Have I beaten a megawad if I didn't pistol-start each map?

[MajorRawne]

Greetings Doomworld! As the title says, if you play a megawad straight through rather than pistol-starting each map, can you truly say you've beaten it? For example, I recently finished Scythe and REALLY enjoyed map 30, which I've read many people complaining about its difficulty. Yeah it's hard as balls and I died loads, mainly because I dodge like an ape, but I found it thrilling and rewarding to play, nowhere near as impossible as it first seemed.

[roadworx]

yeah, ofc. you played every map, and doom is by default continuous, sooo...

[Gez]

You've only beaten a megawad when you've completed it on every skill level, continuous and pistol-start, maxing out all levels every time, then do it again but under par instead of maxing out, plus another set of runs in nightmare pacifist, and then do that again but in coop, and finally beaten your friends on every level in deathmatch mode. Then you have to build a replica of the levels in your backyard and do a real-life no-monster run through them.

[Mr. Alexander]

Absolutely. Doom and Doom 2 maps were designed for pistol starts so that players who died and had to start over still had a shot at progress. It might create balance issues for players who don't get killed, but it's just a fair-minded design choice that gave rise to an interesting kind of challenge run.

[T-Rex]

To me it doesn't matter whether you play a certain difficulty level or play continuously or pistol-start each map, if you've played through every single map from start to finish, then you've beaten a megawad. While playing through the secret levels may also count, they're just bonus levels to play through. Playing continuously has always been the traditional way of playing Doom while attempting a pistol start in each map is just a type of challenge you can take if you feel up for it, just like playing with fast monsters on, or respawning monsters, Tyson, pacifist, speedrun, etc.

Edited May 5, 2021 by T-Rex

[Lucky_Edie]

If you have to ask you already know deep down what the answer is.

[Deadwing]

Sure.

I always play in continuous and usually I skip the secret maps as 30 levels is already a lot of content

[Steveb1000]

Perhaps the way to look it is 'have I enjoyed playing this megawad?' and 'would I enjoy playing this megawad in a different way?'

 

Rather than 'have I beaten this megawad?'

Edited May 5, 2021 by Steveb1000

[deleted.]

.

Edited June 12, 2022 by a.a.i.

[Murdoch]

You are completely overthinking this. Doom II set the standard - continuous play, not pistol start. Megawad complete. Anyone who disagrees is just being kind of a snob, or is deploying their elite sarcasm skills on you like @Gez.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Murdoch

[idbeholdME]

Even Wolf 3D allowed you to save. Luckily, the times when death meant having to start over and inserting another quarter are long gone.

[continuum.mid]

Yes. If you have beaten a megawad, you have beaten a megawad.

 

I would advise pistol starting on community project WADs, since the levels were intended to be separate. But even then, if pistol starting is less fun for you, don't do it. It won't make your victory any less of one.

Edited May 5, 2021 by northivanastan

[esselfortium]

Yes.

[1Destro3456]

Yes. No more commentary needed.

[Jacek Bourne]

Yes. If you played the maps without using things like iddqd then you beat the megawad.

[MajorRawne]

Thanks everyone, I suppose as people have said, starting a map from a pistol start is really just an extra challenge if you want to go the extra mile.

[printz]

I consider pistol start a punishment for dying, or for cheating my way to that level, not the main way to play DOOM.

 

For me the main way to play DOOM is to get to the exit and eventually to the end of the episode, without cheating or reloading to retry. I only save to retain progress when I leave the computer, not to retry in case of death -- in that case I return to pistol start and pray that the level is balanced for that (sometimes it isn't and I'm screwed).

Edited May 5, 2021 by printz

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

It's the same as playing a Megawad in let's say... I'm too young to die. There's absolutely no problem, you can play the way you feel. Some people do UV-Pistol start for the challenge.

[UnknDoomer]

Quote

You've only beaten a megawad when you've completed it on every skill level, continuous and pistol-start, maxing out all levels every time, then do it again but under par instead of maxing out, plus another set of runs in nightmare pacifist, and then do that again but in coop, and finally beaten your friends on every level in deathmatch mode.

, saving progress at each stage to 16-mm old-school film tape that you will later give to John Romero himself after leaving the truck on which you brought this entire archive to his home. Only after his check and approval you can consider that you have truly passed it. Otherwise it's just slightly better then mediocre, casual run. @Gez will confirm. Like you know, original Prince of Persia (1989) for Apple II developer did:

 

 

Quote

Then you have to build a replica of the levels in your backyard and do a real-life no-monster run through them.

 

Later on doomworld forum, speedrun archives:

 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by UnknDoomer

[UnknDoomer]

By other hand - yes. Several wads on UV difficult might be close to impossible to beat if you choose "No" / you can say that they not designed for pistol start in mind.

[Pirx]

better play a megawad than get beaten by it

[MFG38]

Have you beaten a video game if you've reached its end?

 

I find this question silly. It shouldn't matter whether you play continuous or pistol start - if you've reached the end of a megawad, yes, you've beaten it. Everyone has their preference as to whether to play continuous or pistol start, but that shouldn't dictate whether a WAD qualifies as beaten upon reaching the end point or not. I've beaten all of the IWADs numerous times and I never pistol-started.

 

Now whether a megawad qualifies as beaten if you resorted to cheats is a different matter and a far more suitable subject of debate as far as I'm concerned.

Edited May 5, 2021 by MFG38

[head_cannon]

If you enjoyed your first trip through a megawad, and think you might replay it sometime, then revisiting the levels from pistol start can be a fun way to do a "hard mode" playthrough. You get to take your familiarity with the geography, and add in whatever additional restrictions the designers have thought up. Sometimes it plays virtually identically, and sometimes there's a whole obstacle course you have to run before you can get your guns and get started. I find it fascinating how the same monster & item placement can serve two different purposes, how there's often additional gameplay hidden in plain sight until you go looking for it.

 

But it's still not mandatory or anything. Playing all the way through from MAP01 to MAP30 and seeing the cast take their final bows in that curtain call scene absolutely qualifies as "beating" a megawad.

[P41R47]

you know you beaten a PWAD when UDoom/Doom 2/TNT/Plutonia maps start to appear, or when you reach the never ending cast roll.

 

Simple as that.

 

Pistol starting is a punishment for not reading the instructions on how to use a keyboard to get access to the menu and save, or use the shortcut buttons.

 

And yes, some people like to feel punished it seem :P

[Pechudin]

You beat the megawad when you manage to do what you set out to do. PS, Continuous, Speedrun, ...

 

In order to beat the game, you need to beat yourself.

[DNSKILL5]

Yes you can truly say you’ve beaten it. If you want to beat it again you could try it again with pistol starts and then you can say you’ve beaten it twice, one time only with pistol-starts each level. 
 

If you are going to pistol start each map, then you don’t have to worry about conserving ammo from one stage to the next. You only have to worry about the supplies on a level-by-level basis. There’s definitely pros and cons to either style of play, but pistol-starting being the only true way to say you’ve beaten something? That’s simply untrue. 

[garudave]

Not much to add that hasn't been said, I just thought I would say I default to pistol starts because I think it helps me appreciate item placement more while I play through a map.  Nothing like finding the SSG in a map to get the Doom juices flowing.

[NoXion]

No, I don't think that you have to pistol start each map to say that you've beaten a WAD. As a continuous player I'll admit my bias, but it seems a bit elitist to wall off WAD completion behind pistol starting, which feels like a quirk with autosaving modern source ports.

[MS-06FZ Zaku II Kai]

@MajorRawne Just play the game how you want OP, games are just meant to be fun.

Personaly I like to pistol start on UV for the added chalenge and also to improve my Dooming skills, so theres that.

[SynthScoutWave]

For me, only continuous runs matter. But if that condition applies, even forced pistol-start can be considered, like in any Scythe.