I wonder about the "future" plans/post mortem state of the game

[DooM Bear]

1 hour ago, jazzmaster9 said:

With how unique Doom Eternal is compared to other first person shooters around this time period. I doubt that will be the case.

 

 

 

For me at least, DooM Eternals uniqueness is part of the problem.

 

Generally when I replay a linear game years later I am usually hoping to have some quick fun and knock it out in a few hours.

 

With Doom 2016 the mechanics are the same as pretty much any shooter so I can jump in, start kicking ass and go on a power trip having a great time.

 

With Eternal though, you will have to relearn the bazillion mechanics and controls before you can play it well again and I see that being very frustrating.

 

That might just be a me problem though.

[Maes]

On 3/24/2021 at 8:29 PM, jazzmaster9 said:

This is coming from someone who has modded Doom with even the best tools around and even that is a huge task. People will never know how time consuminh modding is until they try it.

Probably in the (near?) future there will be some app that will allow you to just roam around your neighborhood/town, and automatically create a fully textured map that you can play, or somesuch. That's the 20x0 way of doing things. Sitting in front of a computer with a CAD-like drawing program....nah, that's so 1990s....

[jazzmaster9]

1 hour ago, Maes said:

Probably in the (near?) future there will be some app that will allow you to just roam around your neighborhood/town, and automatically create a fully textured map that you can play, or somesuch. That's the 20x0 way of doing things. Sitting in front of a computer with a CAD-like drawing program....nah, that's so 1990s....

Yeah maybe sometime in the future *shrug* Until then Making Levels for Doom Eternal will be too much for most hobbyist modders with how it is made.

Edited March 29, 2021 by jazzmaster9

[Maes]

13 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Yeah maybe sometime in the future *shrug* Until then Making Levels for Doom Eternal will be too much for most hobbyist modders with how it is made.

Or for pretty much any post-Doom (the original one...) FPS. Coming up with an interesting 2D floorplan is already hard enough for most people, but having to actually think and sculpt things and environments with a full-fledged third dimension is way, way beyond. IRL, only avant-garde architects and civil engineers really do that sort of thing professionally, with professional game level designers being a close second, with the difference that they never need to deal with rebar, concrete and contractors at any point.

 

With editors such as SnapMap you can take away a lot of the complexity by doing the RL equivalent of joining prefab blocks....but that's also taking away a lot of the creativity and potential. Few things are as debilitating as an editor that doesn't really allow you to create maps of the complexity that you actually see in-game. It's kinda like putting you in a sandbox/playground with Fisher-Price "tools" while watching real construction workers nearby :-)

 

But then again, for most people that will be the difference between being able to create something and being overwhelmed by the sheer complexity and preliminary "studies" that one has to undertake before even drawing their first bare room.

 

It's the difference between e.g. creating a Wordpress site from a template that someone else has prepared for you, and making a website starting from raw HTML. With the former, even a total noob can just register and have something to show for it. With the latter, you might need months of training before making something even remotely acceptable/comparable (in the 1990s, you might have gotten away with a few days or weeks at the most, today there's so much more one needs to master).

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Maes

[magicsofa]

On 3/24/2021 at 9:45 AM, Z.Franz said:

Honestly, the game lost the right to be called Eternal when it started depending on online verification to play, at least on the Bethesda Launcher version.

Is this only for the launcher version? Cuz if not it's just absurd to have all this banter about modding, when the company is holding the only key to the product. They're going to throw it in the trash as soon as they want you to buy something else. That's the only purpose for pretending your product is actually a continuous service that could be mysteriously cut off at any time...

[NoXion]

Recently I've been having trouble connecting to the Bethesda.net servers. Hasn't stopped me playing the game. Maybe it's different for Steam users?

[Z.Franz]

I wouldn't know. I could never play the game while offline. I could never get past the bethesda login.

Maybe they changed it? I quit the game for good when the Denuvo Anticheat fiasco came up and never looked back since

[Yurax]

3 hours ago, Maes said:

 architects and civil engineers really do that sort of thing professionally

 

Thats very true and real reason why modding 2.5D 90's dooms was so easy and modern ones so challenging, but still there may be workaround - remodel existing memorial buildings. Stations, museums for Taras Nabad style, castle, graveyard, church or cathedral for Nekravol style. Only imagination limits how to fit them together.

And, asides from not handling real concrete, here it even not necessary need hardness to fit together.

[Duke of Pathoris]

15 hours ago, Maes said:

Or for pretty much any post-Doom (the original one...) FPS. Coming up with an interesting 2D floorplan is already hard enough for most people, but having to actually think and sculpt things and environments with a full-fledged third dimension is way, way beyond. IRL, only avant-garde architects and civil engineers really do that sort of thing professionally, with professional game level designers being a close second, with the difference that they never need to deal with rebar, concrete and contractors at any point.

 

With editors such as SnapMap you can take away a lot of the complexity by doing the RL equivalent of joining prefab blocks....but that's also taking away a lot of the creativity and potential. Few things are as debilitating as an editor that doesn't really allow you to create maps of the complexity that you actually see in-game. It's kinda like putting you in a sandbox/playground with Fisher-Price "tools" while watching real construction workers nearby :-)

 

But then again, for most people that will be the difference between being able to create something and being overwhelmed by the sheer complexity and preliminary "studies" that one has to undertake before even drawing their first bare room.

 

It's the difference between e.g. creating a Wordpress site from a template that someone else has prepared for you, and making a website starting from raw HTML. With the former, even a total noob can just register and have something to show for it. With the latter, you might need months of training before making something even remotely acceptable/comparable (in the 1990s, you might have gotten away with a few days or weeks at the most, today there's so much more one needs to master).

 

That really is why modding, even if it were supported, would see incredibly little uptake.

 

EDIT: I suppose I should elaborate. As the engine gets more complex, a lot less mods are made. Compare the Doom 3 modding scene to the Doom II modding scene.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Duke of Pathoris

[Erick]

All I can say about Doom Eternal's longevity is that as long as people like the game and share their thoughts to others, people will keep playing and coming back to it for years. Same applies to Doom 2016, chances are Doom Eternal got people to try that game just to check it out. Single-player lasts forever, I could care less for the Battle Mode in this game, shame about the lack of traditional deathmatch but I guess there is Quake Champions for that.

 

I will say, I am still a bit soured that Doom Eternal doesn't have the SnapMap mode from Doom 2016, would have been nice to have a cross-platform map editor to substitute modding. Having Doom Eternal's mechanics in the mix and with less strict limits (if possible) sounds great if you ask me. SnapMap in Doom 2016 was getting pretty good in content after several updates, though I'll admit it was getting unoptimized and load times are horrible, even on high-end PCs apparently. Doesn't help that just about 4% of players on Steam even played 5 SnapMap levels, so I can see why it was dropped in Eternal. Still a shame to me, and the mods currently out there for Eternal just don't cut it for me.

[Bridgeburner56]

Keep it civil please or this thread will be locked

[whatup876]

I also wonder about fans that will make sure others will carry over and keep the longevity going.

Like, there will always be people keep it alive, because they technically have to.

Specially in the case of classic Doom, because the people hosting certain sites or content wont last forever.

So, i wonder if the old blood has plans to train or recruit newer/younger fans to make sure things do last.

[LANEGRACABRA]

id software are the godfathers of FPS, I think they could pull off the basic Doom gameplay without needing ton of different mechanics. Focusuing on superb sound and shooting/gun design, add something like slight variety to different base enemy classes (spikes, horns, color, weapons, outfits etc).

 

I also think we are long overdue for proper procedural dismemberment system (the E3 2015 Doom gameplay had some interesting things happen, like half-torso blown off, legs blown off with upper half crawling) and persistent corpses (this was also in the E3 2015 demo).