DOOM 2 Expansion?

[Sopas]

After beating DOOM 2 and DOOM 1 more than 9 times, i think im qualified enough (not to be egotistical) to say that DOOM 2 just feels like an expansion to DOOM 1, of course that is just me ; But it just feels like a WAD pack and custom enemies, the revenant fucking rucks though

[continuum.mid]

I agree, and I think a lot of people would. Likewise, Final Doom is definitely a standalone expansion for Doom II.

 

A good comparison would be Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels (or Japanese Super Mario Bros. 2) - the mechanics are fundamentally identical, with a few minor additions (poison mushrooms), but the levels are harder.

[Jiggahertz]

I don't feel like it's an expansion at all

[Sopas]

SMBTLL is good example of this, yes. Though of course that doesnt mean Doom 2 IS a bad game

[continuum.mid]

28 minutes ago, Stack_Tone said:

SMBTLL is good example of this, yes. Though of course that doesnt mean Doom 2 IS a bad game

Yep, Doom 2 has better level design on average IMO and the new monsters definitely add depth to the gameplay (which was probably better realized by Final Doom and community WADs).

[deleted.]

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Edited June 12, 2022 by a.a.i.

[Dark Pulse]

1 hour ago, Stack_Tone said:

After beating DOOM 2 and DOOM 1 more than 9 times, i think im qualified enough (not to be egotistical) to say that DOOM 2 just feels like an expansion to DOOM 1, of course that is just me ; But it just feels like a WAD pack and custom enemies, the revenant fucking rucks though

"I'd leave: this is just more monsters and levels. What a load."

 

-- In-Dev Quit Message

[Juza]

Subpar levels, but, amazing new enemies (that it barely used to a great extent) and an amazing new gun. But the internal mechanisms are pretty much identical, they didn't bother to increase or fix any limitations since Doom 1... disappointing imo. It does feel like just an expansion 

[Final Verdict]

 

It's not expansion as it has a new roster of enemies, a new weapon and 32 new maps. The gameplay alone is changed significantly by the Super Shotgun, to say nothing of the new additions to the roster. 

 

Also it's called Doom II. There is a number in the title, signifying it is a sequel. Final Doom was more of an expansion pack. Doom II was a sequel. I know what you mean though, when it came out back in the 90's I thought the same thing. It took awhile before I classified it as a sequel.

 

So don't worry, I'm not that comfortable on my high-horse. Better to call it a crippled shetland pony suffering from parkinson's disease (it's shaky). It can barely support me. But I'll take it.

 

What I'm saying is you could argue it either way, I just happen to be in the "it's a sequel" camp. 

 

[Doomkid]

I’ve always been sorta torn on this, but by the logic that a new gun, a new power-up, double the enemy roster, new textures and 32 new maps is not enough to constitute a sequel, then going by that logic every oldschool Super Mario platformer was just an expansion of the one that came before.

 

To say that Super Mario World is just an expansion of SMB3 since they share a lot of items, enemies, design concepts and were built on the same engine doesn’t seem right to me. It would be a double standard if I didn’t also apply that logic to Doom and Doom 2.

 

Plus, it runs on it’s own - isn’t that a disqualifier? Most expansions require the base game. The Ultimate Doom is a good example, being an expansion on plain old Registered Doom.

[Maes]

There are far more "qualified" Doom sequels, as far as the "expansion" title goes. Final Doom as a mere expansion to Doom II? Sure, no debate. Ultimate Doom to Doom? I mean, c'mon, it's literally just a 4th episode tacked-on the original three.

 

But Doom 2 to Doom... sure, the engine was the same, but it also was enough of its own thing and added a lot of things that you simply couldn't do with just a mod to the original Doom, not even with Dehacked. You could say it was first and foremost an engine expansion (although minor, and then Ultimate Doom v1.9 used the same engine anyway...), with its own episode (or lack thereof) format.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Maes

[OpenRift]

I think this idea of Doom II being more of an expansion to Doom 1 comes from the modern expectation of game sequels having a complete asset overhaul with various gameplay changes to existing mechanics. id Software at that point already had a history of reusing assets in their sequels even before Doom (see Spear of Destiny). What id did with sequels is instead of changing the existing formula, they would add to it. The best way to think about this is think about how Doom 1 PWADs compare to Doom II PWADs. They have a significantly different way of playing, all just from the addition of more enemies and a super shotgun. Doom 1's weapons have a more linear hierarchy while Doom II has what can best be described as "pillar weapons" (SSG, Rocket, Plasma), weapons that are relatively the same in power, which allows for the tougher enemies/higher enemy counts and more possibilities in terms of challenge.

[OpenRift]

7 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I’ve always been sorta torn on this, but by the logic that a new gun, a new power-up, double the enemy roster, new textures and 32 new maps is not enough to constitute a sequel, then going by that logic every oldschool Super Mario platformer was just an expansion of the one that came before.

 

To say that Super Mario World is just an expansion of SMB3 since they share a lot of items, enemies, design concepts and were built on the same engine doesn’t seem right to me. It would be a double standard if I didn’t also apply that logic to Doom and Doom 2.

 

Plus, it runs on it’s own - isn’t that a disqualifier? Most expansions require the base game. The Ultimate Doom is a good example, being an expansion on plain old Registered Doom.

Well Final Doom didn't require Doom II, and that is definitely an expansion, because they're essentially just new levels and textures.

[Maes]

Heh can you imagine if for Final Doom you just got one big PWAD or -worse- a bunch of PWADs for the levels and maybe a texture pack? Well, technically speaking, you could -the only thing that really wouldn't change would be the intermission texts, but that'd make the whole thing feel (even more) half-assed.

 

That actually did happen with the Master Levels, and almost happened with the patch to TNT's infamous MAP31 -just a PWAD, not a proper patch to the IWAD.

 

For Final Doom I think there were a couple of actual, even if very minor internal engine changes -one had to do with setting the z coordinate after teleporting and maybe adding an extra animated texture.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Maes

[Egg Boy]

In an age where I can get both titles for 5 dollars, or under when they're on sale, this sort of question isn't really important to me. Would I say its technically a standalone expansion? Sure, but its a really damn good one.

[alLAN95th]

I disagree.. This would be like saying Megaman 1-6 are all add-ons and expansions to each other just because there's different stages, weapons, and music. It makes zero sense when you truly think about it, because there are far more sequels, even entire game series, out there that all feel very similar to their first game. So if you think Doom II is little more than an expansion you'd have to think all of these games aren't true sequels either.

 

PS... Doom II was a retail release. Doom was not until The Ultimate Doom released. You had to order Doom to get the full game when it first came out.

Edited April 13, 2023 by alLAN95th

[omx32x]

doom 2 is a sequel thats for sure but it could also easily be an expension to doom 1 in a different universe since the games change very little (i dont know if i am alone on this but when i say that doom is my favorite game i am talking about both doom 1 and doom 2 since they are so similar)