What did you think about Doom 2016/ Doom Eternal?

[rescue86k]

I recently purchased the franchise bundle and played through the beginning levels of Doom Eternal. I haven't been enjoying my stay. I wanted to know what others thought of these games? The graphics looked nice, and it felt polished. I just seem to have a hard time getting into the games. I feel like I need to make love to nearby Zombies in order to have ammo. I tried sniping from a distance but the game feels like a locked in character class of melee vampirism. I enjoyed most activating the giant robots to pierce the heart of the giant demons and watch the heart or guts ooze out, but the rest felt really bland or generic. It would look like lava, or gore, but I didn't feel like I was in hell. I felt like I was playing an arcade arena simulation with a narrow objective or playstyle. 

[DaAndroid614]

eternal starts rough on the first playthrough, it gets better once you have more of the weapons/abilities and you've gotten the combat loop down

 

for context, I'm pretty sure my first time going through eternal was basically playing for about an hour or so until I got frustrated and then taking a break repeated a few times until something clicked and i no-lifed the shit out of it for something like 15 hours straight and 100%'d the entire game

to answer the question in the thread title, I like both games, but eternal is my favorite of the two. 2016 is essentially a fairly run-of-the-mill boomer shooter with a AAA level of polish and a few fun new ideas, but it felt fairly forgettable, and apparently I wasn't alone in thinking this since this game all but completely died off once eternal came out. eternal feels more focused, I feel like they learned from 2016 about the sort of game they wanted to make and drastically modified they way everything works to best fit that sort of gameplay as well as possible.

Edited May 19, 2021 by DaAndroid614
answer the question in the thread title

[I Drink Lava]

41 minutes ago, rescue86k said:

I just seem to have a hard time getting into the games. I feel like I need to make love to nearby Zombies in order to have ammo. I tried sniping from a distance but the game feels like a locked in character class of melee vampirism.

Yep, that's Doom Eternal. The game was deliberately designed this way in order to make players use more than one weapon. The game doesn't really take off until Cultist Base when you get the Rocket Launcher and Super Shotgun. I definitely recommend you learn how to quick-switch between weapons. If you fire a weapon and press the hotkey for another weapon while holding the fire button down, it'll automatically fire the next weapon when it switches out. The Precision Bolt was made for this. Learn to quick-scope (press right mouse button then fire right before the scope overlay appears) and you'll get the hang of the combat loop.

 

Of course, if you don't like the limited ammo, you could either install Cheat Engine or the Doom mod injector and use the unlocked console command g_ammoscalar to adjust the ammo as you see fit. The more fanatical side of the Doom following might heap hate on you for this, but don't let them bother you. Enjoy the game however you want.

[rescue86k]

Is the combat loop fun and enjoyable?

[Chezza]

Eternal has learning curve issues. Also average story and shitty story pacing, imo.

 

But yeah if you can get the hang of the core mechanics of combat I consider it amongst the best and fun fps combat loops to date. My first play through was not the best, but all the others were great.

 

Force yourself to:

• Quick Weapon switch, SSG and Balista is a good start
• Use chainsaw on weaker demons in every arena battle
• Use the SSG meat hook to fling yourself across the arena to get out of sticky situations
• Remember to use Icebomb, flamebelch, blood punch etc frequently, really embrace the tools
• Develop a solid aim to snipe odd Demon weakpoints

 

Master those and you will enter what they call the *fun zone* and it really is great.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Chezza

[Beginner]

2 hours ago, rescue86k said:

Is the combat loop fun and enjoyable?

For some people, yes. IMO it's most fun when you get most of all these cool toys and get to pretend to have hyperactivity disorder. For me, personally, the endless cycle of "start ammo dump into fat guys -> end ammo dump in an instant because low ammo caps -> use designated restock fodder to restock -> repeat" got stale and the general feel of combat went back to meh territory.

[Azuris]

Keep playing, the Main Game of Eternal is reeeaally great.

I also had Issues the first two Levels, best Tip was to kill every third Enemy with the Chainsaw at the Beginning.

It doesn't stays as that, as you gather more Weapons and more Ammo.

Later it will be more an:" Ok, who dies next to give me Ammo".

Imo you will not miss classical Ammo Pickups and it paces the Game much faster.

 

To your Question:

Doom 2016 - I really like it, the only Issue i have is that if you fall down it reloads the whole Level.

Compared to Doom Eternal it is also easier to play it causaly just for Fun.

Eternal also teached me much that made 2016 easier :>

 

Doom VFR - My favourite VR Game since now :>

Punching a Mancubus with Berserk in the Face really pushes your Adrenalin.

 

Doom Eternal - I love the Maingame!

I really can't recommend the DLCs, they feel more like a 90s Expansion Pack made by a third Party that hasn't understand fully what made the Maingame great.

[RookieSlayer]

I played DOOM 2016 for around 25 hours and have played DOOM Eternal for around 65 hours. I like Doom Eternal a lot more. IMO you have to play at least 5-6 levels of Eternal to fully understand the combat loop. At that point, you'll know if you will like it or not.

[Archvile Hunter]

12 hours ago, rescue86k said:

I tried sniping from a distance but the game feels like a locked in character class of melee vampirism. [...] I felt like I was playing an arcade arena simulation with a narrow objective or playstyle. 

These observations are certainly correct, but they are just that, observations. Doom Eternal is focused on doing one thing, and doing that one thing extremely well. The boundaries of what you can do to be successful are restrained, sure, but there's still quite a bit of freedom within these boundaries, mostly in the form of which weapon mods and runes you prefer to use.

 

Because Doom Eternal is focused almost entirely on its combat system, it is also rather complex and hard to get into. I think most people will "get" the combat by around the fifth level, or they never will and find themselves endlessly frustrated by the game. There will also be some people who do learn the combat, but for whom it simply isn't their cup of tea, and that's fair.

 

When the combat is as complex as it is, it necessitates slowly doling out mechanics over time, or you would simply be overwhelmed by the amount of tools in your kit. For some people that sense never goes away, and they leave a review stating that the game is "needlessly complicated". It's a necessary evil, and there's a risk that some players will never pass the beginning parts of the game, which are where the game is at its most restrained and confusing. It's a learning curve for sure, but one that I think most people can overcome.

 

The levels serve mostly as set pieces and epic backdrops to the combat. The story is even further down the priority list, serving mostly as contrivance to bring you to the many varied locations you visit.

 

Also, I'd recommend picking a difficulty just a notch above what you feel comfortable with. If you're stacking up extra lives, you're definitely playing on too easy a skill level. If you aren't challenged you will not be pushed to learn the mechanics, and you will not learn the intricacies of the combat system to fully enjoy Doom Eternal.

 

6 hours ago, Azuris said:

I really can't recommend the DLCs, they feel more like a 90s Expansion Pack made by a third Party that hasn't understand fully what made the Maingame great.

I'm curious what makes you think that. In my experience, TAG1 is peak Doom Eternal, and easily the best content in the modern series.

 

 

As for Doom 2016, it's a lot more braindead an experience in my opinion. I'm not saying there's anything necessarily wrong with that (and I'm not calling anyone who enjoys the game stupid), but it's much more about just "shooty-bang-bang, kill demons, blood and gore, rip and tear!" It's silly FPS fun without much depth. After playing Doom Eternal, I seriously struggle to enjoy playing Doom 2016 anymore.

 

 

Anyway, between the two, I'd say there's a high chance someone who likes "old-school" shooters will find enjoyment in at least one of these two games.

[Azuris]

3 hours ago, Archvile Hunter said:

I'm curious what makes you think that. In my experience, TAG1 is peak Doom Eternal, and easily the best content in the modern series.
 

 

- Levels weren't as polished as in the Main Game

Got stuck on invisible Walls here and there.

Some of the simple plattforming Passages felt very unpolished.

 

- unbalanced Battles (overlap with Level design)
It often exhausts you because they just don't stop throwing Stuff in (exhausting, not difficult, even Hugo Martin recognized that).

Arenas are sometimes way to close for the limited Weapon Use on Enemies.

On the other Hand there is a Tyrant in a open Arena that is just boring.

 

- Bad Gameplay Decisions

Slowing down your Movement in so many Cases is just cheap (also overlapping with Level Design)

To many Enemies that can only be killed in one special Way.

 

Those are my main Complaints.

The Main Game felt way better.

 

I like the Spirits and invisible Snakies.

[Ziad EL Zein]

I am a big fan of all the Doom titles played all from The Ultimate Doom to Doom Eternal.

I must say that the originals are my personal favorites. I have beaten Doom 2016 and Eternal on the nightmare difficulty settings, Doom Eternal is better than 2016 in terms of gameplay, it is a better action game overall but it is not a pure shooter.  The basic formula in shooters is simple you aim with your weapons on demons then things die! The player can feel the strength of his weapon and evaluate their efficiency and importance based on the damage & Carnage.  This is the first law in shooters it is the foundation of gameplay and combat. It is the very definition of FPS combat design all that follows is complementary to this core… if you mess with the core then you are basically creating a new genre/subgenre! In Hack and slash action games the player usually has to engage closely in melee combat. Usually the player has to move close to his target/enemy and at distance zero he has to attack! Generally speaking in shooters melee is kept as a last resort!  It is here that things change radically in the new DOOM games…  The most efficient way to kill enemies in Doom Eternal is via melee combat … This is the big elephant in the room!  I am not saying it is a bad design but it is a different design that not all shooter fans might like! I personally enjoyed it but I still prefer the old simple and pure shoot to kill formula it is why I don’t feel that this is a new DOOM… DOOM 3 was the last in my eyes.

In DOOM Eternal the most efficient ways to kill are

1. Glory Kill

2. Cut enemies with the chainsaw…. after burning them with the flame thrower  

3. Freeze them with the bomb or demolish them with the grenade whichever is charged and ready

4. Cut them into 3 chunks with the red-bladed sword!  

5. Blood punch them!

6. Burn them while flying around like Spiderman with your shotgun meat hook!

7. Use a combination of these to cause devastating damage!

It is fun for a while, I really enjoyed it but ….No this is not DOOM. You still use the traditional weapons by the way to soften up your enemies…You still can hit sensitive spots to radically reduce the enemy threats but it is almost never the most efficient way to kill an enemy by simply shooting it !!!  This is why the new Dooms are not pure shooters. This is why they FEEL different.  I entered the FUN Zone and I liked it but I love the old combat loop much better… Thank you very much!  

One more thing the new level design is open arena design it is simply much easier to create and less engaging overall!  The level design in the originals was simply brilliant.

This was my 7 cents …

Bye now …

[AtimZarr1]

1 hour ago, Ziad EL Zein said:

In DOOM Eternal the most efficient ways to kill are

1. Glory Kill

2. Cut enemies with the chainsaw…. after burning them with the flame thrower  

3. Freeze them with the bomb or demolish them with the grenade whichever is charged and ready

4. Cut them into 3 chunks with the red-bladed sword!  

5. Blood punch them!

6. Burn them while flying around like Spiderman with your shotgun meat hook!

7. Use a combination of these to cause devastating damage!

It is fun for a while, I really enjoyed it but ….No this is not DOOM. You still use the traditional weapons by the way to soften up your enemies…You still can hit sensitive spots to radically reduce the enemy threats but it is almost never the most efficient way to kill an enemy by simply shooting it !!!  This is why the new Dooms are not pure shooters. This is why they FEEL different.

 

Shooting enemies is still the most effective way to kill in Doom Eternal though. At a high level play, quick-swapping between weapons of your arsenal is almost critical to destroy the demons as fast as possible. Abilities like Glory Kills, Blood Punches, Chainsaw, Grenades, and the Crucible are only meant to be used situationally. That's why they are all limited in some capacity so you can't rely on them for too long (requiring staggers, charges, cooldowns, etc.). Tools like Flame Belch and Meathook don't even do any real damage on their own, they exist to generate resources or to gain movement advantage. It's possible to beat the game without any of those other tools but you can't beat Doom Eternal without your guns.

 

Doom Eternal certainly involves more "in-your-face" style of combat, but that's an evolution of Doom 2016's "push-forward-combat" which itself was inspired by Classic Doom's "run-and-gun" style of combat. From Classic Doom to Doom Eternal, the franchise always centered its gameplay around combining player movement and using an arsenal of weapons.

[Sotenga]

I really like both games, but I have to admit, I'm not sure which one I like more. D16 is certainly simpler and less nuanced, but it feels like more of a power fantasy and I just like feeling strong in games sometimes. DE certainly makes you work more for victory, but it is overall a richer game and I enjoyed the DLCs, even if TAG1 is kind of a ballpunch at times. That one Blood Swamp trial with the spirit Baron... aiugh. 

 

I will say that I feel DE's greater emphasis on lore is a minus against it, but this is down to personal preference. I liked that D16 thumbed its nose at the concept of plot in action games and it mostly felt tongue-in-cheek. Then DE just kind of unironically believes in its own crazy shit. I've learned to appreciate the latter's dedication to its own worldbuilding, but end of the day, I prefer the Doom Slayer angrily punching away Hayden's computer. 

 

I ultimately love them both, but I'm not sure which one I would pick if you asked me. I MIGHT edge more towards D16, but I have put more time into DE, so I'm just going to cop out and say they both have their strong points and are among the best action games currently on the market. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Sotenga
Word redundancy

[NoXion]

I've played Doom 2016 for about 23.4 hours according to Steam, versus 72.8 hours for Doom Eternal. I guess that speaks for itself in a way.

The skill ceiling in DE feels much higher, because there's greater complexity in the gameplay and fewer ways to just cheese your way through everything with things like Doom 2016's totally broken "Rich get Richer" rune, while wielding a fully upgraded Super Shotgun and Siege Mode Gauss Cannon. Whereas in DE it feels like more like your own handiwork when you utterly humiliate your enemies. Oh and BFG ammo is much easier to come by, it's like fucking gold dust in Doom Eternal. This means that it makes more sense to only whip out the BFG when shit gets really dire.

I don't mind Doom Eternal leaning more heavily into the lore and worldbuilding, but I think Doom 2016 just about has the edge here; it feels more tightly written and better edited than Eternal.

They're both first-person shooters which are strongly in favour of the more aggressive kind of combat style that I like, and there would have been no Doom Eternal without Doom 2016. I like them both, but Eternal's gameplay has kept me more engaged.

[D4NUK1]

Doom Eternal it's Peak Doom battle design.

It's have many tools to ensure you can win the battle and still feels fair without need to cheese the game like DOOM 2016 or older dooms are.

They have a good sense of balance and arena flow to ensure you keep getting better and better in any type of map. And it's feeling really awesome to archive some master levels as you understand how and when to fight and the tools like combos, weapons mods vantage and many more. Don't feel bad to play in lower difficutly, you should do it to learn and adjust yourself to the enemies and keep better, you Will not win in NIGHTMARE at you first's runs. And that's okay because it's something to archive, not to brag.

It's the peak of Doom Gameplay because now the others dooms should be a expanded version of this gameplay in Eternal and goosh, i want more! 

 

[ax34]

I hardly will play them - i don't like their visual style.

[chemo]

On 5/19/2021 at 11:28 AM, Archvile Hunter said:

These observations are certainly correct, but they are just that, observations. Doom Eternal is focused on doing one thing, and doing that one thing extremely well. The boundaries of what you can do to be successful are restrained, sure, but there's still quite a bit of freedom within these boundaries, mostly in the form of which weapon mods and runes you prefer to use.

Hell, DOOM Eternal still has a good number of "sniping" options (namely the Ballista), they just take some time to unlock or become viable.

[NoXion]

You can unlock the Precision Bolt pretty early on in the game IIRC; I think it can be like the third weapon mod you pick up.

[chemo]

8 minutes ago, NoXion said:

You can unlock the Precision Bolt pretty early on in the game IIRC; I think it can be like the third weapon mod you pick up.

Yeah, that too, it's just that at that point you lack mobility options to create some distance and the Precision Bolt itself improves significantly with upgrades, among other things.

[Ziad EL Zein]

Using Guns is almost never the most efficient way to kill your enemies … Yes you need your guns to carry on with combat but you generally don’t finish your enemies with guns but with glory kills and chainsaws (reload function !) … which is not a bad thing just saying …

Nightmare difficulty was the only setting that I played ...

Played them both once and never looked back.

Although I might replay Eternal it is very good.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Ziad EL Zein

[KubaloBlackMT]

On 5/19/2021 at 2:20 AM, Chezza said:

Also average story and shitty story pacing, imo.

 

It's funny, because I've had a similar feeling about the story.

 

The first time I played I thought the story was cool because It was very cartoony. Stopping the Hell Priests from making machines of evil, and then later on there was the Makyr thing, and all was fine. Now when I look at the story, it looks pretty goofy, but I assume that was the intention. It really is like watching He-Man as a youngling vs when you're older, where it used to look cool and then you look at it now, and the background visuals are nice but the stories of each episode were kind of dumb. Least in my opinion.

[Vic Vos]

I enjoy Eternal much more than 2016 - Eternal rectified pretty much everything I didn't like about 2016, so at this point I just can't even play 2016 anymore, aside from some Snapmaps. While I don't really care about the story, I think they went a bit overboard with the DLC.

[Antroid]

I have a very weird relationship with 2016 and especially Eternal. I really enjoy playing them, but I don't agree with most of their design choices and hope no future FPS games copy them, and especially that Eternal does not serve as a template for the "evolution" of the genre.

 

Mechanically, the dozen or so cooldown-based abilities all feel like gimmicks to me. I don't like having them. I don't like having canned animation finishers. I don't like having to farm small mobs for resources, a system which necessitates the small mobs being infinite, making killing them pointless and not needed most of the time (I can't tell you how refreshing it is after Eternal to play a shooter where the trash mobs stay dead). I don't like having to resupply from enemies in the middle of the fight instead of finding resources in the world and making do with whatever you have. I don't like enemies having arbitrary optimal ways to deal with them with one particular tool that don't come naturally from how all the mechanics work (for example, grenades vs cacodemons, or auto shotgun vs stone imps). It all feels like it's desperately piling on more and more things for you to do and keep track of because the basic shooting, dodging and moving is not fun and challenging enough by itself. I don't like levels being structured like strings of small deathmatch arenas that lock you in and get flooded with handicapped bots. I want more open levels allowing for different approaches, running away (risking to bring the horde with you and get overwhelmed by alerting more and more monsters), having to look around to find all your resources, exploration, etc.

 

Basically, I feel like Eternal tried its hardest to take one particular type of situation from the original games (the kind of frantic situation you get into when you spring an ambush and the room gets filled with a bunch of monsters) and distill it and make the whole game out of it alone. It unfortunately sacrifices all other elements that added up to a much more balanced experience. And to be honest, a lot of how Eternal tries to force you into the so-called "doom dance" feels like a total mess of design choices that got so overtuned it ended up more or less working.

 

2016 is much closer to a classic shooter, but it has already taken a few steps towards Eternal, ruining some of its mechanics (chainsaw to resupply ammo -> no longer limited by what ammo you find -> you can use the SSG for the whole game; etc).

 

I much prefer the atmosphere and overall tone of 2016 too. Eternal's lore completely came apart at the seams, ruined lots of things (by retconning stuff or overexplaining everything), and was presented in really clunky ways. I don't want origins of Hell and Heaven, I don't want a planet of fantasy metal badasses, I don't want the player character to be a superhuman powered by angel machines. I also don't want to location-hop so much that it destroys any cohesive vibe and identity the game could have had (which 2016 is much more successful at IMO). Would have preferred a more coherent progression of environments.

 

Basically, they're very fun games but to me they represent a complete deviation and dead end of the series' evolution and FPS design in general and I hope nobody else decides to follow them. I hope future classic-style FPS games try to evolve the classic FPS formula in a more natural way, instead of mangling it and rebuilding it into some sort of frankenstein monster. The mishmash of mechanics and design choices ended up creating a gameplay exprience that is challenging and fun, but very limited and missing a lot of what the classic FPS games usually have. I prefer 2016 in nearly every way, and I had a blast playing both games, but they are my least favorite Doom games, and I would much rather play, say, Quake 1 with Arcane Dimensions or Serious Sam 4 or Ion Fury or something.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Antroid

[Samz707]

Only played 2016 (Finished the first hell level so far and even then it took me years.) , but frankly it feels like a bad Serious Sam Clone that's the worst parts of Serious Sam without any of the actual fun sections of Serious Sam, just with a doom skin slapped on it.

 

It has worse weapons, enemies and pretty much everything compared to the old games and I frankly hate it.

 

I'm someone who very much loves the old maze-like level design but 2016 is even more linear and straight forward than Doom 3 so it's just really boring all around.

 

It doesn't at all feel like Classic Doom and I actively get pissed off with how tediously boring the game is with the only challenge coming from unfair enemies spawning next to you in Arenas.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Samz707

[I Drink Lava]

@Antroid Big problem with this is that it's fundamentally impossible to make a new game like the classics with modern technology. Levels are not loaded in all at once, they're dynamically streamed in. Every time you hit a checkpoint, the level changes layers and despawns everything behind you. It's also why the Fast Travel system works the way it does and freezes you for a short period of time. Enemies are 100% dependent on navigation meshes that have traversal scripting for jumping up ledges or knowing how to box a player in from multiple angles. They can never leave the encounter they're spawned in, or they'll automatically despawn. Only reason I think games like Amid Evil and DUSK can get away with classic design is because their graphics are so low fidelity, they have the the leftover resources to render everything.

 

Aside from that, I do agree that Doom Eternal makes design sacrifices in the long-run in order to provide a more flashy spectacle for the short-term. Everybody loves Doom Eternal now in 2021, but I have a hard time believing it'll have the same lasting appeal as classic Doom due to its ultimately more repetitive gameplay loop. The pointless platforming represents the zenith of ID Software's capabilities to expand on the core gameplay.

[Antroid]

8 hours ago, I Drink Lava said:

@Antroid Big problem with this is that it's fundamentally impossible to make a new game like the classics with modern technology. Levels are not loaded in all at once, they're dynamically streamed in. Every time you hit a checkpoint, the level changes layers and despawns everything behind you. It's also why the Fast Travel system works the way it does and freezes you for a short period of time. Enemies are 100% dependent on navigation meshes that have traversal scripting for jumping up ledges or knowing how to box a player in from multiple angles. They can never leave the encounter they're spawned in, or they'll automatically despawn.

I'm entirely unconvinced that this is impossible to overcome. Navmeshes can be split and connected with good old navigation markers or waypoints or whatever you call them. Collision or level layout data can stay loaded completely independently of the art assets that take up the majority of memory. Enemy behavior can be vastly simplified outside of the player's immediate vicinity.

 

If frickin' Stalker games, known for slavjank, can have enemies simulate navigating and fighting in levels that are completely unloaded (faction wars in Clear Sky), as well as keep the whole respectably big maps loaded well enough for enemies to walk around, pathfind, fight with roaming mutants (who also pathfind), etc, then modern games with bigger and more experienced teams behind them can do it to. I would happily sacrifice some of the excessive movement options enemies have such as climbing on every wall if that somehow makes the AI or the navigation data too complex. But still, they don't need to do all that far away from the player, so unloaded or irrelevant level chunks (excuse my minecraft-inspired terminology here) can very easily be represented with very simplified and primitive data that is just enough for enemies to, like, take the appropriate time to get from point A to point B.

 

I'm more inclined to believe that they don't tend to do whole big levels with roaming enemies because it's a recipe for a much less laser-focused and harder to balance gameplay experience, not to mention likely slower and less flashy. Which is more than fine by me, personally, but they were clearly aiming for exciting action all the time and whatnot.

 

8 hours ago, I Drink Lava said:

The pointless platforming represents the zenith of ID Software's capabilities to expand on the core gameplay.

Funnily enough, the platforming is where my opinion completely opposes 99% of the DE fanbase (and underwhelmedbase), because I am all in favor of the platforming, I loved it. My personal stance has always been that so long as you directly control a character in an environment, some degree of platforming is never out of place. And flying around really vast chasms felt pretty exciting. Though I wouldn't miss it if it was gone, as it's by no means something I'm hungry for in a Doom game.

 

I think there are two other things that are very telling of their design approach. It's the tentacles (didn't Hugo literally say something like "hey man, we've got to put SOMETHING between the arenas, right?", and then tentacles were the best they could do for a while) and the stone imp (the most blatant and desperate attempt to force the usage of a tool that they'd designed but people didn't favor).

Edited May 25, 2021 by Antroid

[NoXion]

I honestly don't get the antipathy towards the platforming. Do these people not know that platforming has been in Doom games since the very beginning?

[Antroid]

1 minute ago, NoXion said:

I honestly don't get the antipathy towards the platforming. Do these people not know that platforming has been in Doom games since the very beginning?

It might be because while technically this is true, the old games barely ever required you to even run from one ledge onto another, and it was an element so insignificant that it never even came up when talking about aspects of Doom gameplay. It's turned up to one hundred and eleven in Eternal compared to anything we've ever had to do in IWADs, even in Chasm or Downtown or wherever else platforming surfaced a bit. And then there's the burning spinning chains that look identical to the classic SMB firebars...

 

Also, I believe most other old shooters had significantly more platforming than Doom.

[NoXion]

I wouldn't call its presence in classic Doom insignificant! The Chasm would be a far less frustrating map without it. It's also a key part of the Icon of Sin fight, especially if you're not using freelook, as many do.

Edited May 25, 2021 by NoXion

[jazzmaster9]

Doom Eternal's combat loop is unique and different from what I've experienced in any FPS games, but still has lot of elements that I loved about classic Doom while not trying to copy it completely. emphasis on movement, speed, using the right weapons for the right situation and enemies and the over all frantic rush you get when you enter a room just full of fireballs and enemies to dodge. Along with it being just an absolutely gorgeous.

 

There were misteps for sure, but This is overall a Great game and I do hope more Companies try to replicate Doom Eternal's Gameplay Loop and expand upon it even more. and i'm sure id will be refining it themselves as well.

Edited May 25, 2021 by jazzmaster9