.

 

Hm i am not sure about this.

The needed Ressources are Higher, but would it be so much more complex than Doom 3 or Skyrim?

 

I think the Decission to Release an Editor depends on how much Control the Developers/Publisher want over their Product.

Here it seems ID wants to decide what Players get and how to bind them (Skins etc.).

They even hindered you to play the Game in Singleplayer if you didn't wanted to instal Denuvo Anti Cheat.

 

Bethesda itself also wants to go a more binding Way with its Games.

I doubt the next Elder Scrolls will be as free with Modifications as Skyrim was.

They want to monetize this Sector and more Control over the published Stuff.

 

Back to Eternal:

With very very very much Luck, we'll se a Gog Release without Multiplayer support in many many Years.

 

(i've made myself a backup copy when they decided to block me out of the Game with Denuvo anti cheat, i've spended 80 Euros for the Version with dlcs and they show their dirty Face?)

[Caco Stole My Pants]

12 minutes ago, Azuris said:

 

Hm i am not sure about this.

The needed Ressources are Higher, but would it be so much more complex than Doom 3 or Skyrim?

 

Bioware released their property toolset for Neverwinter Nights and the development of a full adventure was as complicated as building a Doom map (scripting the events, skin editing, model editing, map building, texture editing etc...), maybe with a more visual helping, but the concept was the exact same.
This around 10 years ago.

And it's still being used by quite a lot of players around the world.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Caco Stole My Pants

[D4NUK1]

4 hours ago, Caco Stole My Pants said:

 

Bioware released their property toolset for Neverwinter Nights and the development of a full adventure was as complicated as building a Doom map (scripting the events, skin editing, model editing, map building, texture editing etc...), maybe with a more visual helping, but the concept was the exact same.
This around 10 years ago.

And it's still being used by quite a lot of players around the world.

In this video show how devs works in the iD Tech 7 engine. Make you own conclusions with the info if this would be a easy feature for a more hobby mapper style.
 

 

[Duke of Pathoris]

The game will get people coming back to play the campaign every few years. Multiplayer is nothing to write home about and the game will not be sustained on it but in the end, we never want the campaign to become secondary to multiplayer in the same way it happened with the Quake franchise.

[jazzmaster9]

I Will say this, look at all the great games of the past that have little to no modding or multiplayer communities. Medal of Honor AA, CoD 4, Bioshock 1, Classic Final Fantasy and all our classics. No reason to replay these games other than their base single player experience, but they are still remembered as great titles years after their release, LONG after the multiplayer Servers that's suppose to enhance longevity died. 

 

A Games doesn't have to be constantly played by the masses for 10-20 to be considered great or relevant. Hell people still debate about Doom 3 and 2016 till this day.

I doubt Eternal is something that will be forgotten in 2-3 years, with how different it was from most games out at this time, and especially not after commission it caused good or bad.

 

the mentality that a game NEEDS to have Multiplayer and Modding to have any semblance of longevity doesn't hold water in my opinion. Will havint it help? Absolutely, but its not the end all be all. Sometimes a Solid and memorable singleplayer is all a game needs.

 

i'll give it 10 years down the line that the Marauder will still give people PTSD by the mere mention of its name. Like how we still talk about using Oddjob in 007 (there are probably better examples out there lol)

Edited March 24, 2021 by jazzmaster9

[Azuris]

33 minutes ago, jamondemarnatural said:

In this video show how devs works in the iD Tech 7 engine. Make you own conclusions with the info if this would be a easy feature for a more hobby mapper style.
 

 

 

Well, i couldn't see the whole Video at Work, but some of the Editors didn't look soo different from what the Editor for Quake 3 or Doom 3 was.

To make a Jump Pad or Lift work you had to write the Script (or copy it from a magazine like i did :P)

Besides that, Editors that are given free are often especially made for end users.
The Editor for Starcraft 2 for example makes it very simple to make your own Level.

With a bit experience you can use the premade script and very experienced User can write their own Stuff.

 

It depends on the Developer in the End

 

[Caco Stole My Pants]

36 minutes ago, Azuris said:

 

Well, i couldn't see the whole Video at Work, but some of the Editors didn't look soo different from what the Editor for Quake 3 or Doom 3 was.

To make a Jump Pad or Lift work you had to write the Script (or copy it from a magazine like i did :P)

Besides that, Editors that are given free are often especially made for end users.
The Editor for Starcraft 2 for example makes it very simple to make your own Level.

With a bit experience you can use the premade script and very experienced User can write their own Stuff.

 

It depends on the Developer in the End

 

 

^ this

Aurora toolset was a mix of the softwares Bioware used to develop the game and they made it "open" enough to allow the community to create contents with other more advanced softwares like 3D Studio/Logic etc. and let import them in the game (the .hak files, something like the .wad of doom).

The same thing applies to any other software, "if the developer has the will to do it"

And looking that video, the only complex thing i see are the geometrical builds of the models, which is evident and obvious for a 2020 game compared to one of the early 2000...the rest seems to work pretty the same as the old Aurora (decalcs, lighting positioning, transitions...)

[Duke of Pathoris]

9 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

the mentality that a game NEEDS to have Multiplayer and Modding to have any semblance of longevity doesn't hold water in my opinion. Will havint it help? Absolutely, but its not the end all be all. Sometimes a Solid and memorable singleplayer is all a game needs.

Hear hear! Multiplayer support often dies out but the campaign can be played forever. Eternal will be remembered for its thrilling single player campaign. Every so often, people will come back to it, play the campaign, and then pop it back into their metaphorical shelf for a year or so until coming back to it.

[jazzmaster9]

When I hear people say "Doom Eternal will be forgotten in 2 years unlike Classic Doom cuz modding/deathmatch" I don't and probably never will understand it.

When there are many games that are still remembered years later than don't have an active competitive or scene.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by jazzmaster9

[Bridgeburner56]

41 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

When I hear people say "Doom Eternal will be forgotten in 2 years unlike Classic Doom cuz modding/deathmatch" I don't and probably never will understand it.

When there are many games that are still remembered years later than don't have an active competitive or scene.

More importantly it's not worth getting up in arms about. Or even remotely put out.
Do you find Doom Eternal Fun? If so then yay have fun until you don't. If not then play something else that you do find fun. Endlessly pontificating about what might happen in 5 or 10 years and whether or not it'll be popular is a waste of energy. And even if it is forgotten you'll still be able to play it

[Tony_Danza_the_boss]

I've done enough shitting on Eternal and my distaste for it, so I will try to be positive about it here. I hope Invasion is eventually put in, but I honestly doubt it the more time goes by. As for modding, I doubt Id will release any tools and we'd be lucky to even get the snapmap feature back from D2016. Id is much more corporate now with Bethesda as their umbrella, and I honestly believe in 2021 most game devs will not/cannot release their source code for any such games going foward.

[Robot_Joe]

Probably unless they can do mod tools in such a way where your only option to upload what you created is through the bethesda creation club lol

[NoXion]

25 minutes ago, Tony_Danza_the_boss said:

I've done enough shitting on Eternal and my distaste for it, so I will try to be positive about it here. I hope Invasion is eventually put in, but I honestly doubt it the more time goes by.

Why? It's the only feature left to add to the game that was promised before launch, now that the second DLC has been released. The only thing I can think of that would stop them, would be if they were to devote all of their manpower towards post-DLC patching, which seems... unlikely.

[Cosmos Of Kings]

How about more Master Levels that are similar to the Arc Complex one. After playing it, I prefer it over the standard level as that now feels too empty and easy. I just hope they don't follow the Super Gore Nest Master Level design though, the enemy placement is insane and the fog/buff totems aren't fun.

[Stoltzmann]

26 minutes ago, Cosmos Of Kings said:

How about more Master Levels that are similar to the Arc Complex one. After playing it, I prefer it over the standard level as that now feels too empty and easy. I just hope they don't follow the Super Gore Nest Master Level design though, the enemy placement is insane and the fog/buff totems aren't fun.

 

Hugo said in toyota stream that future master levels will have shitton of enemies, by the tone of his voice it seems like he has no better ideas and there is nothing left to do but just to throw a bunch of demons at the player.

 

Personally, I think fighting harder and faster but less demons is better than fighitng more standard and weak enemies, for example I think it is more fun and challenging to fight armored baron + possessed arachnotron than two normal barons and two normal arachnotrons. Also in my opinion only one heavy/super heavy demon with like 3 weak points would be better than 5 reskinned enemies we've got in TAG 2.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Stoltzmann

[NoXion]

5 hours ago, Stoltzmann said:

 

Hugo said in toyota stream that future master levels will have shitton of enemies, by the tone of his voice it seems like he has no better ideas and there is nothing left to do but just to throw a bunch of demons at the player.

 

Personally, I think fighting harder and faster but less demons is better than fighitng more standard and weak enemies, for example I think it is more fun and challenging to fight armored baron + possessed arachnotron than two normal barons and two normal arachnotrons. Also in my opinion only one heavy/super heavy demon with like 3 weak points would be better than 5 reskinned enemies we've got in TAG 2.

They can't really go for slaughtermap-level demon numbers because of technological limitations. Rather than just shoving more demons at the player, my impression was that the Master Levels are where they can really cut loose and put together truly "evil" combinations of enemies, as mentioned in T0yota's video.

Edited March 25, 2021 by NoXion

[bobbie424242]

In 20 years almost nobody will remember or care about Doom 2016 and DE.

But people will still remember and play Classic Doom because of its timeless, simple but deep gameplay and

wealth of user content and the fact it can run anywhere for eternity.

Doom is eternal, but not the one you think...

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by bobbie424242

[Duke of Pathoris]

People talk about mod support being important but legit, why? So that we can have one finished total conversion and a dozen and a half unfinished? Looking back in 20 years' time and thinking "Damn, I sure wish that total remake of [old game] as a Doom Eternal mod would get out of the alpha phase". Yes I'm sure that will boost the longevity of the game. 

What else increases the longevity? Multiplayer! So that in 10 years we can look back and say "Damn, I sure wish the servers for that game were still up, it was kinda fun but most of the games now have a similar experience anyway."

[Robot_Joe]

strange seeing folk arguing against modding. 

[whatup876]

I think a good thing about replayability is simply to see that the game still exists, because it's a bit more than just listening to the same music/song or rewatching a movie.

It doesn't have to be "is it still good" but rather "does it still exist/can i access it".

Specially in with the state of both physical and digital media and tech as a whole.

 

It also happens that OG Doom modding is technically an effort of both parties: id trying to make sure it was all possible in the first place and fans creating efforts and history of how they kept the games alive.

Mods, ports, documentation, wikis etc so much that could have been studied and even compared to other fanbases, because i think even some older fans may forget important things.

Edited March 25, 2021 by whatup876