[Released] Ultimate MIDI Pack - A community music replacement for the original Doom

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3 minutes ago, chilpillwill said:

Just out of curiosity, is there a SoundFont or module that you use for GM sounds? I've always found Chorium and FluidR3 to be pretty solid.

FluidR3 comes with my OS, but always messes the sound balancing for me on MIDIs. As such I use https://archive.org/details/SC55EmperorGrieferus to compose and to listen to other people's tracks, generally. Other users generally balance for GS Wavetable. I'm also likely to ask someone to record the project's MIDIs on a real Roland SC-55 or SC-88 when everything is in.

Edited May 16, 2021 by northivanastan

[Lippeth]

4 minutes ago, northivanastan said:

I'm also likely to ask someone to record the project's MIDIs on a real Roland SC-55 or SC-88 when everything is in.

If you want the actual SC-55 sound, I can do recording with either an original SC-55 or a mkII, both sound a little different with certain percussion instruments, but the option is there to choose. If you want the SC-88 sound, I'm sure you're aware of @DCG Retrowave, and if he uses the SC-55 map, do know that it isn't 1:1 with an SC-55 (from what I've read, needs confirmation), though you may prefer the difference.

 

In other news, I'm still plodding away at my final submission with E4M7, though it's very slow going and I've scrapped quite a few ideas. I started strong out of the gates with a good idea, but it ended up fitting better for a different project, so I had to restart from scratch. I may be open to collaboration if I don't get something solid within a day or so. So far it's just an intro, but I can feel it slowly turning into a full idea. Sometimes I just get hit hard with a no-idea stick and need time to recover, but I'm determined.

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8 hours ago, Lippeth said:

If you want the actual SC-55 sound, I can do recording with either an original SC-55 or a mkII, both sound a little different with certain percussion instruments, but the option is there to choose. If you want the SC-88 sound, I'm sure you're aware of @DCG Retrowave, and if he uses the SC-55 map, do know that it isn't 1:1 with an SC-55 (from what I've read, needs confirmation), though you may prefer the difference.

 

In other news, I'm still plodding away at my final submission with E4M7, though it's very slow going and I've scrapped quite a few ideas. I started strong out of the gates with a good idea, but it ended up fitting better for a different project, so I had to restart from scratch. I may be open to collaboration if I don't get something solid within a day or so. So far it's just an intro, but I can feel it slowly turning into a full idea. Sometimes I just get hit hard with a no-idea stick and need time to recover, but I'm determined.

DCG was who I was planning to ask, though maybe I'll ask both of you to record a sample MIDI or two to see which one I like (between SC-55, SC-55mkII, and SC-88 with SC-55 map)

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

9 hours ago, northivanastan said:

I'm also likely to ask someone to record the project's MIDIs on a real Roland SC-55 or SC-88 when everything is in.

Note that there are some differences between the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth and Roland SC-55 synths, so MIDIs written specifically for MS Synth will not necessarily sound good on a real SC-55.

Some more detailed information on how these differences can cause problems with MIDI playback:

 

Spoiler

All but two of my MIDIs (E2M2: "Halls of Wandering Spirits" and E3M8: "Mother of All Doom", which are balanced solely for MS Synth) were written to sound balanced with both MS Synth and Roland Sound Canvas VA's SC-55 map (I have not bothered with balancing the MIDIs for Virtual Sound Canvas as I don't think many people use it anymore, and it sounds close to MS Synth anyway [although some instruments still sound different]).  With SCVA's SC-55 map, E2M2 and E3M8 have balancing issues and I don't like how some of the instruments sound.  Getting those MIDIs to sound good with "classic" SC-55 sounds would require some editing.

 

To further complicate matters, a number of the native SC-55 hardware's instruments sound completely different in SCVA.  In particular, several orchestral instruments (e.g., String Ensemble 1 [Bobby Prince's E1M5], Choir Aahs [BP's E1M8]) and synth instruments (e.g., SynthStrings 2 [BP's Intro]) use different samples.

 

And there is yet another issue: polyphony limitations.  Here is a link to a VOGONS post by James-F with more information.  Some of my MIDIs, such as E3M6: "On a Sea of Lava" use up all 16 MIDI channels, and according to VSC, my E3M6 MIDI's polyphony peaks at 35--way above what even the SC-55mkII can handle (28 voices).  And my E2M2 MIDI peaks at 42 voices!  Note that notes cutting out shouldn't be a problem with the SC-88 due to its generous 64 voices (the same as SCVA).

 

Despite all this, I am still very interested in hearing everyone's MIDIs on real Sound Canvas hardware.  It should be kept in mind however that the only way to write MIDIs that will sound perfectly balanced on SC-55 hardware is to have a real SC-55.

 

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5 minutes ago, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

Note that there are some differences between the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth and Roland SC-55 synths, so MIDIs written specifically for MS Synth will not necessarily sound good on a real SC-55.

Some more detailed information on how these differences can cause problems with MIDI playback:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

All but two of my MIDIs (E2M2: "Halls of Wandering Spirits" and E3M8: "Mother of All Doom", which are balanced solely for MS Synth) were written to sound balanced with both MS Synth and Roland Sound Canvas VA's SC-55 map (I have not bothered with balancing the MIDIs for Virtual Sound Canvas as I don't think many people use it anymore, and it sounds close to MS Synth anyway [although some instruments still sound different]).  With SCVA's SC-55 map, E2M2 and E3M8 have balancing issues and I don't like how some of the instruments sound.  Getting those MIDIs to sound good with "classic" SC-55 sounds would require some editing.

 

To further complicate matters, a number of the native SC-55 hardware's instruments sound completely different in SCVA.  In particular, several orchestral instruments (e.g., String Ensemble 1 [Bobby Prince's E1M5], Choir Aahs [BP's E1M8]) and synth instruments (e.g., SynthStrings 2 [BP's Intro]) use different samples.

 

And there is yet another issue: polyphony limitations.  Here is a link to a VOGONS post by James-F with more information.  Some of my MIDIs, such as E3M6: "On a Sea of Lava" use up all 16 MIDI channels, and according to VSC, my E3M6 MIDI's polyphony peaks at 35--way above what even the SC-55mkII can handle (28 voices).  And my E2M2 MIDI peaks at 42 voices!  Note that notes cutting out shouldn't be a problem with the SC-88 due to its generous 64 voices (the same as SCVA).

 

Despite all this, I am still very interested in hearing everyone's MIDIs on real Sound Canvas hardware.  It should be kept in mind however that the only way to write MIDIs that will sound perfectly balanced on SC-55 hardware is to have a real SC-55. 

 

The polyphony thing is certainly interesting. Definitely going to ask both Lippeth and DCG in that case, and if the polyphony limitations and sound differences mess things up too badly then I have already made some exports with https://archive.org/details/SC55EmperorGrieferus (the soundfont I'm using to listen to these MIDIs) and I'll use those.

Edited May 16, 2021 by northivanastan

[leejacksonaudio]

I wrote my MIDIs to the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth. It has a max polyphony of 32 notes. I figure that's the lowest common denominator.

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

17 minutes ago, leejacksonaudio said:

It has a max polyphony of 32 notes.

Is there an official source for this?  Impossible Music Wiki says the limit was increased to 64 in Windows XP.

 

I did notice some notes were cutting out in my E3M6 track.  Nudging some of the notes slightly forwards/backwards seemed to fix it.

Edited May 16, 2021 by TheUltimateDoomer666

[leejacksonaudio]

1 minute ago, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

Is there an official source for this?  Impossible Music Wiki says the limit was increased to 64 in Windows XP.

 

I did notice some notes were cutting out in my E3M6 track.  Nudging some of the notes slightly forwards/backwards by seemed to fix it.

You might be right - I think the original GS synth only did 32. I forgot about the XP increase. Still, I'm pretending that someone out there is stuck with an old version.

[Gez]

12 hours ago, northivanastan said:

In unrelated news, @Bloo just published an album that contains covers of several of his MIDIs, including three of the ones he made for this pack.

*her/she, based on this post:

 

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11 minutes ago, Gez said:

*her/she, based on this post:

 

You are correct, edited accordingly.

Edited May 16, 2021 by northivanastan

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

2 hours ago, northivanastan said:

https://archive.org/details/SC55EmperorGrieferus

I listened to my MIDIs with this SoundFont.  It sounds pretty good, aside from some very minor issues.  For example, the Overdriven Guitar fades out over time, which I don't think is the instrument's intended behavior (slightly noticeable on the long guitar notes in my E2M2 MIDI).  The final lead guitar note in that MIDI is intended to fade out regardless; I programmed it that way.

 

I also tried the recent SC-55 SoundFont created from a ROM dump, but that one is still a work-in-progress and has more noticeable issues.  For example, FX 7's (echoes) notes are not mapped correctly, so the Echoes line at 2:02 in E2M2 gets messed up.

Lastly, and this is just personal preference, but I prefer the MS Synth's Echoes over the other SC-55 synths' versions.  In MS Synth, the Echoes are a synthy choir aah sound with a sharp attack and quick decay (like a pluck) and a lot of built-in reverb.  VSC-MP1's Echoes are similar, although they lack the pluck-like attack (the notes stay at full volume throughout) and the reverb can get a bit muddy.  Those versions of the Echoes are very different from the "original" SC-55 ones, which sound more like singing aliens.

 

2 hours ago, northivanastan said:

The polyphony thing is certainly interesting. Definitely going to ask both Lippeth and DCG in that case

If real Sound Canvas recordings do get made, then I think it would be best to do them with an SC-88 in SC-55 mode.  Although I have tweaked some notes in my tracks in an attempt to reduce dropouts, I don't think I can get the polyphony peaks down to the SC-55's 24 or SC-55mkII's 28 without outright deleting notes.

Edited May 16, 2021 by TheUltimateDoomer666
Expanded response.

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Updating the ZIP again with a new MIDI for E2M8 by newcomer @Manniacc. Pretty good for a newcomer, in my opinion.

 

Enjoy: ultimidi-0.1.2.zip

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

20 minutes ago, northivanastan said:

Updating the ZIP again with a new MIDI for E2M8 by newcomer @Manniacc. Pretty good for a newcomer, in my opinion.

 

Enjoy: ultimidi-0.1.2.zip

I don't know if it's intentional, but some of the guitar and bass notes (some Gs and A#s) in the riff at 1:17 and again at 2:44 are duplicated; this results in sudden jumps in volume in certain players/synths.  If the intent was to emphasize those notes, then increasing the notes' velocities is a simpler way to do that.

[DCG Retrowave]

On 5/15/2021 at 10:24 PM, Lippeth said:

If you want the SC-88 sound, I'm sure you're aware of @DCG Retrowave, and if he uses the SC-55 map, do know that it isn't 1:1 with an SC-55 (from what I've read, needs confirmation), though you may prefer the difference.

The SC-88 Pro's SC-55 map is noticeably different, but the SC-88 includes the exact same samples as its predecessor (a few drum samples for the power kit did get tweaked, but it's incredibly subtle and I honestly prefer them :D)

[Manniacc]

15 hours ago, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

I don't know if it's intentional, but some of the guitar and bass notes (some Gs and A#s) in the riff at 1:17 and again at 2:44 are duplicated; this results in sudden jumps in volume in certain players/synths.  If the intent was to emphasize those notes, then increasing the notes' velocities is a simpler way to do that.

I actually did try it with the notes at a velocity at 127 and I'm not even sure if there's a difference between the two but it seemed like having the duplicated notes fit better with what I was trying to do. It sounded fine on my end but if the volume change is too jarring on some players I'll change it.

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

41 minutes ago, Manniacc said:

It sounded fine on my end but if the volume change is too jarring on some players I'll change it.

CoolSoft VirtualMIDISynth makes the volume jumps rather extreme.  The effect is much more subtle with Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth.  If the MIDI is intended to be balanced solely for the MS Synth, then you probably don't need to edit the MIDI.

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Got another update today, containing this project's first collab: E4M6, by the two MIDI legends @Peter and @Cammy. It did not disappoint!

 

Enjoy: ultimidi-0.1.3.zip

[thelazyqdude]

I will be watching this thread with great interest

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

Note that some of the MIDIs in the WAD(s) may still need to be replaced with the most recent versions.  For example, the E2M2 in the ultimidi WAD is an older revision (it will probably be easier to compile the latest versions of everyone's MIDIs into the WADs all at once when the project is finished).
 

On 5/17/2021 at 12:51 AM, northivanastan said:

Updating the ZIP again with a new MIDI for E2M8 by newcomer @Manniacc.

I noticed a looping issue with this track in-game.  The first time the track plays, there is a choir-type instrument (FX 7 [echoes]) present throughout most of the track.  After the track loops, the Echo instrument disappears.  Tested in GZDoom with Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth.

 

 

As for my MIDIs, while I am still open to feedback for all of them, my E2M2 submission is the one that I've been making the most edits to.  Specifically, I'm having trouble getting the transitions at measures 28 and 52 to sound good.  My most recent update to the MIDI is in the midis folder in the ZIP.

Edited May 18, 2021 by TheUltimateDoomer666

[continuum.mid]

7 hours ago, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

Note that some of the MIDIs in the WAD(s) may still need to be replaced with the most recent versions.  For example, the E2M2 in the ultimidi WAD is an older revision (it will probably be easier to compile the latest versions of everyone's MIDIs into the WADs all at once when the project is finished).
 

I noticed a looping issue with this track in-game.  The first time the track plays, there is a choir-type instrument (FX 7 [echoes]) present throughout most of the track.  After the track loops, the Echo instrument disappears.  Tested in GZDoom with Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth.

 

 

As for my MIDIs, while I am still open to feedback for all of them, my E2M2 submission is the one that I've been making the most edits to.  Specifically, I'm having trouble getting the transitions at measures 28 and 52 to sound good.  My most recent update to the MIDI is in the midis folder in the ZIP.

I suspected I might have forgot, though I usually try to keep the newest version in those WADs. I'll fix it soon, and I'll probably have to re-check that everything is up to date before the final release

 

Also, I wanted to clarify a policy for submitters: I have not been applying due dates to people who already have sent work in progress MIDIs. I will, however, set a final due date when all slots are work-in-progress.

Edited May 18, 2021 by northivanastan

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

13 minutes ago, northivanastan said:

I'll fix it soon, and I'll probably have to re-check that everything is up to date before the final release

Yes, this is a good idea, especially since some MIDIs may continue to be tweaked until the project is near release.  With the ".MID the way id did" project for example, Bucket made some last-minute changes to their MIDIs that didn't end up in the initial /idgames or YouTube uploads.

[continuum.mid]

5 minutes ago, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

Yes, this is a good idea, especially since some MIDIs may continue to be tweaked until the project is near release.  With the ".MID the way id did" project for example, Bucket made some last-minute changes to their MIDIs that didn't end up in the initial /idgames or YouTube uploads.

For things like that I plan to have a set minimum amount of time between RC1 and release. So in that time submitters can check that the included version is the final version and submit changes they want to make.

Edited May 18, 2021 by northivanastan

[Diabolución]

Left: ultimidi-0.1.3.wad PWAD.

Right: midis folder.

 

Three MIDIs differ.

 

Quote

https://i.imgur.com/IFJ6PEC.png

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Diabolución said:

Left: ultimidi-0.1.3.wad PWAD.

Right: midis folder.

 

Three MIDIs differ.

 

 

What's worse is that those are all mine :P

 

If I can remember, with the next release I'll make sure both the MIDIs folder and the WADs have my current version.

[continuum.mid]

Today's update is another important one. With the completion of @Lippeth's track for E4M7, Milestone 2 is now complete: that means, all of Thy Flesh Consumed now has original MIDIs! If you've been planning a replay of Thy Flesh Consumed, separately with the original three episodes, now's a good time!

 

Enjoy, and please provide feedback: ultimidi-0.2.0.zip

 

(As a side note, the last update got over 200 downloads, which is... wow.)

Edited May 19, 2021 by northivanastan

[Sego]

I have been playing thy flesh consumed part of the midi pack and it has been awesome so far, congratulations. I will wait until the official release to get the full experience.

[Peter]

My track with @Cammy is up on YouTube with an old demo I recorded of E4M6 NM100S. 

 

[Devalaous]

On 5/20/2021 at 10:48 AM, northivanastan said:

Today's update is another important one. With the completion of @Lippeth's track for E4M7, Milestone 2 is now complete: that means, all of Thy Flesh Consumed now has original MIDIs! If you've been planning a replay of Thy Flesh Consumed, separately with the original three episodes, now's a good time!

 

Enjoy, and please provide feedback: ultimidi-0.2.0.zip

 

(As a side note, the last update got over 200 downloads, which is... wow.)

 

Awesome, now I can play UDTWID at long last. A replay of regular DTWID will follow after the full pack is done.

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

1 hour ago, Devalaous said:

Awesome, now I can play UDTWID at long last. A replay of regular DTWID will follow after the full pack is done.

Do keep in mind that I (and presumably the other composers) wrote the MIDIs to specifically fit the original levels, so there is no guarantee that they will fit (U)DTWID's levels.  My E4M8 MIDI for example was written while playing through E4M8: Unto the Cruel several times on various difficulties, and it looks like E4M8: An End to Darkness is a much longer level with more varied themes.  Everyone is of course still welcome to play through PWADs like (U)DTWID with the MIDI pack.

[Devalaous]

Yeah, im aware of that, but ive played the originals too many times and wont be able to stomach another run through them for quite some time. MIDTWID was made for Doom 2, but it fit D2TWID like a glove after I removed the Map 31 and 32 tracks and moved the Into Sandy's City remix to Map 15 (as it was the one nonsecret level where the designers had intended on a certain theme), and it also fit several other musicless wads. I imagine it will be similar here, although theres not as many megawads for UD that have no music replacements. Biggest one I can think of is No End in Sight, and that deserves its own special midi pack I think.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Devalaous