Would DE have been better without reactionary enemies?

[Potatoguy]

To clarify, "reactionary" enemies are any enemy in Doom Eternal that require quick reactions/responses to allow the greatest means to damage them. Easiest example is Marauder, everyone's favorite asshole. He's pretty much the poster-child for this enemy type in DE; the enemies that are otherwise invulnerable or very hard to kill UNLESS you do this specific thing in a short amount of time. Marauder is somehow much harder to kill with any other conventional means that would annihilate scores of demons without a second thought. As intended, the only reliable way to inflict the most pain to the Fallen Sentinel warrior is to hit them during the telegraph attack wind-up. Popularly referred to as "green-light, red-light" combat.

Marauder isn't the only reactionary-based enemy. Some others, bosses included, fall into this category as well, most coming from the DLCs. Gladiator, Blood Angel, Armored Baron, and the Big Red Man of Hell are all reactionary enemies. Some better executed than others. But the main question still stands;

 

Would DE have been better without these kind of opponents?

 

I would say yes, but I wouldn't want a complete removal of them either.

 

My biggest beef of a lot of these reactionary-based enemies is how much they FORCE you to attack them in very few options. As mentioned, normal weapon tactics used to kill any other demon are just rendered useless against these enemies. The obvious example is a BFG shot doing jack sh@# to the Marauder unless he's been hit during his wind-up. This is a very big reason why I REALLY don't have full satisfaction against the Marauder. I really do like him as a concept, but overall execution is so restricting to battle tactics available, it just saps a lot of enjoyment that he could have otherwise have.

 

Like, would have been so HARD to make his shield be a mechanic of itself? Like maybe the shield isn't invulnerable, and instead had a very high health threshold. I would have been SO DAMN HYPED if that shield of his was destroyable with any super-weapon (BFG, Unmakyr, Crucible, etc) in quick succession, but it would then make the Marauder MUCH more aggressive. Since now he has lost his means of defense, the Marauder could now go on a complete offensive, probably attacking and closing the gap twice as before. This is only just wishful-thinking, but SO MANY of these reactionary enemies would have been far more enjoyable for me to fight if I can just fucking DO something to remove their invincibility bullshit. Let there be a drawback, sure, but FUCK IT, let me KILL THEM.

What are your guy's take?

Edited March 31, 2021 by Potatoguy
grammar fix

[Yurax]

I like Marauder. Among hordes of mindless beasts, he is only one sentient and experienced combatant. It is supposed to be memorable battle with them. He is rarely backed by mob and rarely fought in pair. Armored Baron is great, even he looks great and only one i hate is blood maykr.

But i agree, that cartoony red-green switch is weird, like from some arcade. How else to archieve this?

Being a dev, i make Marauder vulnerable to BFG. Not for me, but for the complainers just to waste their BFG shot.

[AtimZarr1]

Doom Eternal has a lot of "proactive" mechanics - you can proactively shoot off weakpoints to reduce incoming damage, you can proactively freeze/burn enemies for increased resource gain, you can proactively falter enemies with explosives to set-up combos, etc. We could say that these mechanics are an evolution of Doom 2016's "push forward combat" design philosophy. I think the reactionary enemies would be more enjoyable if you could similarly approach them proactively. They experimented this somewhat with the Armored Baron - you can proactively remove its armor using the Plasma Rifle / Microwave Beam or reactively counterattack its green flash attack to remove its armor instead. Here are some suggestions on how to make some reactionary enemies more proactive.

 

---

 

Marauder - Remove its shielding and buff its health - the Marauder will suffer extra damage after the green flash window if successfully counter-attacked. The massive instant shield always looked out of place on the Marauder's otherwise cool character design. Not to mention the shield is just an excuse for people to try to exploit the enemy - Ice Bomb trick, Meathook + Lock-On trick, Lock-On when Marauders jump into the air, etc.

 

Blood Maykr - Remove its shielding - it can die to a single headshot like with Maykr Drones. Perhaps increase the speed of its movements/attacks to compensate.

 

The above two changes would fit more with the proactive "push forward combat" theme present elsewhere in the game, give players extra options of engagement that allow for more aggressive strategies, still reward skilled gameplay (comboing during the Marauder's green flash attack or performing a headshot on a Blood Maykr in the middle of a fight), and they can stick both enemies in more locations without worrying about breaking the invincibility-centric gameplay.

 

Armored Baron - I think this is the ideal compromise: you have a proactive way (Plasma Rifle) and a reactive way (green flash attack) to remove its armor.

 

Gladiator - I think it's fine for a unique boss to have this style of specialized gameplay.

 

Dark Lord - This fight would be something else entirely - to be more interesting and different from the Gladiator concept anyways.

---

An invincibility mechanic isn't inherently a bad thing but there's a reason why we don't fight the Icon of Sin as a reoccurring mini-boss in Doom II - having to interact with platforms/elevation and shoot three rockets into it every so often in "normal" gameplay would probably be annoying after a while.

[DooM Bear]

Hmmmm... that’s a hard question!

 

My first thought was remove them all but after thinking about it a second I’d say keep one or two (maybe the marauder and the armoured baron or something like that?)

 

They definitely have too many at the moment I think though!

[RookieSlayer]

Keeping them is fine if they can be changed to be killed in other ways. I like the enemies that can be killed in different ways. Like Pinkie for example. Shoot it's head and it takes a lot of damage or shoot it's tail for the easy kill. It's more difficult to shoot it's tail but more rewarding. Maykr drone is another example. Headshot it for resources but it still can be killed normally without headshots, just less effective. But the option is there. Imagine if the cacodemon could only be killed with a grenade or the shotgun grenade. A lot of players (myself included) would instantly dislike the cacodemon even though they probably use a grenade to kill it anyways.

 

I think the OP's maruader idea is great! Have that and the original traffic light and there is two options to kill the maruader. It gives the player a choice how they want to deal with the encounter. It may be easier to deal with the maruader using the traffic light strat but if players don't want to wait, they have the option to attack the marauder asap.

[Martin-CAI]

5 hours ago, DooM Bear said:

They definitely have too many at the moment I think though!

 

This is the point. I like that mechanic, because it makes you take priorities and not just spam your left click. But it seems that developers thought that that way was the one and only to create new demons after the main campaign. There are too many already.

 

Let's see. First, we had the Marauder as the only one to be killed at a specific moment. Then, in TAG1 they added the Blood Maykr, but it was also added the Spirit, with which you must use a specific weapon to get it rid of it. Finally, in TAG2, Riot Soldiers, Cursed Prowlers, Stone Imps and Armored Barons. Again, enemies that must be killed in one way.

 

What I think is what could be annoying is not just the fact that you have to wait until a specific moment, but the constant addition of enemies that must be killed in one way. So, if in the main campaign it is way more common to kill anyone with any gun, reaching TAG2 you're gonna have many enemies to be killed in a specific way. 

 

Another problem that I see is the big gap between the efficient way to kill a demon and doing it in a brutal style. Yeah, you can kill Armored Barons and Stone Imps just spamming, but it's ridiculous the amount of ammo and time that you have to waste to do so.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Martin-CAI

[DooM Bear]

36 minutes ago, Martin-CAI said:

 

This is the point. I like that mechanic, because it makes you take priorities and not just spam your left click. But it seems that developers thought that that way was the one and only to create new demons after the main campaign. There are too many already.

 

Let's see. First, we had the Marauder as the only one to be killed at a specific moment. Then, in TAG1 they added the Blood Maykr, but it was also added the Spirit, with which you must use a specific weapon to get it rid of it. Finally, in TAG2, Riot Soldiers, Cursed Prowlers, Stone Imps and Armored Barons. Again, enemies that must be killed in one way.

 

What I think is what could be annoying is not just the fact that you have to wait until a specific moment, but the constant addition of enemies that must be killed in one way. So, if in the main campaign it is way more common to kill anyone with any gun, reaching TAG2 you're gonna have many enemies to be killed in a specific way. 

 

Another problem that I see is the big gap between the efficient way to kill a demon and doing it in a brutal style. Yeah, you can kill Armored Barons and Stone Imps just spamming, but it's ridiculous the amount of weapon and time that you have to waste to do so.

 

Not to mention all the “basic” enemies all had weak spots too!

 

From memory it’s basically only imps, shotgunners and gargoyles that you can just shoot at till they die! Everything else requires traffic lights, weak spots or a certain weapon to kill (efficiently).

 

Eternal was a twitch shooter before but became genuinely physically tiring in the DLC’s for me :-P

[Castle Dreadful]

Dark Lord shouldn't have been a reactionary boss but I don't have a problem with the Marauders and Gladiator.

 

My big issue is the introduction of enemies that require one specific method of killing them. Stone imps, spirits, and to a lesser extent riot soldiers and cursed prowler. Spirits especially. Immune to falter and freeze, and you must use the microwave to kill the ghost form.

 

They couldn't find a way to balance lesser mods so they force you to use them in the laziest design they could find. It disturbs the gameplay loop, in my opinion. Especially on console where I play. I gotta either memorize the spawns and have the weapon on queue, or fumble around with the weapon wheel mid combat and then fumble around with mod switching.

 

And the spirit being arbitrarily resistant to certain weapons on top of it is just lazy ass design.

[Bauul]

I enjoyed Doom Eternal, but I would be lying if I said I didn't start to find the constant required juggling of abilities, weapons, timing and prioritization rather draining by the end.

 

While I get what they were going for, I do find myself wondering if it all would have been more fun if all weapons were equally damaging at all times to all enemies, so you could just run around blasting stuff and not worry about all the little micro hoops the original game has you jumping through.

[Job]

I don't mind reactionary enemies, as long as the window is reasonable. Problem is, you're always reacting, so by the time you've finished dealing with other enemies, you'll see that window open and close out of the corner of your periphery. Annoying.

[Taurus Daggerknight]

I don't think they should have removed every single "gimmick" enemy  like the Marauder. I just wish they hadn't gone so damn overboard with them by the end of TAG 2. 

 

Stone Imp REQUIRING an auto-shotgun kill was insanely dumb IMO, and didn't add to any real challenge. 

Cursed Prowler was likewise a bit pointless. 

 

Screw that final boss, which is the short version of the ocean of hate I've already expressed for him. 

 

Gladiator? Eh, maybe. I guess it wasn't a big deal, but I also didn't think that fight was great. 

 

I did not mind the Armored Baron, who seemed to react to being shot at the very least, so you had OPTIONS with how to tackle him. Biggest issue with him was the aesthetic, which isn't the point here. 

 

 

All in all ; I think the "reactionary" enemies needed to be better balanced to not simply REQUIRE you to fight them the one way, so much as have an optimal way. 

 

[whatup876]

I guess it's just a matter of how many times can you use a certain concept on enemies, because i thought there were some ideas used across multiple enemy types.

Something i think was underused was a true second phase like the Doom Hunter dropping his sled. (that would probably require more work, if you planned to make models and behaviours feel more different, if it's not the same as shooting down an Arachnotron's turret)

 

I also think there weren't enough new attacks in TAG 2 with one of the few exceptions being the Cursed Prowler's poison effect.

The "use this weapon only" problem can be also be the case, when you realize certain enemies' actual attacks don't feel that different or unique from some others.

But i guess focusing a bit more on how an enemy attacks you is harder than their weaknesses.

I also haven't seen the Hell Guard's attacks from 2016 reused for a new enemy too.

Like the spinning fire one and the arcing/boomering-ish spear shooting projectiles.

 

If they make another expansions that isn't limited by the season pass contract, they could have more time with designing enemies.

[Azuris]

10 hours ago, Yurax said:

I like Marauder. Among hordes of mindless beasts, he is only one sentient and experienced combatant. It is supposed to be memorable battle with them. He is rarely backed by mob and rarely fought in pair. Armored Baron is great, even he looks great and only one i hate is blood maykr.

But i agree, that cartoony red-green switch is weird, like from some arcade. How else to archieve this?

Being a dev, i make Marauder vulnerable to BFG. Not for me, but for the complainers just to waste their BFG shot.

 

I agree, like the Maraudeur, hate speed slowing Enemies that only can be killed in one specific Way (so Blood Maykr and Cursed Prawler)

[SiMpLeToNiUm]

Plenty of bosses or tough enemies across genres require you to fight them in certain ways. I wouldn't say that "forcing" the player to fight an enemy as intended is necessarily a bad thing.

Edited March 31, 2021 by SiMpLeToNiUm

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

Removal? No.
Making them more rare? Yes.

[TheRedTide]

Yes, absolutely. The Marauder is an exemple of piss-poor gameplay design and someone ought to have been punched in the balls for coming up with something so irritating as him (looking at you Hugo). The fact that TAG2 allows us to stun him with the hammer is further evidence to my theory that the overwhelming majority of players were at one point filtered by him (before learning how to cheese him) and Id needed to rectify that. Also, restricting what kind of weapon you're supposed to use or not against an enemy in combat is one of the reasons Id should knock Hugo down a peg or two and stop allowing him so much unsupervised leeway over the game, since both Marauder and the Spirit were his ideas. If I can't defeat an enemy by just unloading firepower on it, then it should have no place on Doom. Also the bing bing wahoo platforming needs to fucking go. The platforming in Doom 2016 was far more organic and properly incorporated into the art of the level and the flow of gameplay than in Doom 2016.

Edited April 2, 2021 by TheRedTide

[Hunting4r2d2]

11 minutes ago, TheRedTide said:

Also, restricting what kind of weapon you're supposed to use or not against an enemy in combat is one of the reasons Id should knock Hugo down a peg or two and stop allowing him so much unsupervised leeway over the game, since both Marauder and the Spirit were his ideas.

You realize the entire team at ID designs these enemies, not just Hugo. 

[TheRedTide]

1 hour ago, Hunting4r2d2 said:

You realize the entire team at ID designs these enemies, not just Hugo. 

As the Game Director Hugo was the main driving force behind making Eternal more difficult than Doom 2016 and falling for the meme that "harder is better" parroted by the Dark-souls crowd of sweaty tryhards. Go to the Doom group on Facebook and ask around, they'll corroborate my words.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

1 hour ago, Hunting4r2d2 said:

You realize the entire team at ID designs these enemies, not just Hugo. 

Hugo is the director. It's literally his job to guide the team and decide how the game should look/play. Any final design of a level or an enemy must go through him. Not to mention how he literally memes about people angry about the Marauder all the time, so yeah, I believe he has a point.

 

13 minutes ago, TheRedTide said:

As the Game Director Hugo was the main driving force behind making Eternal more difficult than Doom 2016 and falling for the meme that "harder is better" parroted by the Dark-souls crowd of sweaty tryhards. Go to the Doom group on Facebook and ask around, they'll corroborate my words.

The fun thing is that Doom Eternal is nothing like Dark Souls. Dark Souls is good because it's hard but it gives the player freedom to engage the hard challenges of the game how you want, and if you are good enough, you can play the entire game naked and carrying just a stick of wood and beat the Lord of Cinder like that and absolutely humiliate the game because you became that good.
The moment a game adds enemies that can only be beaten in one way, using one tactic, and one weapon, it can no longer be considered a Souls-like game.

Dark Souls fans hates having people that completely misses the point of Dark Souls comparing anything to Dark Souls, and Doom Eternal is one of these games.
Blame Game Journalists™ that calls everything they have to struggle a little as "The Dark Souls of (this genre/thing/food/clothing/pets/tv series/literally anything)".

Edited April 2, 2021 by Sergeant_Mark_IV

[HOUSE]

I think only Marauder and Gladiator are good. Since then, there are too many same enemies, whether it is an game engine problem or a problem of creativity.

[Caffeine Freak]

6 hours ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

The moment a game adds enemies that can only be beaten in one way, using one tactic, and one weapon, it can no longer be considered a Souls-like game.

 

I'll grant that the Spirit and the Cursed Prowler, whom you have to kill with a Microwave Beam and Blood Punch respectively, are valid examples of this. The Marauder is not. There's videos of people killing him in tons of ways that involve virtually every weapon and weapon mod in the game. You don't even have to wait until his eyes flash to hurt him, you can falter him with Grenades, Remote Det Rockets, or freaking Microwave Beam his dog as many times as you want, and hit him when the beam explosion causes the Marauder to falter. 

 

Once you understand the faltering system of Doom Eternal, the Marauder becomes a freaking joke. I won't defend the Cursed Prowler; it's a bullshit addition. But anyone who doesn't know how to deal with the Marauder at this point, (or thinks there is only one way to kill him) has never seriously investigated the matter.

 

@Taurus Daggerknight You don't have to use the Full Auto mod to kill the Stone Imp. Afaik, he's not actually immune to any weapon, and is really vulnerable to the Unmakyr, Chaingun Shield, Micromissiles, and maybe a few others I'm not aware of.

 

In any case, I don't think reactionary enemies should be removed, but I would like to see them... reworked somehow. For tactical reasons, I understand why the designers would make the green flash and sound effect telegraph identical for all such enemies: once that visual and audio combo gets ingrained into the player, his Pavlovian response is to shoot. They probably figured, why add another layer of complexity by giving all these enemies different audio/visual cues? 

 

The problem is, even if it's an efficient way to communicate vulnerability, at the same time, it's just not very interesting when spread across more than a couple enemy types. I'd be fine with this design for the Marauder and maybe one or two other enemies at most. Beyond that, it becomes a little repetitive. 

 

The Armored Baron is a good example of this. He telegraphs his vulnerability in a very obvious way, and his attack isn't very interesting or difficult to deal with. And once you break apart his suit, he's just an ordinary Baron. In concept, he's a cool character, but I think it could have been executed better. I don't think he even needed a vulnerability window---just make a small part of his suit that is always vulnerable to a particular type of attack, and put it in a less obvious location. You hit that part with a precision weapon, boom, suit destroyed. And/or, make it possible for the player to destroy his suit with a great deal of firepower of any type. I appreciate that you can explode his suit with Plasma, and I'm fine with enemies having special vulnerabilities to specific weapons, but with him I just don't see it as a valuable trait. On that note, I don't think a full body shield is generally a good addition for enemies in Eternal.

 

I don't see any real reason, for instance, for the Blood Makyr to have a shield that only lowers when he attacks. I've said this before, but his attacks are somewhat counterbalanced by his generally slow movement, and the fact that he's almost perfectly still when vulnerable. I think speeding him up a bit, whilst removing his shield, or perhaps making it vulnerable to concentrated Plasma attacks, would be a worthwhile compromise. Other than that, he could stay exactly as he is, imo.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Caffeine Freak

[Doom-X-Machina]

The only thing I dont like about the Marauder is the dog/wolf/poochie... seriously, that thing is SOOOOOOO FUCKING STUPID!!

 

[NeoWorm]

Spirit, cursed prowler, stone imp should be straigh up scrapped. Or better never ever put in the game in the first place. Forcing player to use one singular way to dispatch them is pinnacle of bad design. Spirit especially since it effectively removed plasme rifle from weapon rotation because not having plasma with microwave ready means long protracted boring combat.

Marauder is bad too because even if there are other methods to kill him, none are viable except the one ssg ballista combo. It needs alternate ways to fight him. Funny thing that some people complain that he is actually too easy. He is not, he is just completely predictable and once you learn how to fight him, fighting him becomes chore more than challenge. On top of that there is massive discrepancy between his visual design and his ingame behaviour. He pulls his shield from his ass without even a hint in his visual design, he uses shotgun in short range and axe in long range... it's all backwards. They obviously came up with it's look first and than struggled to make him engaging enemy. And failed.

What is in similar vein and I completely hate it is cacodemon vulnerability to granades. It's just dead easy optimal way to kill caco at any point, you just have to watch the stipid animation every time.

[Caffeine Freak]

12 hours ago, NeoWorm said:

Marauder is bad too because even if there are other methods to kill him, none are viable except the one ssg ballista combo.

 

No, that's just the most basic way to kill him. Since people keep repeating this, I'm just gonna leave these here, for all the people in this thread who claim there's only one way to kill the Marauder, and everyone else who might come here to say the same. This is just a sample of the videos out there. Some of the other tutorials pertain to higher skill levels. 

 

Here's a selection of combo attacks involving different weapons and weapon mods:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQZOhG4G-wg&ab_channel=RK

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWd_6kllmtk&ab_channel=T0yOta

 

And if quick-swapping weapons isn't really your thing, here's a method to delete him using the Chaingun Turret:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9gv3tH4__c&ab_channel=Sylar

 

And in case you're feeling a bit troll-ish, I saved the best for last---shove him until he falls over and dies: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veUvi9rUreM&ab_channel=bluekila

 

There's plenty of other methods out there, revolving around other mods (Sticky Bombs, Plasma Heat Blast, Precision Bolt, Remote Det Rockets and Microwave Beam), with handy video guides for each. Go look them up if you care to. Not to mention how easy it is to Bloodpunch him after knocking him out of his swing.

 

Again, there are enemies (such as the Cursed Prowler) that are stupidly restrictive in the weapons you can use against them. The Marauder is not one of those enemies. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Caffeine Freak

[Rytrik]

@Caffeine Freak Excellent post. Sylar's videos are fantastic. He's perfected the art of marauder bullying.

 

He's even made the marauder dance for him

[oCrapaCreeper]

As shown above, the Marauder can be killed in so many different ways, even without waiting for his eyes, he's by far the least problematic of the bunch. I mean, the freaking chaingun shield can kill him.

 

Armored Baron is fine since the skill shot is not hard to shoot and you have an easy way to kill him without the skill shot.

 

Blood Maykr is just barely tolerable on nightmare after the slight nerf recently, though they can at least still be killed without headshots and can even be chainsawed, as long as their shield is down. Plus the Microwave beam trick is neat too.

 

Cursed Prowler can can go drown in purple goo. Either give me a guaranteed blood punch when I get cursed, give the dashing back, or both. Having your screen blocked with green and having a DOT on you is bad enough as it is.

 

The bosses that have it are bosses; so different context needs to be considered. Davoth is just tedious IMO.

Edited April 4, 2021 by oCrapaCreeper

[Hunting4r2d2]

On 4/2/2021 at 12:12 AM, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Hugo is the director. It's literally his job to guide the team and decide how the game should look/play. Any final design of a level or an enemy must go through him.

 

On 4/2/2021 at 12:01 AM, TheRedTide said:

As the Game Director Hugo was the main driving force behind making Eternal more difficult than Doom 2016 and falling for the meme that "harder is better" parroted by the Dark-souls crowd of sweaty tryhards. Go to the Doom group on Facebook and ask around, they'll corroborate my words.

 

I am very well aware of Hugo's role, but not every idea present in Eternal comes from him. ID software is a relatively small and intimate team compared to most AAA developers, as is evident in the "whiteboard sessions" where multiple developers discuss potential features to implement in the game. For example, in one of the developer play through streams, Hugo mentioned that the main idea behind the Screecher came from a developer who wanted to make an enemy you did not want to kill. My main issue is people contributing all the things they dislike or like to solely Hugo Martin, and that simply think that removing him as game director will fix all of their problems with the game. Yes, Hugo does have a lot of influence on the final product, but a lot of ideas originate from other developers, and the overall team has to be satisfied with the game.

 

On 4/2/2021 at 12:12 AM, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Hugo is the director. It's literally his job to guide the team and decide how the game should look/play. Any final design of a level or an enemy must go through him. Not to mention how he literally memes about people angry about the Marauder all the time, so yeah, I believe he has a point.

 

The fun thing is that Doom Eternal is nothing like Dark Souls. Dark Souls is good because it's hard but it gives the player freedom to engage the hard challenges of the game how you want, and if you are good enough, you can play the entire game naked and carrying just a stick of wood and beat the Lord of Cinder like that and absolutely humiliate the game because you became that good.
The moment a game adds enemies that can only be beaten in one way, using one tactic, and one weapon, it can no longer be considered a Souls-like game.

Dark Souls fans hates having people that completely misses the point of Dark Souls comparing anything to Dark Souls, and Doom Eternal is one of these games.
Blame Game Journalists™ that calls everything they have to struggle a little as "The Dark Souls of (this genre/thing/food/clothing/pets/tv series/literally anything)".

 

As a Dark Souls and Doom fan I 100% agree. Though even that series had enemies that can be killed through a singular mean.

[NeoWorm]

14 hours ago, Caffeine Freak said:

 

No, that's just the most basic way to kill him. Since people keep repeating this, I'm just gonna leave these here, for all the people in this thread who claim there's only one way to kill the Marauder, and everyone else who might come here to say the same. This is just a sample of the videos out there. Some of the other tutorials pertain to higher skill levels. 

 

Here's a selection of combo attacks involving different weapons and weapon mods:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQZOhG4G-wg&ab_channel=RK

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWd_6kllmtk&ab_channel=T0yOta

 

And if quick-swapping weapons isn't really your thing, here's a method to delete him using the Chaingun Turret:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9gv3tH4__c&ab_channel=Sylar

 

And in case you're feeling a bit troll-ish, I saved the best for last---shove him until he falls over and dies: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veUvi9rUreM&ab_channel=bluekila

Every single video shows hitting him when he flashes green, the guy just does it really fast. Yeah, you can unload on him with different weapons than just shotgun and balista, but the combat scenario is always the same. I forces you to get to exact place and time and than you can kill him. There is no way to bait him in any way, there is no way to manipulate him, you just have to get in his face and unload on him when he lets you. You didn't proved anything.
There were ways to bait him with I think it was remote det rocket and ice bomb that forced him to turn away with shield up so you could shoot him. They were patched out because Hugo hates players not playing like he wants. This monster is just stupid and bad, you can't change my mind with arguments like these.

[jazzmaster9]

Its either the Marauder is for a player or it isn't. There are just some monsters that will not be conducive to ones playstyle. for me its Group Bosses and one shot attacks, it's not really bad design just not for me.

 

The fact that he isn't as universally hated as Cursed Prowlers and Blood Makyrs tells me there is something good about the marauder's design. I quite like him myself.

Edited April 4, 2021 by jazzmaster9

[NeoWorm]

2 minutes ago, jazzmaster9 said:

The fact that he isn't as universally hated as Cursed Prowlers and Blood Makyrs tells me there is something good about the marauder's design. I quite like him myself.

He is not universally hated, because he can be cheesed in seconds once you know how and it feels kinda good that you can do it. But that doesn't mean he is not limited to singular combat scenario that gets old real fast if you don't enjoy the weapon switching wankery.