I called it.

[scalliano]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1460021/DOOMicorn_Master_Collection_Cosmetic_Pack/

 

And so it begins.

[oCrapaCreeper]

It seems much preferred compared to it being locked away forever.

[whatup876]

It seems shitty, but some things to notice:

* They seem to be doing this to cosmetics that used to be time based or tied to methods like Twitch Prime, which is the opposite of 2016 having its DLC for multiplayer becoming free in the last update.

* Most of these cosmetics used to be free for over a year, but were tied to time based events and such, which in itself is already restricted/artificial scarcity and FOMO based, like something you'd expect in a mobile game, not an excellent title like Doom Eternal.

* So far, it's not gameplay related.

 

Still seems annoying but this is like a monkey paw response to "i wish these extra, even if memey content wasn't tied to artificial scarcity, that would affect preservation and accessibility".

I think Mighty Doom is also relevant, as a recent update made it grindy as fuck and has actual money involved.

Edited April 29, 2021 by whatup876

[oCrapaCreeper]

The pre-order bonus content has been sold as DLC content for quite a while now, right? 2 skins and a master level locked away? How is selling series skins people otherwise can't get again any worse?

 

I mean at least it looks like they are going to run mini-series before putting each one on sale, if it will be like Series 1.

Edited April 29, 2021 by oCrapaCreeper

[out_of_service]

Nice! Super pumped for this.

[snapshot]

I can get +3 more games with those price tags, nope. 'least it's just skippable cosmetics

 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1460020/DOOM_Eternal_Series_One_Cosmetic_Pack/

Edited April 29, 2021 by sluggard

[mrthejoshmon]

Uh huh.

 

So, rather than, I dunno, rotate those unlockable skins during sometime like the inevitable time in which they stop supporting the game with new content they choose instead to dump it out as DLC?

 

How the fuck does FOMO exist in Doom? How did we come to this point?

[Dragonfly]

Guys. They're skins. That don't change the game aside from making the pixels on your screen a slightly different colour. Get over it.

 

Most other companies in the industry do it; if you don't like that practice, don't buy it - until it stops being profitable, it will keep happening in more and more games.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Dragonfly

[mrthejoshmon]

5 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

Guys. They're skins. That don't change the game aside from making the pixels on your screen a slightly different colour. Get over it.

 

Most other companies in the industry do it; if you don't like that practice, don't buy it - until it stops being profitable, it will keep happening in more and more games.

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/doom-eternal-wont-have-microtransactions-or-an-in-game-store/

 

Except when they explicitly say they won't do it.

[thelazyqdude]

Poor incentive to keep playing the game didn't work, so now they're locking it down behind timed events & cash if you didn't get their simple recolors in time? Great.

At least the steam reviews are gonna be hilarious.

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

Hooray for metric-driven success models 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Marn

[Nine Inch Heels]

1 hour ago, Dragonfly said:

Guys. They're skins. That don't change the game aside from making the pixels on your screen a slightly different colour. Get over it.

 

Most other companies in the industry do it; if you don't like that practice, don't buy it - until it stops being profitable, it will keep happening in more and more games.

It's that not that simple...

 

These "purely cosmetic" DLCs that don't change gameplay at all are being purchased because they make a difference for those who buy them. If you think people only stump up the cash because they want to "support the AAA industry, and get a little something in return" you're completely ignoring how skins like that create a situation where there are those who have and those who don't (but might want to).

 

Why do you think does "discord nitro" sell as well as it does? It changes nothing about the functionality of the service (if we ignore server boosts), but there are still people who buy it, just because they want more coloured pixels as part of their messages, because it looks cool when somebody else flashes their fancy custom emojis. Why do you think do people buy expensive brands of clothes, even though a great many of said brands don't keep the body warmer, or last any longer than something cheap..? Why do you have a fancy animated gif as a pfp in an environment where most users have just a static image..?

 

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, because there are more than enough people who happen to have particular psychological predispositions which coax them into buying into these DLCs, which you make out to be so easily ignorable if only people could be arsed to just get over themselves.

 

Also, DLCs like that are quite often nothing more than a first small step towards vastly more predatory monetization models - and we've seen how deep that rabbit hole goes if left unchecked... What makes you think it's going to stop there instead of taking on EA-ish levels of predatory monetization..? There's nobody here who could rule that out with certainty while at the same time not talking out of their ass from start to finish.

 

Of course this is a reason to be concerned, because everybody who hasn't been living under a rock knows what shareholder pressure can do...

Edited April 29, 2021 by Nine Inch Heels

[DynamiteKaitorn]

All the more reason I wont touch Eternal. :)

[Doomkid]

Hey guys, just writing because 150 DoomGuy Skin Variants for Classic Doom is, was, and always will be 100% free, made by hand with love by your fellow Doom modders. Come on down to your local Doom Explorer server list and get in on the fun :)

 

..Or you just just pay the 7 bucks for a lot less content on a game with inferior multiplayer. The power is yours!

[DaAndroid614]

people had a chance to get the content freely (2 chances for the series 1 pack), and if they couldn't be bothered to grab it while it was free, i doubt they're going to jump at the chance to spend money on it now, and i doubt new players are going to be flooding in over a year after launch, so this doesn't seem like it would do much for them

 

personally, paid cosmetics that you once had a fair chance at getting for free is about as much as i'm comfortable with, any further then that would be much more difficult to defend (i.e. paid battle passes or some other really predatory garbage)

 

oh, and ps:

this is not the first time they've done this, the rip and tear pack is a $5 cosmetic bundle that has been available since the game's launch, but was given for free with preorder copies

[scalliano]

Selling preorder bonuses post-launch is one thing, but we were explicitly told before release that there would be no IAPs. Yet here we are. Frankly, I'm surprised it took so long.

[Gez]

They are in-app purchases? I just see Steam links.

[scalliano]

Catch-all term. Just used to saying IAP when I'm talking with my IRL mates about this kind of stuff.

[Dragonfly]

2 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Why do you think does "discord nitro" sell as well as it does? It changes nothing about the functionality of the service (if we ignore server boosts), but there are still people who buy it, just because they want more coloured pixels as part of their messages, because it looks cool when somebody else flashes their fancy custom emojis. Why do you think do people buy expensive brands of clothes, even though a great many of said brands don't keep the body warmer, or last any longer than something cheap..? Why do you have a fancy animated gif as a pfp in an environment where most users have just a static image..?

 

 

Discord is arguably a poor parallel to make for your argument, since a lot of the features offered _do_ give users an advantage over others, albeit in very minute ways. I see what you're saying though, and honestly agree. Humans love materialistic / cosmetic shit. They always have done, and always will do, so I'd suggest getting used to it.

 

A coat of paint on your doomguy isn't really giving anyone an advantage, in fact probably a disadvantage since you appear brighter to your enemies. But hey, if people enjoy it and the price is fair by their perspective, they're gonna buy it - if it was such a problematic business model the vocal minority would show they are actually a majority by not buying it and causing the concept to die; but that's not what we're seeing here. I'd be thankful it's not mobile-game grade IAPs where your ability to play the game is tied to how much you spend.

 

As for the skins in doom eternal - I don't like them, so I don't buy them. Pretty simple. However I'm not foaming at the mouth about it despite not liking it because what I see here is a business taking an obvious step that harms a grand total of zero people to help line their pockets with a few extra pennies. It's not like you can't boot up doom eternal and still enjoy it the same way you did on launch day, is it?

[AtimZarr1]

Series One is $11.99 (CDN). There are a total of fifteen Event Series collections by today: Series One, Coffee and Camo, Precious Metals, Castle Greyscale, Hack to the Future II, Return of Castle Greyscale, Viva Las Vegas, Halloween 2020, Thanksgibbing, Gift Wrap and Tear, Slime Time, Arch-Files, Flannel Cannon, There Can Oni Be One, and Peachy Keen. If they are all sold at the same price, that would a total of $179.85 (CDN) or $146.49 (USD). The intermission Event Series (Castle Greyscale, Return of Castle Greyscale, and Slime Time) might be sold for less since they were notably smaller-scaled Event Series.

 

The Doomicorn collection is $6.49 (CDN). There were four Twitch Prime collections in total: Doomicorn, Mullet Slayer, Cosplay Slayer, and Hot Rod Slayer. If they are all sold at the same price, that would be $25.96 (CDN) or $21.15 (USD). The QuakeCon Slayer skin wasn't a part of an Event Series collection or a Twitch Prime collection, but I doubt they would sell it. We'll just have to wait and see if it's available again at the next QuakeCon.

 

Combined, it is predicted total of $205.81 (CDN) or 167.64 (USD) if they eventually sell all the Event Series and Twitch Prime collections for the same price as these two collections so far.

 

---

 

Strangely, the Hot Rod Twitch Prime collection were freely unlockable via a community-event just a month ago. Not sure why the Doomicorn Twitch Prime collection is purchase-only from the get-go instead - maybe they figured it was more popular/valuable. But I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually see the Hot Rod collection as purchase-only as well. It seems we're either dealing with a time-gated event or a purchase-only option as our two choices regarding cosmetic post-launch content. I imagine they'll eventually create a "Complete Edition" for Doom Eternal that contains all these cosmetic collections.

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like we'll be getting the content for free permanently like we did with Doom 2016 (and those MP DLCs also contained cosmetics such as armor sets, colors, and patterns). It's also disappointing because they previously claimed that there would be no microtransactions in Doom Eternal. I do wonder if these will be used to justify future Doom Eternal development (Master Levels, game modes, other updates, etc.). It will be interesting to see how the rest of the Doom Eternal community responds to this.

[Komenja]

lol

 

So I haven't bothered with Eternal's multiplayer much (DEATHMATCH WHEN), is this the only way you can unlock those skins after their respective event ends? That kinda blows. Would be cool if the unlocks rotated, or you could unlock old stuff with XP. Real lame if you get the game late and your only option to get content that used to be unlockable is to pay for it.

[Hawk of The Crystals]

If there's one thing that can be said to people who hate microtransactions surprise mechanics; stop supporting studios and games if you hate them that much, it's not going to do anything, but at least you won't feel angry about them.

[I Drink Lava]

Reminder that there is an unlocker mod on the various Doom Eternal modding discord servers that unlocks all skins, free or paid-for.

 

Also holy shit, according to the Steam reviews it doesn't even give you the Doomicorn skin but rather the Series 1 set of skins. How do you fuck up that bad?

[MattFright]

1 hour ago, Reelvonic said:

why is bethesda so certain to fuck this franchise.

 

I'd argue that id themselves have grown more corporate since Carmack left. They've gone from "let's open source our engines for the greater good of the industry, technology and the community", to, and i'll quote Marty himself: "It gives us an advantage over other studios" (referring to having exclusive access to the engine).

 

EDIT: I can't believe some people need another person to say this to realize it, but "others developers do it" is like saying "water is wet" and pretending it's an argument when in reality it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

Edited April 30, 2021 by MattFright

[Dweller Dark]

25 minutes ago, MattFright said:

 

I'd argue that id themselves have grown more corporate since Carmack left. They've gone from "let's open source our engines for the greater good of the industry, technology and the community", to, and i'll quote Marty himself: "It gives us an advantage over other studios" (referring to having exclusive access to the engine).

 

Not to mention the recent (like a few months back) thing with John Romero not being allowed to release any more Doom alpha content. I can respect Romero's decision to not release it, but I doubt id will do anything with it besides let it sit on a shelf for however long until something happens. 

[Nine Inch Heels]

1 hour ago, Dragonfly said:

Humans love materialistic / cosmetic shit. They always have done, and always will do, so I'd suggest getting used to it.

I suppose I'll "NIHsplain" this a bit... Yeah, of course there's (also) "vanity" behind it - nobody is surprised about that. The problem isn't that you have people here who are not used to people being people, the problem is that the line between "optional service" and "deliberate exploitation" is tenuously thin these days - in fact, it has been for a long time.

 

1 hour ago, Dragonfly said:

A coat of paint on your doomguy isn't really giving anyone an advantage, in fact probably a disadvantage since you appear brighter to your enemies. But hey, if people enjoy it and the price is fair by their perspective, they're gonna buy it - if it was such a problematic business model the vocal minority would show they are actually a majority by not buying it and causing the concept to die; but that's not what we're seeing here. I'd be thankful it's not mobile-game grade IAPs where your ability to play the game is tied to how much you spend.

Okay, what are you actually saying here? The not-gameplay-relevant cosmetics which are already in the game anyway, but now paywalled, are not all that bad because something else is worse? So??? We're supposed to applaud a turd that stinks less than the worst chocolate steamer that ever assaulted somebody's olfactory sense?

 

1 hour ago, Dragonfly said:

However I'm not foaming at the mouth about it despite not liking it because what I see here is a business taking an obvious step that harms a grand total of zero people to help line their pockets with a few extra pennies. It's not like you can't boot up doom eternal and still enjoy it the same way you did on launch day, is it?

So? How does that change anything about the reality that these MTXs are also aimed at the wallets of people who can't really help themselves due to their predispositions? How does it change that they said they wouldn't do it, but now it's here anyway? How is it not double-dipping when skins that were used for example as pre-order incentives (a demonstrably shady practice in its very own right, by the way) are now being sold again, even though they've created revenue already? And how does any of this take away from the prospect that this might just be what they're starting with before things get sour for people like you, who seem to be going under the impression that they won't be affected in the future?

 

"You can still launch the game and play as usual, therefore no harm done" is such a vapid point to make...

 

What you're saying here is the exact same stuff people said back when Diablo3 was in the works and Blizzard talked about potential monetization of that game. Come the finished title, you had a real-money-auction house in the game, and people were rightfully pissed off.

 

 

 

Here's what's really gonna happen:

People will buy these MTXs, like they always have. The game will create more revenue, stocks go up in value, shareholders are happy about the yield - but of course they want more when the next title launches. Once that title is here, it'll be packed with more MTXs than this one will have by the end of its life right out the gate, and chances are there might be more to come later down that new title's lifespan. That cycle has been a thing more times than anybody could possibly want, but here we are, talking about how legit it is that we've been lied to for added revenue at nobody's expense...

Edited April 30, 2021 by Nine Inch Heels

[printz]

Disappointed this is not about REAL cosmetics merchandise. I thought it's about girly toys and make-up...

 

Anyway, about the microtransactions slippery slope... If a game costs $60 in the first place just to get it, is there still any risk of gameplay-hindering paywalls? I thought that only the "free" games are susceptible to this...

[Nine Inch Heels]

3 minutes ago, printz said:

If a game costs $60 in the first place just to get it, is there still any risk of gameplay-hindering paywalls? I thought that only the "free" games are susceptible to this...

Look up... I dunno... Starwars Battlefront... or any full-prize game as of late that had lootboxes you could buy for real money... Of course that risk is real, it has been for nearly a decade...

[Caffeine Freak]

58 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Look up... I dunno... Starwars Battlefront... or any full-prize game as of late that had lootboxes you could buy for real money... Of course that risk is real, it has been for nearly a decade...

 

As another famous example:

 

IIRC, both Dead Space 2 & 3 featured an in-game MTX system where you could purchase fully upgraded weapons/suits for the SP campaigns. Or maybe that was just DS3? I'm fairly certain DS2 introduced MTX to the series to a lesser degree, and DS3 was where it *really* got out of hand. I would by no means argue MTX was what killed the series---truthfully, it probably wasn't even one of the top 3 factors---but it certainly didn't help.

 

More to the topic at hand, I've been curious lately about what id's plans for the near future are. Base game is completed, DLC 1&2 are completed, so presumably, they can redirect more of their focus and manpower towards Master Levels, and thereby complete the remaining ones at a much faster rate than the first few. I believe Hugo said they plan on making Master Levels for all the base campaign, plus both DLCs. It goes without saying however, that that wouldn't require the full talent of the entire team, since they aren't building new levels, models, etc. from scratch---they're simply creating new combat for existing levels. If they plan on working from home for a while longer, and focusing more on the Master Levels than anything else for the time being, then echoing @AtimZarr1's speculation, I could certainly see the rationale for this decision as being that they need to offset the cost of continuing to produce and release Master Levels for free, whilst employing a team far larger than is required to create them. 

 

I definitely don't like this either, but given how open the devs have been with the community in the last few years, and particularly since Eternal's release (especially in the last couple months), I would certainly expect Hugo or Marty to address this issue pretty soon.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Caffeine Freak

[Caffeine Freak]

2 hours ago, MattFright said:

 

I'd argue that id themselves have grown more corporate since Carmack left. They've gone from "let's open source our engines for the greater good of the industry, technology and the community", to, and i'll quote Marty himself: "It gives us an advantage over other studios" (referring to having exclusive access to the engine).

 

I mean sure, but even back in the days of Carmack, they wouldn't open source their engines until *long* after they themselves were finished with them, usually 2-3 further id engines in the future. I'm not saying Carmack didn't have good motives, because I think he did. But they also tended to release their tech in a way that was pretty risk-averse, especially given how quickly graphics and processing power were exploding in the 90's to mid-2000's.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Caffeine Freak