What are your Thoughts on the Following Doom Mapping Tropes/Types/Formats

[Jacek Bourne]

1. What are your thoughts on sniping enemies? (Example Imps on cliffs in Eviternity map32, the central Cyberdemon in Swtw map03, The cliff enemies in the center of Nochance, chain gunners in towers in the mucus flow)

 

2. What are your thoughts on roaming enemies? (Example: A cyberdemon that walks around the level mostly unrestricted until killed later on. This includes maps in which you must keep an enemy that’s walking around the level alive until later for infighting.)

 

3. What are your thoughts on maps that need to be done in a certain order to survive? (Example: A map in which you need to gather weapons in a certain order to be prepared for encounters and able to feasibly survive)

 

4. What are your thoughts on abundant hitscanner use (Example: TNT map09)

 

5. What are your thoughts on famine type maps? (Example: Scythe maps 21 and 22, Scythe 2 map26, Stardate 20x7 map05)

 

6. What are your thoughts on slaughter maps? (Example: (Sunlust map28, slaughterfest 2012 map28, Dimensions map01) (No Flamewars hopefully)

 

7. What are your thoughts on incidental combat maps? (Example: Iwads, much of scythe episode 1, much of BTSX)

 

8. What are your thoughts on setpiece maps? (Example: most of sunder and ribbiks works)

 

9. What are your thoughts on on city levels? (Example: Plutonia map29)

 

10. What are your thoughts on short maps? (Example: Early scythe maps)

 

11. What are your thoughts on on long maps? (Example: TNT map20, Slaughterfest 2012 map30, sunlust map30, Eviternity maps 19 and 32, Deus Vult)

 

12. What are your thoughts on on extremely easy maps? (Example: Scythe episode 1)

 

13. What are your thoughts on extremely difficult maps? (Example: All of Dimensions, flotsam, stardate 20x7)

 

14. What are your thoughts on on very lag intensive maps? (Example: sunder map15)

 

15. What are your thoughts on vanilla maps? (Example: Iwads, Scythe, BTSX)

 

16. What are your thoughts on on zdoom maps? (Example: Bastion of Chaos, Lullaby)

 

17. What are your thoughts on gameplay mod maps? (Example: Paradise, Antesian Legacy)

 

18. What are your thoughts on on custom monsters in maps? (Example: Scythe 2 and Valiant)

 

19. Do you have anything else you wish to say?

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Jacek Bourne

[lokbustam257]

guys, can I put THAT image here?

[purist]

The answer to all of them is they are all fine if implemented well. Some of the points will be harder to execute than others.

[BoxY]

You could easily rename this thread to "please don't start the following topics on this board" and lock and sticky it and be done.

[Jacek Bourne]

14 minutes ago, BoxY said:

You could easily rename this thread to "please don't start the following topics on this board" and lock and sticky it and be done.

Would you like me to do that?

 

Or would you prefer if I changed it to a favorite of each genre?

Edited April 26, 2021 by Jacek Bourne

[GarrettChan]

1. Good.

 

2. Fine, but it could be annoying to max.

 

3. Good.

 

4. Good. Also, TNT Map09, easily UV Max no damage.

 

5. Fine, but it's a bit annoying there's no armor on maps like Scythe Map21.

 

6. Good.

 

7. Don't understand.

 

8. Good.

 

9. Good. Doom 2 Map13 is not bad as it has no prior reference, but I don't know why people like to crap on it.

 

10. Good.

 

11. Good. There are 2 "on"s.

 

12. Good. There are 2 "on"s.

 

13. Good.

 

14. Use your friggin' reject table.

 

15. Good.

 

16. I don't play them.

 

17. I don't use non built-in gameplay MOD.

 

18. Fine. A bit annoying to get use to the new sprites for speedrunning.

 

19. You should try to answer your own questions to see how annoying it is without labeling them with numbers.

[Jacek Bourne]

5 minutes ago, GarrettChan said:

1. Good.

 

2. Fine, but it could be annoying to max.

 

3. Good.

 

4. Good. Also, TNT Map09, easily UV Max no damage.

 

5. Fine, but it's a bit annoying there's no armor on maps like Scythe Map21.

 

6. Good.

 

7. Don't understand.

 

8. Good.

 

9. Good. Doom 2 Map13 is not bad as it has no prior reference, but I don't know why people like to crap on it.

 

10. Good.

 

11. Good. There are 2 "on"s.

 

12. Good. There are 2 "on"s.

 

13. Good.

 

14. Use your friggin' reject table.

 

15. Good.

 

16. I don't play them.

 

17. I don't use non built-in gameplay MOD.

 

18. Fine. A bit annoying to get use to the new sprites for speedrunning.

 

19. You should try to answer your own questions to see how annoying it is without labeling them with numbers.

Added numbers to make it easier to answer.

[Rudolph]

I do not like hitscan snipers, mostly because I cannot acquire the weapons or ammo that they drop when killed.

[Jiggahertz]

1. Really annoying, I hate having to try to deal with them. I would rather have them just not be there in the first place, since they're just a pure annoyance for me, I'm talking about the imps on cliffs btw

 

2. Don't really care

 

3. I don't pistol start so idk

 

4. Don't have that much of a problem with it

 

5. idk

 

6. Slaughter maps are fun, exhausting sometimes, but fun

 

7. No idea what that means

 

8. Cool I guess

 

9. If done right can be good

 

10. Don't really have a problem with them, but if you're not in the beginning section of the WAD anymore and maps are ending in 5 seconds then that's obviously a problem

 

11. Don't like them

 

12. Don't really like extremely easy maps

 

13. Don't really have a problem with them

 

14. I've played through the Slaughter Spectrum with Beautiful Doom on a mid-range, maybe slightly below average PC so I'm used to lag intensiveness

 

15. Don't have an inherent problem with them, as long as they have good gameplay and don't look like complete shit

 

16. Really good

 

17. I stay away from any WADs that modify gameplay. A WAD can have new enemies or slight Quality of Life changes for some weapons like Eviternity, but if you start making major changes to the actual gameplay itself then I'm not gonna bother with that WAD at all

 

18. If the new enemies are well designed and fit well into the combat loop then they're fine, Eviternity so far is the only WAD I've seen which really managed to do it well

 

19. No

[roadworx]

half of these aren't even tropes, i've been lied to

[Phobus]

This thread is terrible, as you offer no insight, analysis or discussion yourself, instead just a big list of questions (with examples, at least). Saying that, I'll provide an answer to each that's equally valueless:

1. I use these all the time - earliest example is in my old map compilation.
2. This is good level design, IMO, and I do it often. A map that enemies can freely roam is a map where interesting surprises can occur on replays where the player can take multiple routes.
3. I like this, although I prefer it to be communicated in some way, such as presenting the player with an unwinnable situation and clear escape route. I had a crack at this in my DBP05 map.
4. Yep - give me green armour and a chaingun and I'll be happy. Zombieman slaughter is an interesting trial by attrition for the player, as well.
5. Not my favourite niche, but I've tried it once or twice. I think of it as "survival horror style".
6. They suck, as a rule, but big fights make good climaxes to larger maps.
7. I'd say they're my preferred way of doing things, but the odd set piece or larger encounter always stands out better to a background of incidental combat. Ebb and flow, people, not all of one or all of the other. 25yoe is basically 29 maps of steadily increasing background hum, punctuated with bigger encounters, plus three maps of intense set pieces for a reason. It's what I like.
8. See #7
9. Themes are nice. No idea why you'd single out cities.
10. Great. Especially in megaWADs. I've made many.
11. They're fine. Best as individual releases or the big finale/penultimate map.
12. They're cool - don't drag out too long if you're not going to be challenging and I'll happily munch them up like popcorn.
13. Not interested.
14. Get a better PC, or set your settings and choose your port accordingly.
15. They're fine - the format is restrictive, a pain to work with and getting very tired, but it's about as simple as it gets (cl9 limit-removing is the ideal, as you can stick to the simplicity of vanilla line actions and have the raised limits and less finicky handling of Boom anyway)
16. ZDoom is a great source port - GZDoom is very nice. You can do so much, and yet still make classic-styled experiences just as easily. Why anybody would choose not to at least try UDMF is beyond me.
17. It's the best use of game play mods, as the balance is there between mod and map design. Most mods fall way short on their own, so I don't use them.
18. They're great - added interest and spice to the same cast and crew we've been killing for nearly 30 years. I'm getting more into their usage myself.
19. Every answer could literally be "They're fine. It depends how it's done." aside from #6, of course, as they suck. Like this thread.

[Jacek Bourne]

13 minutes ago, Phobus said:

This thread is terrible, as you offer no insight, analysis or discussion yourself, instead just a big list of questions (with examples, at least).

1. Every answer could literally be "They're fine. It depends how it's done." aside from #6, of course, as they suck. Like this thread.

The reason I don’t provide any opinion on any of these things is because that is likely to sway opinions of others either towards or against what I say in other questions. You hate slaughtermaps. If I say something like “I think slaughtermaps are the most enjoyable and interesting maps that exist” that will undoubtedly change your opinion of me assuming I haven’t said something like that already. That change in orientation towards me will also change how you answer the following questions after hearing an opinion you disagree with. It may not change your opinion of me much however it still will affect your answers. Ultimately I do agree with you at this point that my thread is terrible and I shouldn’t have created it. I will still remain here however.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Jacek Bourne

[ax34]

1. Neutral

2. Positive

3. It depends

4. I have no opinion

5. Good if not a megawad full of them

6. The same as 5

7. I have no opinion

8. It depends

9. I LIKE THEM !!!

10. Positive

11. Very positive if it's single map wad, negative if it's a megawad full of them

12. Good if it's MAP01 or E1M1, else negative

13. It depends

14. Unsure...

15. Positive

16. Positive

17. Positive

18. I LIKE THEM !!!

Edited April 26, 2021 by ax34

[Jacek Bourne]

29 minutes ago, roadworx said:

half of these aren't even tropes, i've been lied to

Renaming topic.

[roadworx]

39 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

The reason I don’t provide any opinion on any of these things is because that is likely to sway opinions of others either towards or against what I say in other questions. You hate slaughtermaps. If I say something like “I think slaughtermaps are the most enjoyable and interesting maps that exist” that will undoubtedly change your opinion of me assuming I haven’t said something like that already. That change in orientation towards me will also change how you answer the following questions after hearing an opinion you disagree with. It may not change your opinion of me much however it still will affect your answers. Ultimately I do agree with you at this point that my thread is terrible and I shouldn’t have created it. I will still remain here however.

you're way, WAYYYY overthinking things. unless you're performing a survey and doing a statistical analysis, then any bias created is gonna be so subtle that it won't affect anything. you shouldn't worry about those things when you're making a thread on a forum lol

 

33 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

Renaming topic.

that was a joke btw, there was no need to do that

[Jacek Bourne]

1 hour ago, BoxY said:

You could easily rename this thread to "please don't start the following topics on this board" and lock and sticky it and be done.

I’d still like to know if I should do this.

[Arbys550]

1. I've never liked sniping enemies

2. I usually don't like roaming enemies or cybers

3. I usually don't like maps like these

4. It's alright, depends on the situation. If it's a million hitscanners on a distant ledge, then no

5. I like berserk punching, but when there's no berserk famine type maps are usually just a drag waiting for stuff to infight.

6. Love slaughter maps

7. I don't like incidental combat for the most part, but I enjoy it when it's easy

8. I love setpiece maps

9. I like city levels for the most part

10. Short maps can be good, but most times unmemorable

11. Love giant maps

12. I like easy maps

13. Depends on if they're my style or not. The harder a map is, the more susceptible it is to me hating it because it's not my type

14. Sunder map15 doesn't really lag a lot for me except that one insane spot

15. I like them if done well

16. I don't use ZDoom based source ports as much, but once in a while I enjoy ZDoom wads

17. They're okay if not too extreme

18. Custom monsters can be fun

 

I don't see what the big deal is with the attitudes about this thread, I enjoy reading everyone's thoughts on this type of stuff. Of course it depends, but I answered this based on what I feel the majority of the time, or how I feel when one of these items is done the way that most doom players dub as "well done."

Edited April 26, 2021 by Arbys550

[KeaganDunn]

Despite the thread being redundant, it does open up some conversation - I can state what I enjoy about Doom...

 

1. Depends on who and where they are, of course. Chaingunners sniping you from afar I'm not particularly fond of, but projectile enemies or even Archviles work great, the latter functioning as boundary control.

2. If this is talking about having enemies in a map that have to stay alive for your own survival, I don't mind it per se, but it can be annoying for a first-time playthrough.

3. Hmm...that one's a tough one. I initially made maps that were like that, before realizing how unfriendly and possibly unfun it really was. It's a niche that some people might enjoy, as a sort of combat puzzle element. There are times when I'm not fond of it, especially in difficult mapsets.

4. As long as it ain't nothing but chaingunners, I'm good.

5. Similar to #3, it depends on the audience the mapper is going for, and if the player is in the mood for ammo-starvation and careful puzzle-like combat.

 

6. I love slaughtermaps to an extent - I suppose "reasonable" would make the most sense, as I enjoy open-ended slaughter the most (Sunder MAP11/MAP15, 20x6 MAP07), with the occasional small-scale challenge. They can be exhausting, but that's why you take breaks. I think the primary reason some people don't like slaughtermaps is because they've had bad experiences with it, or they associate slaughter with...ahem...Holy Hell Revealed, or other unreasonable, large-scale stuff like that. I recently made a map that has slaughter elements but is not too demanding at all. Bio and Clippy enjoyed it, along with several others. There's many different types of slaughter-oriented combat, just gotta find what you like most.

7. Compared to setpiece/slaughter, I am not a fan of incidental combat. It's probably why I cannot really recall my first playthrough of Doom (almost a year ago) - I was just plowing through all the IWADs. Gameplay has always been the most important thing in games to me, and that's why I love...

8. Setpiece-oriented combat. This is what I make and what I love playing. There's always a jolt of adrenaline to setpiece combat. I love Ribbiks' works for this very reason; "organized chaos", if you will. Why is God Machine, Magnus, SWTW, and such so memorable? It's because of their organized, setpiece-oriented gameplay contained within beautiful, large-scale, atmospheric environments. SWTW MAP03, for example, has an absurd BFG fight where you dodge four cybers at a time with HK/Rev snipers all around (at least on UV), it's awesome and a lot of fun. I've been finding it hard to place down monsters in a map without them serving a good purpose rather than the occasional fodder here and there. 

 

9. As said before, themes are nice regardless of quality - Sunder MAP19 is an experience. Can't speak much for this one.

10. If I'm in the mood, I'll plow through some short maps. They are fun and nice to play as refreshers.

11. And if I'm in the mood for big adventure/slaughtermaps I'll dive headfirst into those. I have yet to see/play the infamous large maps of Eviternity, but unless they got memorable setpieces I probably won't enjoy them. If long maps are memorable and worthwhile, I really like them. I did not like Magnolia that much due to the gameplay hardly peaking in difficulty (on HNTR/HMP at least) and more about wandering around, especially MAP03.

12. Fun for a first playthrough, but usually very forgettable unless you're speedrunning. Scythe's first 20 maps are a good example.

13. Okay...I'm very much on the fence with difficult maps. I love a challenge, and like I said in #8 memorable setpieces are what make difficult maps fun to play - it's what I enjoy making too. But RNG...oh how I wish you had mercy on me. I've always said this: Ribbiks and Insane_Gazebo make some fucking amazing maps, but they are so hard to enjoy for difficulty/RNG reasons. Like Arbys said, it depends on the gameplay style.

 

14. I've had experience with laggy games so I don't mind it that much unless something is supposed to be running well and suddenly it's not...you know. If framerate issues are detrimental to my play/concentration I might have a problem with it. I have yet to experience that, though.

15. Similar to what I said in #6-8, it all depends on what you're into - but you can't make a lot of stuff with the vanilla format relatively-speaking. I learned mapping in the Boom format VERY quickly for this reason, and probably won't touch BTSX and Hell Revealed.

16. I have yet to play a lot more and understand the ZDoom formats, being a bit of a purist myself, but Bastion of Chaos and Lullaby are amazing. Gotta have good gameplay in expansive (G)ZDoom maps, too, which BoC truly accomplished - I also enjoyed Paradise a lot. I've loved every expansive ZDoom map I've come across, but like I said I haven't had a lot of experience with them just yet.

17. Is Valiant an example of a gameplay mod mapset? Because I really loved it. It usually takes some getting used to with mod-heavy combat but it pays off.

18. Pretty simple opinion - yes if they're used well and for a purpose. They really help when you're running out of combat ideas with the regular monsters. Some of Ribbiks' later works such as Magnolia make use of a green Cyberdemon - functions the same as a regular Cyber but with only 1000 hit points (same as a Baron).

[KeaganDunn]

Some people seem confused on "incidental combat" - it's basically what the IWADs offer. Not a lot of memorable moments, just fodder enemies placed throughout the level with the occasional high-tier enemy here and there. You most likely won't get caught up on a certain area and will always be moving around the map. Can make levels pretty forgettable at times for me, and like I said in my list I probably won't touch BTSX or a lot of downtempo, nonlinear techbase maps for this reason. It's also why I can barely recall my first playthrough of Doom and Doom II (which was almost a year ago now). Some people might enjoy those, though, which is just fine. As we've been saying...play what you enjoy.

[Jacek Bourne]

4 minutes ago, Dunn & Dunn said:

Some people seem confused on "incidental combat" - it's basically what the IWADs offer. Not a lot of memorable moments, just fodder enemies placed throughout the level with the occasional high-tier enemy here and there. You most likely won't get caught up on a certain area and will always be moving around the map. Can make levels pretty forgettable at times for me, and like I said in my list I probably won't touch BTSX or a lot of downtempo, nonlinear techbase maps for this reason. It's also why I can barely recall my first playthrough of Doom and Doom II (which was almost a year ago now). Some people might enjoy those, though, which is just fine. As we've been saying...play what you enjoy.

Added more examples and removed what I believe caused confusion. 

[DavidN]

Wow, when I joined Doomworld I didn't realize there was going to be an exam

 

Edit: They're all OK

Edited April 26, 2021 by DavidN

[Biz!]

I use sniping on with hitscan on higher difficulties, I hate freeroaming cyberdemans, archviles, revenants, and spider masterminds, I like doing things in a specific  order if the map doesn't entirely revolve around it, the more brutal the better, "Alexa, define famine",  that is all I will answer.

[Redneckerz]

2 hours ago, lokbustam257 said:

guys, can I put THAT image here?

That seems about right this time around.

 

@Staff: I know i got scorned the last time, but this time it is valid to use it, right?

 

 

But for the sake of it, ill answer OP, although @Phobus put it best. I feel this thread is a reaction on all the prior threads where people ask: ''How do you feel about x'' where X marks the spot.

 

Since Phobus gave by his own accord gave valueless responses, ill try to put some value back in:

1. Sniping enemies are annoying given their uncanny ability to shoot from great distances. I feel most players would agree on that.
2. Roaming enemies can be part of a playstyle tactic and can serve well as cannon fodder. It depends on the quality of the map if this trick can be executed well.
3. The Serious Sam games come to mind, which would introduce more powerful weapons whenever a more powerful enemy was introduced. Its a tried and tested way of increasing difficulty. I don't think its a bad option to implement, even today.
4. Such misuse relies on a particular level of player skill and can even be used as a test case to improve said skill. Balance is key, so is expectation.
5. I am not up to speed on the phrase famine type in reference to this style of map, unfortunately.
6. A particular kind of map that can highlight the desolateness of Doomguy, faced against overwhelming odds. I feel a good slaughtermap gives off this impression better than most maps would. Its an all or nothing kind of map that yet requires clever tactic and some luck to complete.
7. If it fits the overarching tendency of the mapset, i say it works. Though Doom is an action game, deliberately employing slower player styles in order to highlight scenery or puzzles is something that could fit well within the Doom universe. But again, balance is key.
8. Like most things that are a setpiece, really. I am more fan of a continious flow rather than being part of something larger, but setpieces are yet another way to present new gameplay styles to the player.
9. I feel Doom is less suited for city levels, as city levels require the kind of detail that isn't easily done in Doom. Having said that, projects like ZDaemon City prove that Doom could host a living and breathing city in some way.
10. I really like short maps, citing Demonfear here as an example. A good short map brings the point it carries close to you in short notice and leaves you satisfied with the outcome, without being exemplarly of brilliance.
11. Long maps need a lot of dynamics to stay interesting. Having long slogs in between kills momentum and a desire to push forward. Thus, a long map is one that is packed with detail, secrets, and traps, and makes sure the player remains interested throughout traversal of the level.
12. They serve as warm up maps to the style of play and the atmosphere a WAD set is going to contain. As long as such a map isn't deliberately easy to make a joke, i don't see why they shouldn't exist.
13. They target a niche of players, but at the same time they don't. Most users here have multiple years of Dooming behind their belt and play on UV on the regular so that they are least pretty well adjusted to the game. These users will also not instantly die in extremely difficult maps but get atleast somewhere before death. A proper difficult map is thus one that allows users that regularly play on UV to atleast get somewhere before it kills them off. To complete such maps however, you are looking at folks who have significant skill in the game of Doom. For them, this is the kind of map that gets enjoyment. So i say these kinds of maps need to exist, because where would Doomguy be without a challenge?
14. As a user of a craptastic rig, i tend to avoid mapsets or levels that are lag-heavy (Planisphere, Okuplok). This isn't because i don't like the map (They are benchmark maps for a reason!). Its just that i want to spare my poor PC into harakiri-ing itself. They serve as reminders that my hardware is trash, it is bad, and i should feel bad for not upgrading.
15. I love vanilla maps, and especially those that push the envelope on what's possible. Mapsets that pass off as ZDoom levels are fun. Maps that play around with COLORMAP tricks like colored lighting are neat. Levels that use vanilla 3D floors or mikoveyors are interesting. Vanilla embraces creativity through limitation and it is here where i find much enjoyment out of playing them, but also seeing what people can come up with. If it were me, i would see a lot more maps that muck around with colored lights.
16. ZDoom maps explore new grounds in mapping that Vanilla can't reach. However, i am even more fan of Boom levels because like Vanilla, Boom is a fixed standard. You know the exact definitions to play with. This is less apparent with ZDoom. ZDoom is more about moddability and extending and thus is an ever evolving process. Which is neat on its own.
17. Such mods introduce the Doom style gameplay to newer generations yet are distinctively different. Proper gameplay mods are few and in between and are memorable just by name alone.
18. I love new monsters that introduce by say DeHacked because they can work in Vanilla. Outside of that, i like them aswell, but for some reason i like it more when they are made to fit inside a limitation, such as Vanilla. New monsters bring variety to the beastiary you know and love. And because these new monsters behave differently, they are a pleasant deviation from the core mechanics.
19. Threads like these need a better focus on the question itself. A lot of questions asked here are very much the same thing.

[Mr. Alexander]

20. While walking along in desert sand, you suddenly look down and see a slaughter wad crawling towards you. You reach down and flip it on its back. The slaughter wad lies there, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs, trying to turn itself over, but it cannot do so without your help. You are not helping. Why?

[baja blast rd.]

4 hours ago, BoxY said:

You could easily rename this thread to "please don't start the following topics on this board" and lock and sticky it and be done.

 

4 hours ago, Phobus said:

This thread is terrible, as you offer no insight, analysis or discussion yourself, instead just a big list of questions (with examples, at least). Saying that, I'll provide an answer to each that's equally valueless:

1 hour ago, Redneckerz said:

But for the sake of it, ill answer OP, although @Phobus put it best. I feel this thread is a reaction on all the prior threads where people ask: ''How do you feel about x'' where X marks the spot.

 

It's an okay thread imo. Not good, but okay. Most of these topics could stand alone as their own threads, which would have been preferred -- but again, there is a lot worse than this. OP, I would encourage avoiding the "checklist" format in the future. Stick to a subject (or a related cluster) and be more thorough with it.

 

Generally, a meh low-content thread with a constructive topic (like this) is better than all the low-content "I hate thing" threads that come up every month. Complain instead about "what ____ sucks" or "[some theoretical discussion that is really just an oblique excuse to crap on Eviternity m19]" or whatever.

 

Subsequently, I'm going to ask that people stop armchair modding this thread. If you don't have anything of value to add, or feel the thread isn't conductive to that, better is to simply not post in the thread. 

 

Anyway:

 

Quote

12. What are your thoughts on on extremely easy maps? (Example: Scythe episode 1)

 

Extremely easy maps are cool, and I think an underexplored area in Doom pwads, especially in modern times, where most wads skew towards the harder parts of the spectrum. And I say this despite probably being known as someone who prefers harder, intense maps (which is overstated, but has some truth to it). 

 

I have a lot of random thoughts on this, but here are two quick ones: 

 

1) One thing I'd like to play is a set of extremely easy maps that approach gameplay design with the same sort of intentionality and precise/fussy design that is commonly seen in well-made difficult wads -- y'know, highly specific encounters, precise and calculated monster use, pushing or encouraging highly specific responses out of the player ... except everything is really easy instead of trying to kill you or even threaten you much. 

 

Difficulty often makes this easier to do. If "staying alive" is such a pressing issue, then you can use that as a carrot on a stick to get the player to do what you want. In the absence of lethality, at difficulty that is closer to Fava Beans or "easy Doom 1" or "Scythe e1" intensity, what do you do to so consistently and reliably bring out that effect? Could be a fun mapping challenge to unpack -- good practice for conveyance and "framing" a situation. 

2) Combat -- although it's one of the most studied things in gameplay, one of the most evolved since 1993 -- is of course very far from the only way to engage with gameplay in Doom. Puzzles and complex progression and secrets also exist, but let's go a bit more obscure. How about skillfully made walking simulators, or "fiddle with Doom engine machinery" simulators, that still manage to be fun (or enjoyable in some way)? Would like to play more of those.

 

[Deadwing]

1. What are your thoughts on sniping enemies? (Example Imps on cliffs in Eviternity map32, the central Cyberdemon in Swtw map03, The cliff enemies in the center of Nochance, chain gunners in towers in the mucus flow)

 

- Not a big fan of them, as they sometimes can be annoying to kill and usually slowdown the gameplay. I prefer when snipers are used with moderation or they're a big factor in the setpiece (cybers, for example)

 

 

 

2. What are your thoughts on roaming enemies? (Example: A cyberdemon that walks around the level mostly unrestricted until killed later on. This includes maps in which you must keep an enemy that’s walking around the level alive until later for infighting.)

 

- No problem with them

 

 

 

3. What are your thoughts on maps that need to be done in a certain order to survive? (Example: A map in which you need to gather weapons in a certain order to be prepared for encounters and able to feasibly survive)

 

 - as long the order is mandatory, sure

 

4. What are your thoughts on abundant hitscanner use (Example: TNT map09)

 

 - it can work depending on map's layout, health abundance, etc

 

5. What are your thoughts on famine type maps? (Example: Scythe maps 21 and 22, Scythe 2 map26, Stardate 20x7 map05)

 

 - no idea what is this lol I don't remember the gameplay of the scythe maps >.<

 

 

6. What are your thoughts on slaughter maps? (Example: (Sunlust map28, slaughterfest 2012 map28, Dimensions map01) (No Flamewars hopefully)

 

 - Not a big fan of them, so I haven't played many. But nowadays I'm much, much more tolerant to them compared to the past.

 

7. What are your thoughts on incidental combat maps? (Example: Iwads, much of scythe episode 1, much of BTSX)

 

 - Good stuff, although I wouldn't call BTSX really incidental.

 

8. What are your thoughts on setpiece maps? (Example: most of sunder and ribbiks works)

 

 - Good stuff also.

 

9. What are your thoughts on on city levels? (Example: Plutonia map29)

 

 - Like some of them, as long they aren't too big.

 

10. What are your thoughts on short maps? (Example: Early scythe maps)

 

 - Love them.

 

11. What are your thoughts on on long maps? (Example: TNT map20, Slaughterfest 2012 map30, sunlust map30, Eviternity maps 19 and 32, Deus Vult)

 

 - Some of them are great, but usually I prefer 20 min long at maximum. I enjoyed lots of larger maps in BTSX or Eviternity, though.

 

12. What are your thoughts on on extremely easy maps? (Example: Scythe episode 1)

 

  - Love them, as long as the gameplay flows well. Sadly most of them don't for me >.<, As you spend too much time single shotgunning demons and stuff like that.

 

13. What are your thoughts on extremely difficult maps? (Example: All of Dimensions, flotsam, stardate 20x7)

 

 - Not a big fan as I'm not a very good player, but they're usually work of art.

 

14. What are your thoughts on on very lag intensive maps? (Example: sunder map15)

 

 - It's fine

 

15. What are your thoughts on vanilla maps? (Example: Iwads, Scythe, BTSX)

 

 - Good

 

16. What are your thoughts on on zdoom maps? (Example: Bastion of Chaos, Lullaby)

 

 - Not a big fan.

 

17. What are your thoughts on gameplay mod maps? (Example: Paradise, Antesian Legacy)

 

 - Gotta try them more.

 

18. What are your thoughts on on custom monsters in maps? (Example: Scythe 2 and Valiant)

 

 - Like them.

 

 

[out_of_service]

Just go hog wild on everything.

[Jacek Bourne]

Just now, PSXDoomer said:

Just go hog wild on everything.

I don’t understand. Do you mean you like everything or is it a reference to the poor way I made this thread.

[out_of_service]

30 minutes ago, Jacek Bourne said:

I don’t understand. Do you mean you like everything or is it a reference to the poor way I made this thread.

What I've seen, what I've seen is so bad, because what I mean is that everything is fine. I've been saying this for a long time, that's why I said go hog wild on everything. I have a winning temperament. But look, all of the Doom mapping tropes/types/formats that you've listed are fine. This thread will be such a big hit with the community your head will spin. If you want to know the truth, this thread is perhaps the finest of threads. I'll tell you what, like a fine wine. I've said this before and I'll say it again, the finest of fines. I went to Ivy League schools BTW.

Edited April 26, 2021 by PSXDoomer

[DynamiteKaitorn]

Here are my answers (mostly personal views):

Spoiler

1 Fine if not over-used. I'm not too upset that an imp wants to try and reign fireballs down on me so long as me shooting them isn't too hard (either because of how high up they are or how far away).

 

2 Not a huge fan. Being forced to keep a permanent eye on a large enemy whilst I'm trying to dodge everyone else usually leads me to dying way more than I should.

 

3 NO. Maybe it's just my level design philosophy but I personally HATE maps that force me to do things in 1 specific way, since I'm more than likely to A: Accidentally sequence break it, B: Rage quit due to me apparently going the wrong way even though there's no clear indication and getting lost/constantly killed or C: cheat.

 

4 As long as I get a good amount of health, armour and cover to defend myself since hitscanners can chip away your HP fast, even on HMP.

 

5 I'm guessing this is maps that lack HP, Armour or ammo? Completely distain them since I ALWAYS like extra gear since I know I'll need them like 80% of the time.

 

6 Depends on the map design. If it's more free-flowing and lets me fight in different ways: love it. If I'm trapped in a room and 1000 revenants come rushing down with their big doots ready to blast my ear drums with trumpets for all eternity... no thanks... A good slaughtermap personally is one where I can constantly go wherever I like (within reason obviously) and I'm not trapped in a tiny room whilst being pelted by missiles.

 

7 No idea what an "incidental combat map" is.. sorry :(

 

8 If we're talking the architecture itself rather than the gameplay, I LOVE seeing how hard people push the limits of the DooM engine; even well designed Vanilla maps still occasionally leave me gobsmacked. 

 

9 City maps can be cool, worked on several of my own over the years. Just as long as it's not too sprawling in size and navigating the internal buildings is fun, no probs. :)

 

10 Sometimes short but sweet is the best way to go. Not every map needs to take 10+ minutes to complete.

 

11 As long as it's not too long or way too convoluted in deisgn, sorta fine... I'm not really a fan of maps that take ages to complete due to scale.

 

12 As someone who rarely dabbles in UV, I love easier maps. Extremely easy maps if done right can be a real blast. :D

 

13 Yeah I'd rather deal with a bloomin' archvile. And anyone who knows me knows I DISPISE Archviles.

 

14 Good for a laugh but otherwise, wont play them due to the extreme lag.

 

15 Honestly as long as the "save game buffer over run" bug is kept in mind, Vanilla maps can be quite fun... mostly cause it FORCES people not to spam enemies. XD

 

16 Guessing GZ is also allowed, ZDooM derived maps/wads can be amazing like The Adventures of Square, Rise of the Wool Ball, ^TMoD, Blade of Agony, etc...

 

17 Erm... for gameplay changing the only 2 I really touch is brutal DooM and LaTailorGirl. BD is fun if I wanna blow out some hellspawn brains and LTG is waifu material.

 

18 As long as the enemy isn't overly cheap in design, a new enemy is usually interesting to see how it works. :)

 

19 Yes: ^{Can I have some plasma ammo pls?}