Cyberdemons and Spiderdemons.

[HombreSal]

Basically do you like it when these two are used many times as mid-bosses and bosses, or do you find them to be tedious bullet sponges with crap patterns and unfun to fight? Would you rather have them as a boss that only appeared once (Doom 1), or that appears once per wad and then never again? What makes good Cyberdemon and Spiderdemon placement?

Edited May 1, 2021 by HombreSal

[BaileyTW]

I'm fine with Cyberdemons used more even if they do have higher health. I can use em to infight things or am given the ammo to deal with that 4000hp (and some leftover if I can do so better though I'm not really confident enough to 2 shot a cyberdemon focused on me yet). Of course their placement, and how many of em there are affects this. Starts to get maybe a little tedious when I have to position a few cyberdemons in just the right area to feel safe (relatively) in their line of sight, but that hasn't been much of a problem yet (though I'm new to different maps so I guess I'm kinda uninformed as far as this goes).

Spiderdemons though? Less fine with them. Yes they have less health, but there's also not a whole lot of variation I have found yet in dealing with em. Can't stay in their line of sight if I care about health because they are a hitscanner, so I can choose to peakaboo shoot a spiderdemon or just ram into it with a bfg. I can of course infight the spiderdemon, and I do so when I can because hitscan. Spiderdemon isn't always a sight when I see it, I mean just like with the cyberdemon you tend to be given the tools to combat one, it's just that I haven't really seen a whole lot of variation. I welcome it though and their massive health pool doesn't really bother me. Barons are really the only time that is an issue with me and even then that isn't universal.

So yah, I guess the answer is depends?

[printz]

I wish spiderdemons appeared more often and in more surprising locations. They're funny.

[out_of_service]

I find it funny when the Cyberdemon gets stuck in one of those central chambers in E2M8. He just stomps around angrily and refuses to come out lol.

[Naarok0fkor]

I never really liked the looks of Doom's spiderdemons (spidermaster & babyspider). The mechanics are great, but finding a better sprite is good sport...

The cyberdemon looks good in the DOOMboardgame... 

[Final Verdict]

1 hour ago, Naarok0fkor said:

I never really liked the looks of Doom's spiderdemons (spidermaster & babyspider). The mechanics are great, but finding a better sprite is good sport...

The cyberdemon looks good in the DOOMboardgame... 

 

Every time I see a Spider Mastermind I think of that 80's movie I watched as a kid "Invaders from Mars". Which I believe is in itself a remake from a 1953 movie of the same name.

 

The leader of the invasion force (I think it was called the Overlord) is almost identical to the Spiderdemon. The only difference is it isn't mounted on a walker chassis and the brain part also looks different. Other than that the Spider Mastermind is almost identical to it in every way, right down to the face.  

 

I have never looked it up but I always imagined the artist/modeller from Doom got the inspiration for the Spider Mastermind from that movie.

 

[TuomasGaming]

In my opinion, Spider Masterminds (or Spiderdemons) and Cyberdemons should be used less, since they were big bosses in DOOM 1.

In DOOM 2, they are pretty much used as mini-bosses, wich doesn't make much sense.

They should just use Barons or something. DOOM 2 makes them just an annoying inconvienience, than a scary threat.

[Martin-CAI]

I like maps where you can make them fight each other.

[Jacek Bourne]

Cyber demons are excellent for fights that require using it to cause infighting. I also enjoy 2 shotting them with the bfg. I dislike killing them with rockets and using the SSG to kill them can be a bit tedious if you have to bring them down from full health or their are multiple. They are good as sniper enemies to keep the playing moving although revenants are even better for that. The best use you can make of them is to kill other enemies using the rockets it fires.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Jacek Bourne

[Biodegradable]

Most people know how to use them pretty effectively, specifically the Cyberdemon who can never gets too dull to fight, especially if you place him and the player in an interesting location/situation. Personally, I enjoy fighting multiple Cybers at once for some extra tension. Cyberdemons, like most of Doom's bestiary are quite versatile and give the mapper all sorts of fun ways to use them if they're clever enough. Sadly, the same can't be really said of the Spiderdemon. She's always been a pushover both in Doom 1 and just about every community-made WAD. Mind you, if a veteran member would like to educate me on a REALLY good example of someone using her to amazing effect, I'd love to know about it. Trouble is, much like her mini Arachnotron counterpart, she's a bit too big and bulky to be very useful in a lot of situations. Besides using her as a big turret and placing her in a precarious position that makes her difficult to deal with, she's pretty useless.

[Omniarch]

I like to see both used as regular enemies.

[Stabbey]

Cyberdemons are usually good to fight in most situations, but they are often overused by mappers, and excessive numbers of them in a level or megawad can be tiresome. (In the second half of Epic 2, they became at least one-per-level, many times more than one.)

 

The Spider Mastermind is really tough to use. The best idea I have personally come up so far with was in my "More Tricks and Traps than you Require" map where it's an open room with angles for  temporary cover, health in the open in the middle, and some pillars for cover which lower and disappear, so the player doesn't have a safe space to take cover. Even then I had to essentially remove the plasma rifle from the level to keep the fight a challenge.

 

The other idea I have is forced traversal of poison which reduces the player's health to about 10%, and they're forced to dash from cover to cover picking up rockets and health bonuses. This keeps the spider feeling threatening because a few hits will kill the player (A megasphere provided in the poison ensures that the player will have a known amount of health before losing almost all of it.)

[roadworx]

cyberdemons are pretty great to fight, and they're somewhat versatile in how you can use them. as turrets, as infighters, etc. i kinda suck at fighting them, but i still love them :)

 

 

spiderdemons, well...they're fun to bully, i guess? lol

[pcorf]

On 5/1/2021 at 7:44 PM, PSXDoomer said:

I find it funny when the Cyberdemon gets stuck in one of those central chambers in E2M8. He just stomps around angrily and refuses to come out lol.

 

Should have introduced a new linedef flag Block Cyberdemons.

 

They are a great enemy for infighting and can really help you save ammo.

[Albertoni]

4 hours ago, Biodegradable said:

Mind you, if a veteran member would like to educate me on a REALLY good example of someone using her to amazing effect, I'd love to know about it.

I don't remember the exact map, I think it's E1M6, but Ryathaen's Absolutely Killed had a great spiderdemon fight.

[HombreSal]

On 5/1/2021 at 2:41 AM, printz said:

I wish spiderdemons appeared more often and in more surprising locations. They're funny.

 

Yeah I think they're the least used monster. That's probably because they're just tankier chaingunners while cyberdemons are different from other enemies.

Edited May 4, 2021 by HombreSal

[Mayomancer]

A well placed Cyberdemon can make things really exiting, see Ancient Aliens Map01 for example. I think they can work really well in a lot of scenarios and it feels really satisfying when you can use Cyberdemons to infight hordes of other monsters. Masterminds are usually just either underwhelming or just annoying imo.

[Jacek Bourne]

On 5/4/2021 at 8:38 AM, Biodegradable said:

Most people know how to use them pretty effectively, specifically the Cyberdemon who can never gets too dull to fight, especially if you place him and the player in an interesting location/situation. Personally, I enjoy fighting multiple Cybers at once for some extra tension. Cyberdemons, like most of Doom's bestiary are quite versatile and give the mapper all sorts of fun ways to use them if they're clever enough. Sadly, the same can't be really said of the Spiderdemon. She's always been a pushover both in Doom 1 and just about every community-made WAD. Mind you, if a veteran member would like to educate me on a REALLY good example of someone using her to amazing effect, I'd love to know about it. Trouble is, much like her mini Arachnotron counterpart, she's a bit too big and bulky to be very useful in a lot of situations. Besides using her as a big turret and placing her in a precarious position that makes her difficult to deal with, she's pretty useless.

A good use of her is in the secret fight of sunlust map 28 where her great width is used to make her a meat shield for other enemies. Specifically, archviles. Other than that, I have not seen any good uses.