Doom 64 Bethesda Port vs Doom 64 Retribution in GZDoom

[QuaketallicA]

The official re-release pales imo compared to the Retribution recreation mod. Nevermind the improved/remastered sprites in the mod, just having access to the GZDoom features (e.g. tonemap, proper fullscreen not "borderless", upscaling, texture filtering that works for weapon sprites, etc.) already puts it a step up. And of course no Bethesda account sign in or needless intro screens.

 

Only thing I found better in the official port is controller support out of the box, but even then it doesn't come with turn acceleration or sprint (only toggle autorun?) so the controls aren't great. I pity those suckered into paying money for this inferior port of something that's been around for free for a while. (I downloaded it from my Xbox Game Pass Trial to test it out)

[Edward850]

4 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

And of course no Bethesda account sign in

You don't need to sign in, you can click cancel and it won't ask again.

4 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

needless intro screens.

-skipmovies

4 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

sprint (only toggle autorun?)

It absolutely does have a sprint action.

 

Also, one thing retribution doesn't have; accuracy. it's a recreation. It's not accurate to Doom64 gameplay given it's forced to run in different engine timings (Doom64 is 30hz, GZDoom is 35hz) among other potential differences. Doom64 however is literally Doom64 without question.

You also miss out on Kaiser original levels.

Edit: Retribution also missing the N64 three point filtering, which the art was originally designed for.

 

It also actually supports the people who made the port, rather then just being a sprite rip because someone arbitrarily decided it was free. :P

Edited April 3, 2021 by Edward850

[Rudolph]

I much prefer Retribution for the quality-of-life improvements it brings to the game and the fact that it runs on GZDoom, but I am so glad that Doom 64 (2021) exists too: it is good to be able to legally play the game on PC... even if Bethesda reportedly will not allow Kaiser to further work on it.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Rudolph

[Edward850]

5 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

even if Bethesda reportedly will not allow Kaiser to further work on it.

"Not allow" is not the right phrase. But there just isn't anything significant worth updating at this time (significant being anything the average user would notice/encounter 100% of the time, not us grognards on a niche community forum. :V).

Edited April 3, 2021 by Edward850

[LexiMax]

I think that the disclaimer on the ModDB page of Doom 64: Retribution sums it up perfectly.

 

Quote

DISCLAIMER: This project will NEVER be completely faithful or accurate to the original game. If you absolutely must have accuracy, use Doom 64 EX instead.

 

When I play Doom 64 EX or the new Doom 64 port, I feel like I'm playing an authentic version of Doom 64 with a mouse or modern gamepad controls, and it was always my first resort for when I was in the mood for playing Doom 64.  On the other hand, I've never really played a GZDoom recreation of the game that didn't make me wish I was either playing Doom 64 EX or standard modded Doom.

Edited April 3, 2021 by AlexMax

[P41R47]

This is another one of those thread were people just spoke up their opinion on how the port they choose is better because of some feature.

 

Come on, guy!

Not only you are not being innovative, you are just being an ass at comparing or saying something is better just because you like it more.

 

The only thing that is better is playing the way you like it, so, do you really need to spit to other people choice just because you like your choice more?

Grow up!

 

[omx32x]

honestely i dont understand these comments

its like people wanting decorate on the unity port to play "something as simple as brutal doom" in it

if you want gzdoom features then go play gzdoom the official ports should always try to have more vanilla compatible behavior with some quality of life features that dont mess with that (like higher resolutions, uncapped, etc,)

Edited April 3, 2021 by omalefico32x
typo

[jazzmaster9]

1 hour ago, QuaketallicA said:

I pity those suckered into paying money for this inferior port of something that's been around for free for a while. 

But it wasn't though, There has never been a free option of an Accurate Doom 64 port until Doom 64 Remaster. So this is just objectively false. There's not even a debate here.

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by jazzmaster9

[Eric Claus]

47 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

This is another one of those thread were people just spoke up their opinion on how the port they choose is better because of some feature.

 

Come on, guy!

Not only you are not being innovative, you are just being an ass at comparing or saying something is better just because you like it more.

 

The only thing that is better is playing the way you like it, so, do you really need to spit to other people choice just because you like your choice more?

Grow up!

 

 

No kidding, the OP reads like a submission to the "hot take" Olympics.  Clearly I am a sucker for getting Doom 64 on my Eternal pre-order or *gasp* spend $10 on a quality port that made Doom 64 easily playable with a completely original feel and not much tweaking I have to do  with an officially released and backed IWAD I can just copy and paste into a different port if I desire, and GOD FORBID I support efforts I like with money.  Bethesdabad amirite?  This is the kind of stuff that really rubs me the wrong way I am a big believer of to each their own and to each their style as we are given support by people who could have just simply done something else with their time.  Hell, we were never owed an official port of Doom 64 and yet they had Nightdive go ahead and that's worth plenty of money to me.  Would I like to see maybe a few other features here or there? Of course! But I am happy to get what we have already which is honestly quite a bit.

[omx32x]

off topic but this tread has made me want to play doom64 again and finish once and for all

does anyone know if we lose the demon keys when we die?

[Eric Claus]

10 minutes ago, omalefico32x said:

off topic but this tread has made me want to play doom64 again and finish once and for all

does anyone know if we lose the demon keys when we die?

 

You do not.

 

Edit: I stand corrected

Edited April 3, 2021 by Eric Claus
correction

[omx32x]

2 minutes ago, Eric Claus said:

 

You do not.

oh thats a shame i like to lose my weapons when i die i feel like thats a good punishment

well thanks im already at level 3

[Edward850]

9 minutes ago, omalefico32x said:

does anyone know if we lose the demon keys when we die?

Indeed you do lose them. However they are kept in passwords and saved games of course.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Edward850

[Eric Claus]

1 minute ago, Edward850 said:

Indeed you do lose them. However they are kept in passwords and saved games of course.

 

Ah well today I learned I thought it was just something persistent.

[ZeroTheEro]

3 hours ago, QuaketallicA said:

The official re-release pales imo compared to the Retribution recreation mod. Nevermind the improved/remastered sprites in the mod, just having access to the GZDoom features (e.g. tonemap, proper fullscreen not "borderless", upscaling, texture filtering that works for weapon sprites, etc.) already puts it a step up. And of course no Bethesda account sign in or needless intro screens.

 

Only thing I found better in the official port is controller support out of the box, but even then it doesn't come with turn acceleration or sprint (only toggle autorun?) so the controls aren't great. I pity those suckered into paying money for this inferior port of something that's been around for free for a while. (I downloaded it from my Xbox Game Pass Trial to test it out)

Right. So is Retribution playable on consoles? I don't think so.

 

[Muusi]

The Bethesda rerelease is _way_ better than Retribution. I played a ton of Doom 64 on an N64 at a friends house back in the day so i can confidently say that the official port is very accurate. Retribution is more like it's own thing and while there's nothing wrong with that, i'd still rather play the official version. Also a huge plus that it got released for consoles, and the biggest thing of all, the official rerelease supports RUMBLE! No GZDoom mod can compete with that.

 

I also have to mention that the filters and upscaling etc might be considered as a negative by some people. They absolutely should be turned off by default as some people might not know exactly how to turn them off as you need to navigate deep into the labyrinth of settings to do it.

 

I must be a massive idiot for buying the thing for 2 different systems...

Edited April 3, 2021 by Muusi

[Edward850]

7 minutes ago, Muusi said:

I also have to mention that the filters and upscaling etc might be considered as a negative by some people.

Granted Doom64 is made with filtering in mind. Though that's another detail, it's made for the N64's 3 point filter, which the 2020 port has but GZDoom does not.

[Muusi]

1 minute ago, Edward850 said:

Granted Doom64 is made with filtering in mind. Though that's another detail, it's made for the N64's 3 point filter, which the 2020 port has but GZDoom does not.

Well yeah the N64 had filtering too, which is a huge negative and to my knowledge, it was done in hardware, not software that you could just turn off with hacking. The thing didn't even do RGB video even though the SNES had it. Fuck the N64🤣

[Dark Pulse]

1 hour ago, Muusi said:

Well yeah the N64 had filtering too, which is a huge negative and to my knowledge, it was done in hardware, not software that you could just turn off with hacking. The thing didn't even do RGB video even though the SNES had it. Fuck the N64🤣

Modified versions of the game, based off reversed Doom 64 source code, actually let you disable the filtering if you so choose.

 

See some of the extra options in this video (which was recorded off an N64).

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Dark Pulse

[Muusi]

23 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

Modified versions of the game, based off reversed Doom 64 source code, actually let you disable the filtering if you so choose.

 

See some of the extra options in this video (which was recorded off an N64).

 

Damn that's impressive. Now the only thing holding it back is the N64's crappy S-video.

[Dark Pulse]

51 minutes ago, Muusi said:

Damn that's impressive. Now the only thing holding it back is the N64's crappy S-video.

I wouldn't exactly call S-Video crappy, but well, to get anything better you'd need extensive modding of the console to enable HDMI.

 

 

The TL;DW version is: The cable-based ones are crap, and the UltraHDMI is basically the gold standard, but you'd either better be VERY skilled with a soldering iron, or be prepared to pay several hundred dollars for the privilege of having an installer do the work for you.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Dark Pulse

[Muusi]

15 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

I wouldn't exactly call S-Video crappy, but well, to get anything better you'd need extensive modding of the console to enable HDMI.

 

 

I'd go for analog RGB instead so you can still use a CRT🤔 S-video looks crappy to us pampered eurotrash as we've always had RGB on our TV's and consoles🤣

[Rudolph]

11 hours ago, Edward850 said:

"Not allow" is not the right phrase. But there just isn't anything significant worth updating at this time (significant being anything the average user would notice/encounter 100% of the time, not us grognards on a niche community forum. :V).

Well, Kaiser requires Bethesda's permission to release new patches, right?

[Gez]

Releasing patches on consoles is a significant investment IIRC, given that the console manufacturers want to make the patch go through their own QA and other checks, and they don't do that for free, so you have to pay them to update your game.

 

Note also that it's professional work. If Kaiser works on a Doom 64 update, he's not working on other projects for Night Dive.

[Rudolph]

3 hours ago, Gez said:

Releasing patches on consoles is a significant investment IIRC, given that the console manufacturers want to make the patch go through their own QA and other checks, and they don't do that for free, so you have to pay them to update your game.

 

Note also that it's professional work. If Kaiser works on a Doom 64 update, he's not working on other projects for Night Dive.

I only brought this up because I remember seeing Kaiser himself lament the fact that Bethesda will not allow him to further work on Doom 64.

 

I get that consoles make things a lot more complicated, but it still kind of sucks and that is another reason why I prefer Retribution.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Rudolph

[Edward850]

4 hours ago, Gez said:

Releasing patches on consoles is a significant investment IIRC, given that the console manufacturers want to make the patch go through their own QA and other checks, and they don't do that for free, so you have to pay them to update your game. 

That actually stopped being a thing by the Xbox One and PS4, probably because they found that games were only getting updates on PC towards the end of the 360/PS3 era.

However most studios have their own QA process before it'll even reach platform submission which will still not only cost for work hours, but also time which will suddenly be pulled away from other titles.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Edward850

[Devalaous]

10 hours ago, Edward850 said:

That actually stopped being a thing by the Xbox One and PS4, probably because they found that games were only getting updates on PC towards the end of the 360/PS3 era.

However most studios have their own QA process before it'll even reach platform submission which will still not only cost for work hours, but also time which will suddenly be pulled away from other titles.

 

Yes, it was revealed that at least one of the consoles at the time (Xbox 360 I believe) charged an insane 40,000 USD for a single patch on the service, and if the certification failed, they had to pay another 40k to resubmit it. Now, I dont know what they were hoping to achieve with something like that, which only sounds amazingly greedy, but it had the effect of crippling smaller studios and a lot of things went unfixed because the developers just couldn't afford 40k with the risk of it blowing up into 80k, 120k etc, for a patch that on PC would be free and easy. When I worked for Relogic on Terraria, I was kind of surprised just how simple and quick the launch of the giant 1.3 update was that I'd been working a year on near tirelessly day in and day out, given all the horror stories I'd heard about patching console games.

[Nevander]

On 4/2/2021 at 9:41 PM, QuaketallicA said:

The official re-release pales imo compared to the Retribution recreation mod. Nevermind the improved/remastered sprites in the mod, just having access to the GZDoom features (e.g. tonemap, proper fullscreen not "borderless", upscaling, texture filtering that works for weapon sprites, etc.) already puts it a step up. And of course no Bethesda account sign in or needless intro screens.

 

On 4/2/2021 at 10:08 PM, Rudolph said:

I much prefer Retribution for the quality-of-life improvements it brings to the game and the fact that it runs on GZDoom

Thanks guys. Means a lot. Really another one of the biggest reasons I made it was for that exact purpose: having a version of Doom 64 on a heavily customizable port with all the features of it available to you.

[Rudolph]

Although as I mentioned a while back in another thread, the combination of playing Retribution and Doom 64 (2021) is what got me to finally discover the secret Plasma Rifle in MAP12: Altar of Pain! :P

[LexiMax]

4 hours ago, Nevander said:

Thanks guys. Means a lot.

 

To be clear, I wasn't trying to pooh-pooh the work you put into the port, I just prefer a more authentic experience when I play Doom 64.  That's just me.

 

However I'll be honest, I was also pretty irritated at the OP, who called people who actually paid for the new port "suckers", and frankly he can kick rocks for that take.  Doom 64 EX was also labor of love, just like your conversion, and the 2021 re-release is like a better version of that port, and more importantly is more accessible to the average gamer.  Just because somebody has to actually pay for it and it doesn't have 100% of the features of GZDoom doesn't mean it's a scam.