What if Classic DOOM gets forgotten..?

[Jello]

24 minutes ago, SlayerOGames666 said:

Sorry for causing a small stir with this whole "what if x gets forgotten" shtick. Like I said with my last post, I was having a conversation with my mates about doom and one of them brought up the vague thought of how "it's probably gonna get forgotten as the new doom games get more popular". I told him that it's probably never going to happen and how classic doom's modding capabilities outshine EVERYTHING nuDoom does, and it'll never go away like poof, but he ended up firing back with "but classic doom has shit graphics and boring music you retard, ever played DOOM Eternal?". Everyone else in the friend group seemed to side with the nuDoom player.

Sounds like you need new friends.

 

Half sarcastic.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Jello

[Gez]

The thing about Classic Doom is that, at this point, Classic Doom is no longer just the original IWADs -- it's the nearly three decades of community-created content. Shit graphics and boring music? Man, just take a look at mod X, Y or Z and reconsider!

 

If Doom had been limited to just its original IWADs and engine, without all the work that has been made since in ever more impressive mods and ever more impressive ports, yeah, it would be forgettable. Maybe a cult classic, at best. But the game is still alive today because it's so much more than that now.

 

4 hours ago, HombreSal said:

Doom arguably invented game modding. Why would it die?

Nah, it was older than that. Doom invented perhaps slightly more convenient modding, as its data storage scheme was designed to avoid the issue that plagued Wolf 3D modding where basically each mod is borderline warez as you need to distribute a fullly-working standalone game. (I oversimplify a bit here, this is a digression.)

 

Doom didn't entirely stick the landing on that, since sprites and flats still suffer from namespace issues, which led the community to have to create tools like NWT or DEUTEX to compensate.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Gez

[Biodegradable]

1 hour ago, SlayerOGames666 said:

I told him that it's probably never going to happen and how classic doom's modding capabilities outshine EVERYTHING nuDoom does, and it'll never go away like poof, but he ended up firing back with "but classic doom has shit graphics and boring music you retard, ever played DOOM Eternal?"

 

And with such sound and highly-skilled deductive reasoning as that, who could possibly argue? Right, pack it up, folks. Delete your sourceports and level editors, shut down the forum, wiki and idgames archive. We had a good run. lmfao

Edited April 19, 2021 by Biodegradable

[ReaperAA]

3 hours ago, SlayerOGames666 said:

I told him that it's probably never going to happen and how classic doom's modding capabilities outshine EVERYTHING nuDoom does, and it'll never go away like poof, but he ended up firing back with "but classic doom has shit graphics and boring music you retard, ever played DOOM Eternal?". Everyone else in the friend group seemed to side with the nuDoom player.

 

You should ask your "wise friend" what he thinks about Minecraft and why it is popular.

 

Surely Minecraft must be a shitty game because it has shit graphics, RIGHT!

[ReX]

6 hours ago, SlayerOGames666 said:

"but classic doom has shit graphics and boring music you retard, ever played DOOM Eternal?"

By that definition Blood II and SiN ought to have been runaway successes. And yet they were not.

[Rudolph]

21 minutes ago, ReX said:

By that definition Blood II and SiN ought to have been runaway successes. And yet they were not.

I cannot speak for Blood II, but SiN's graphics and music leave much to be desired.

[D4NUK1]

I hope just to 4 or 5 years, to Doom Eternal be part of the Classic Dooom, and say, yeah, im enjoy Classic Doom, looks a this banger of music and OST!
 

I remeber when this RIP'TEAR every other classic action game! 

[ReX]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

SiN's graphics and music leave much to be desired

The graphics were, as intended, pretty good. But the game was buggy as hell, and ruined the experience.

[Average]

10 hours ago, HombreSal said:

Doom arguably invented game modding. Why would it die?

 

Manic Miner and Boulderdash would like a word, mister. :P

 

On topic, though - At this point classic Doom is now a culture.  With its history it is so much more than 'just a game' with 'shit graphics'.  It truly has become a cultural touchstone.  In the future when everyone is running Windoze XXI and Doom 2016 is long broken and dropped by Nu-Id, classic Doom will still be running... and even better than it does now.

[Samz707]

2 hours ago, ReX said:

By that definition Blood II and SiN ought to have been runaway successes. And yet they were not.

Because they were buggy messes. (And even then, SiN has actually seen resurgence as a cult-classic and is actually getting a remaster this year, since the game is seen as good with modern re-releases that have all the patches included.)

 

14 hours ago, roadworx said:

wat? so? just because people point out its flaws doesn't mean that its been "forgotten"

 

and also, trying to compare the tomb raider series to the doom series is just...strange, tbh. the two franchises are in two completely different situations for a variety of reasons; to say that the state of one is prophetic of the state of another in this case is wildly incorrect

 

I worded it poorly, but the "flaw" isn't actually present in the games themselves in TR's case.

At least to me, I see at least a decent bit of people acting like Classic Doom was entirely slaughter maps and Doom 3 is borderline a different game entirely for not having big arenas. (even though Classic Doom has more than a handful of slower maze maps where the enemy count in an encounter is always under 10.) 

Not quite the same admittingly but to me at least, for both franchises, I see that a good few modern fans don't seem to know much at all about the older titles but act like the "nu" games are exactly like the older ones/while putting down one or two of the older games stating misinformation they clearly just heard from somewhere else.

 

Maybe I'm just pessimistic but I doubt mainline doom will ever go back to the secret hunting-maze-like levels of Doom 1 and 2 and will continue entirely with the New 2016-style.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Samz707

[roadworx]

3 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

At least to me, I see at least a decent bit of people acting like Classic Doom was entirely slaughter maps

where are you seeing people act like this lol

 

5 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Not quite the same admittingly but to me at least, for both franchises, I see that a good few modern fans don't seem to know much at all about the older titles but act like the "nu" games are exactly like the older ones/while putting down one or two of the older games stating misinformation they clearly just heard from somewhere else.

but by no means does that mean the classic doom community is just gonna fade away. classic tomb raider's community may become (or has become, idk, i don't know a whole ton about it) a shell of its former self, sure, but that's for completely different reasons that this community fortunately doesn't have to deal with

 

18 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Maybe I'm just pessimistic but I doubt mainline doom will ever go back to the secret hunting-maze-like levels of Doom 1 and 2 and will continue entirely with the New 2016-style. 

it won't go back to that, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. the series has gone in a new direction, that's all

 

change happens, you gotta accept that. besides, why care about the new games when the stuff this community puts out on a regular basis is honestly better :)

[SlayerOGames666]

12 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

 

And with such sound and highly-skilled deductive reasoning as that, who could possibly argue? Right, pack it up, folks. Delete your sourceports and level editors, shut down the forum, wiki and idgames archive. We had a good run. lmfao

lmao
 

 

7 hours ago, ReX said:

By that definition Blood II and SiN ought to have been runaway successes. And yet they were not.

My friend doesn't know what those two games are...

 

 

13 hours ago, Jello said:

Sounds like you need new friends.

 

Half sarcastic.

Agreeable, have been talking to some new people lately.

[smeghammer]

On 4/18/2021 at 1:41 PM, holaareola said:

Tell your younger siblings or kids if you have them!

 

Both my kids (9 y/o daughter and 5 y/o son) are both fascinated when I play Doom and/or am mapping. My daughter also makes 3D-ish map games in something called Purple Mash (a browser based educational tool) that are rudimentary precursors of Doom maps. She'll get on to Eureka (she's on Ubuntu as well) soon enough. My boy is - currently - building ships and steam engines with a game called StormWorks and I'm sure he'll want to do the Doom thing soon enough...

 

So, to follow comments in this thread - it's unlikely to be forgotten for a while.

 

The actual question? If it is forgotten, it won't be played any more, because nobody will remember it...

[holaareola]

23 hours ago, smeghammer said:

 

Both my kids (9 y/o daughter and 5 y/o son) are both fascinated when I play Doom and/or am mapping. My daughter also makes 3D-ish map games in something called Purple Mash (a browser based educational tool) that are rudimentary precursors of Doom maps. She'll get on to Eureka (she's on Ubuntu as well) soon enough. My boy is - currently - building ships and steam engines with a game called StormWorks and I'm sure he'll want to do the Doom thing soon enough...

 

So, to follow comments in this thread - it's unlikely to be forgotten for a while.

 

The actual question? If it is forgotten, it won't be played any more, because nobody will remember it...

Ah, that's so nice to hear.  Sounds like you've got another generation of Doom remembrance sorted there.

 

My little bro likes the editing side too, although he finds the Doom Builders a bit too tricky to get to grips with so far, so I do most of it. He'd love to design games and I feel like Doom is a great way to teach some macro game design easily: pacing, contrast, difficulty, using systems together and thinking about the player.

 

He's big into Minecraft too, but it has so much scope and variety I feel like those aspects are harder to glean from it. Maybe it's just the way he makes content in it, but it seems more to me like an amazing, living construction set than a game.

[magicsofa]

On 4/19/2021 at 4:13 AM, Biodegradable said:

 

And with such sound and highly-skilled deductive reasoning as that, who could possibly argue? Right, pack it up, folks. Delete your sourceports and level editors, shut down the forum, wiki and idgames archive. We had a good run. lmfao

A coworker the other day mentioned that they got a classic Doom bundle on the playstation store... another guy replied with "But isn't Doom '93 pretty much unplayable at this point?"

Instead of asking how he thought a game could change playability even though it was the same game, I decided to ignore.
 

On 4/19/2021 at 6:54 AM, ReaperAA said:

You should ask your "wise friend" what he thinks about Minecraft and why it is popular.

 

Surely Minecraft must be a shitty game because it has shit graphics, RIGHT!

People think Minecraft has "crap graphics" because the textures are low res. But really, there can be quite a lot of those innocuous cubes on the screen at once...

[Nevander]

On 4/18/2021 at 1:14 PM, Cynical said:

Everything gets forgotten on a long enough timeline.

Only human extinction could logically cause that. So long as humans exist, somebody somewhere will remember Doom.

[Oldschoolgeek32]

What if Classic DOOM gets forgotten..?

This is quite a tricky question so I'll try my best to summarize my thoughts:
In some form or another, Classic Doom won't get forgotten or disappear anytime soon, classic Doom is still fairly well known among the Doom community, it still has a very passionate and solid community and player-base, and even some younger and new players still do play classic doom. However, like everything in life, all great thing come to an end, nothing lasts forever. It wouldn't truly be "forgotten", it just wouldn't have the same strength as much as now. We are quite lucky to live in an era where Classic Doom is still positively relevant, being remembered, played, and preserved and as much as possible, I hope that even in the future, despite the years that pass, Doom will still be remembered

 

 Doom will never be forgotten, Doom is eternal XD

[Samz707]

On 4/19/2021 at 4:22 PM, roadworx said:

change happens, you gotta accept that. besides, why care about the new games when the stuff this community puts out on a regular basis is honestly better :)

Yeah but IMO it really wasn't a good change, Doom 3 was a change I enjoyed (even if it wasn't perfect) but I honestly don't like 2016 at all.

I do plan to play some custom wads sometime but I've never played any before so that my start probably will start via add-ons for the Unity Ports of Doom once I actually beat Doom 2 for the first time. (Even then I'd really like to see the kind of cool stuff the classic doom style could have added via a modern engine.)

Change in itself isn't inherently a good thing and I've honestly noticed for several series nowadays an inclination for certain obnoxious fans to claim you don't like change at all if you don't like a new installment as a blanket "Your opinion is wrong." statement.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Samz707

[lokbustam257]

On 4/18/2021 at 6:18 PM, Redneckerz said:

Another great case for:

 

 

I'm started to downlod this image now

[SlayerOGames666]

how to lock a thread

[DoodGuy]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:47 AM, SlayerOGames666 said:

Oh god, if Doomworld gets forgotten and everyone remembers the community to be r/DOOM...

 

[zokum]

Doom will probably live on for a long time simply due to the fact that it is one of the easiest games to make mods for. There are tons of excellent tools, tutorials about all kinds of aspects of building stuff for the game and the basic map making is very easy due to the way the engine is constructed.

Quake is just as open as Doom is, and the source has been around for almost as long. Quake C was out before Doom's source was out. Quake was designed with modifications in mind. Doom had it slightly as an after thought - you can't modify sprites or monster behaviour etc in the original game.

Mapping for Quake has a huge skill threshhold - it is really hard compared to Doom.Building a room in Doom takes a few seconds, in Quake the process is probably at least 10 times more time consuming. You can do a lot more in Quake though.

Some modern source ports have modding capabilities that rival and surpass Quake.

[Teo Slayer]

Classic Doom can't be forgotten since people keep making maps and mods for it. It's also still enjoyable and worth to play
Doom is Eternal and it will be forever Eternal