Doom Reproduction CDs / Boxes / Jewel Cases? Any interest?

[Doomkid]

Just wondering if there would be any interest in these? Last year, Smouths very graciously shared a bunch of HD scans of various Doom boxes which are of a high enough quality to be used for reprints. I also managed to find/clean up high quality scans of the Doom and Doom 2 manuals.

 

Since then I've been plucking away at creating the "perfect" Doom reproduction disc that will run out-of-the-box on any OS from Win95 all the way up to Windows 10, without the need for source ports or DosBox, just using modified versions of the original materials.

 

I just want to gauge interest - would anyone at all be interesting in buying a brand new Classic Doom/Doom2/Final Doom CD with box, manual and other fun materials in the year 2021, or is that whole concept seen as dead and tired to the majority?

 

Reproduction of hard gaming materials (cartridges, boxes, manuals, CDs etc) seems to have been in vogue the last 10 years or so, so if anyone is going to do it, it should be a Doom vet who will do it with care and I'm happy to take that role - gathering all the materials and developing the ISO has been really fun. But, would it be worth the financial investment to finish the final step and get, say, 50 of these babies printed up and sell them only at the cost of production and shipping?

 

I know selling home-reproduced Doom CDs is technically illegal... but come on man, Doom / Doom 2 CDs are becoming increasingly rare (especially with a box - UD boxed goes for about 400 bucks these days) and this little home made endeavor has about a 0% chance of affecting id's bottom line... Not that this quarter-century old game was developed by anyone who is working there anyway.. I just had to say my piece about this before someone jumps down my throat over "warez" :)

[Rei is now real]

> Doom Reproduction CDs / Boxes / Jewel Cases? Any interest?

yes.

[Chip]

54 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I know selling home-reproduced Doom CDs is technically illegal... but come on man

I don't know if this is any more legal, but you might be able to market it as people giving you a donation and they are then sent a free copy of DOOM. So you're technically not selling stuff to them, rather "gifting" them. I don't know. I'm sure it doesn't really matter. 

[xvertigox]

I'd pick one up but I'd be more interested in a 2021/2022 Shovelware disc or at least something more novel than a reproduction.

[KubaloBlackMT]

Wow really!? That sounds really cool, unfortunately I don't have a disc holder, but I'm assuming most who'll ask for this already have DOOM anyways. You should put your name in cursive at the bottom of those reproductions boxes just for community's sake!

[SLOTH MARINE (CB)]

sounds cool, where do I get one?

[KubaloBlackMT]

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

without the need for source ports or DosBox, just using modified versions of the original materials.

 

Also, idk this part really interests me, you're essentially making a "Doomkid DOOM", so I highly recommend you announce your presence on the boxes or CD's to explain why those reproductions exist, which I might assume you've already thought of...

 

This really might lean toward being more illegal, but like you said, 50 boxes probably might not do much to ID, and DOOM is probably the most accessible game I've ever seen for how much stuff has been done to it over the years. So, yeah I think this is fine.

[Murdoch]

Interesting idea but I think you are on VERY shaky ground legally here dude. Be very, very careful. Alternative idea, make the CDs blank CDRs so people can brew their own?

Edited May 20, 2021 by Murdoch

[Dark Pulse]

Personally I'd be interested, but the legality issue is always the tricky one, especially as the only one you'd definitely be able to do legally in a WAD sense would be Shareware Doom, of course. Doom II/Final Doom or even something like Chex Quest? Forget it.

 

That said... maybe a "retail" version of Freedoom? Granted, that would still be financially shaky, since you'd be essentially buying the resources, packing them up, sending for free, and basically asking for a donation to try to recoup it.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Dark Pulse

[Arrowhead]

I'd be down to buy one.

 

But maybe you could reproduce everything BUT the iwads, and have people source their own - kind of like how people set up sourceports. That could make things easier legally. IDK - I'd just hate to see a little project like this get a 'c&d' from Bethesda. I know it kind of defeats the purpose to not include the iwads, but I think most people here would be happy to just receive the cool repro boxes/ manuals.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Arrowhead

[Dubbag]

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

  Hide contents

I know selling home-reproduced Doom CDs is technically illegal... but come on man, Doom / Doom 2 CDs are becoming increasingly rare (especially with a box - UD boxed goes for about 400 bucks these days) and this little home made endeavor has about a 0% chance of affecting id's bottom line... Not that this quarter-century old game was developed by anyone who is working there anyway.. I just had to say my piece about this before someone jumps down my throat over "warez" :)

 

You'd better hope Id feels the same way.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Dubbag

[Lippeth]

I tend to have a phobia of accruing physical media, I always end up in a situation where it's a burden so I tend to sell everything off every few years just to remove clutter, or store it all away and leave it to rot (sometimes literally), leaving myself to just the bare essentials.

 

That being said I think this is a cool idea, and while just looking at the HQ scans of the manual is enough for me, I see the artistic and historic value of recreating a physical release, one that could even become historic in its own right.

 

As far as legal issues are concerned, I imagine going the Sigil route would be the cleanest way; Include the reproduction as a bonus for free with something else that you can legally monetize. I don't have an idea of what that something would be, and the biggest difference is that Sigil is still free on its own which would become needlessly expensive in your case, but either way I'm not an expert and you shouldn't take too much stock into that statement. Perhaps set it up to partially be a DIY project for those interested, leaving it up to the individual to complete the recreation with their own materials. That or create an LLC and sell it under that name so that if you are sued, it won't damage your personal life.

[Paf]

5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

words

Hmm, trying to get the disc to run from Win95 up to Win10 would probably require a built in start-up check, to find the users OS, and then running an emulator (depending on the OS) to run the game without anything like dosbox. I don't think there would be a way to do that, without emulating the game in some kind of way.

I'm no expert in code, and I am too lazy to learn, but I know some about how a computer functions. I feel you would need a call function, to ask the computer what OS it is using, then depending on an OS, run an emulator that translates the code to whatever the OS understands. Legality? Seeming not good in those terms, but you probably could sell the manuals legally, as you could have a text book of it online, and have a "donation" feature to give it to a certain adress. Going the route with selling the IWads, however, is a harder egg to crack. Having the money from sales go to reproduce the cases, and having it aswell go to ID could be legal, with permission. I'm not a legal expert, either, so don't take everything for granted. The interest part, I would be interested in having a true diskette, but I probably couldn't pay for one. Still a interesting idea.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Paf

[Doomkid]

Well, the GT Interactive distributions of UD, Doom 2 and Final Doom all come with both "true vanilla" DOS compatible DOOM.EXEs as well as Doom95 (at least if you buy the CD ROM version, not sure about the floppy versions). Since it was good enough for id at the time, that was the approach I was going to take as well, using the patched version of Doom95 which enables it to run even on modern computers running Win10, without most of the awful bugs people associate with D95 - The lack of demo recording, lack of mouse support, and "rainbow puke" colors showing up at random are all issues that are fixed in the patched version, in addition to the more obvious fix of allowing it to run on XP, 7, 8 and 10.

 

I'm considering doing this project a bit differently than I had originally planned - maybe I'll just print up some boxes and manuals and call it a day, but I have this adorable little installer and everything that I made up, complete with little Cacodemon icon. The disc was also planned to include loads of goodies like old magazine adverts and promotional materials and such.. but it's not worth going to Legal Hell over. An LLC may be a good side option as well, on that note.

 

Just weighing out all my options and gauging interest for the time being, haven't committed any felonies yet :) ..I'd happily all the raw materials over to id if they wanted to do this themselves as a fun little promotional thing or whatever, but something tells me that's less likely than the actual UAC opening up a portal to Hell.

 

1 hour ago, xvertigox said:

I'd pick one up but I'd be more interested in a 2021/2022 Shovelware disc or at least something more novel than a reproduction.

This is absolutely on the cards - just been taking my time figuring out how to do all this crap the right way! This reproduction thing was meant to be a trial run at getting large numbers of CDs, cases and manuals printed up as well, then I'd use the knowledge to make a CD-ROM version of the Big Vanilla Wad Pack... but it's kinda looking like maybe I'll just have to hold off til I've dotted my i's and crossed my t's.

[Murdoch]

19 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I'm considering doing this project a bit differently than I had originally planned - maybe I'll just print up some boxes and manuals and call it a day, but I have this adorable little installer and everything that I made up, complete with little Cacodemon icon. The disc was also planned to include loads of goodies like old magazine adverts and promotional materials and such.. but it's not worth going to Legal Hell over. An LLC may be a good side option as well, on that note.

 

Surely you could just exclude the IWAD and tell people to direct the installer to whichever folder has an IWAD?

[roadworx]

probably a terrible idea to encourage legally dubious activity on a public forum, but you should do it. intellectual property rights are for nerds anyways

 

i'm sure there's plenty of legal loopholes you could utilize (like the aforementioned donations maybe), and besides, the worst you'll get is a cease & desist. if zenimax actually sues you then i'll eat my socks

[Muusi]

Take my money immediately. I'll pay triple for a repro PSX Doom and PSX Final Doom repro jewel cases/boxes.

 

This is literally the most exciting thing i've read in this whole forum and i get very excited about anything related to Doom. Final Doom's box is so badass that it's ridiculous, who wouldn't want a repro of that?!

Edited May 21, 2021 by Muusi

[Blzut3]

I just hope the irony of a person concerned about someone charging for a source port thinking about doing small scale literal copyright infringement is not lost on you. ;)  Yes, I read your disclaimer.

[Doomkid]

3 hours ago, Murdoch said:

Surely you could just exclude the IWAD and tell people to direct the installer to whichever folder has an IWAD?

I thought about this, it seems like a good potential approach.

 

2 hours ago, roadworx said:

probably a terrible idea to encourage legally dubious activity on a public forum, but you should do it.

I haven't ditched the idea entirely :)

 

23 minutes ago, Muusi said:

Take my money immediately. I'll pay triple for a repro PSX Doom and PSX Final Doom repro jewel cases/boxes.

 

This is literally the most exciting thing i've read in this whole forum and i get very excited about anything related to Doom. Final Doom's box is so badass that it's ridiculous, who wouldn't want a repro of that?!

I'm glad you're excited! I'm afraid it might be a little while before anything gets done on this front, but the fact that you're excited makes me even more eager to get this done in one way or another.

 

8 minutes ago, Blzut3 said:

I just hope the irony of a person concerned about someone charging for a source port thinking about doing small scale literal copyright infringement is not lost on you. ;)  Yes, I read your disclaimer.

I see your point, but personally I think there's a big difference between "taking a source port that already is free, doing ???? under the hood, then charging money for it" VS "reproducing a product that hasn't been manufactured for over 2 decades and not making any money off of it". The big difference being that one is a blatant scam :P

[Endless]

I would kill for a Master Levels big box or jewel case. It's probably my favorite artcover.

 

And Ultimate Doom box or jewel case. Love it.

 

I do wonder tho, won't you get into some nasty trouble, mister? You looking for a spanking, boi.

[Muusi]

16 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I'm glad you're excited! I'm afraid it might be a little while before anything gets done on this front, but the fact that you're excited makes me even more eager to get this done in one way or another.

This is such a great idea it kicked to make an account on Patreon just to support your future endeavors! 

[Muusi]

12 minutes ago, Endless said:

I would kill for a Master Levels big box or jewel case. It's probably my favorite artcover.

Oh god that Master Levels box is just *chef's kiss*

 

Sorry for the double post, this was supposed to be included in the previous post but Android thought otherwise.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Muusi

[Doomkid]

12 minutes ago, Endless said:

I would kill for a Master Levels big box or jewel case. It's probably my favorite artcover.

 

And Ultimate Doom box or jewel case. Love it.

 

I do wonder tho, won't you get into some nasty trouble, mister? You looking for a spanking, boi.

So glad you reminded me about the alternate UD cover! I love both of those designs..

 

4 minutes ago, Muusi said:

This is such a great idea it kicked to make an account on Patreon just to support your future endeavors! 

Wow, thanks a lot :)

[Biz!]

Love your work, man. Gotta get this to go along with my dream room when my family moves.

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

5 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Well, the GT Interactive distributions of UD, Doom 2 and Final Doom all come with both "true vanilla" DOS compatible DOOM.EXEs as well as Doom95 (at least if you buy the CD ROM version, not sure about the floppy versions).

The IBM floppy releases are DOS-only.  Also, some CD releases of The Ultimate DOOM/DOOM II are DOS-only, and some standalone releases of DOOM II, as well as the DOOM - Collector's Edition compilation by Activision, are Windows-only.  All Final DOOM PC releases, and some Ultimate DOOM/DOOM II releases (including The Depths of DOOM Trilogy), contain both DOS and Windows versions.

 

Macintosh versions of The Ultimate DOOM/DOOM II had both floppy and CD releases.  The Macintosh version of Final DOOM, as with the PC version, was CD-only.

 

There was also a RiscPC version of The Depths of DOOM Trilogy, which contained both CDs and orange floppy disks.

 

[Vermil]

I personally dislike reproductions. But then I am a collector.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Vermil

[Dweller Dark]

Something that could be neat is making custom boxes and CDs for major community projects or even the Cacowards, and working with the creators of WADs to come up with cool manuals and whatnot. Like The Cacowards Pack or something, containing all the Cacowards winners WADs if they should choose to permit it to be distributed like that. 

 

 

But if you can figure out a way to legally distribute Doom and/or extra content, then go for it. 

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

There are also many different variations of the boxes, even in the same region.  DOOM II in particular has a huge number of slightly different boxes, some of which can be viewed below in the photos I found on online stores.

 

Spoiler

 

From left to right, top to bottom:

 

Row 1

* Australia - DOS CD-ROM with large OFLC rating.

* Australia - DOS CD-ROM with small OFLC rating.

* Australia - Platinum PC budget range - "Windows 95 CD-ROM" with small logos on cover.

* Australia - Platinum PC budget range - "Windows 95 CD-ROM" with large logos on cover.

 

Row 2

* Australia - "DOS and Windows 95 CD-ROM" with upgrade offer.

* North America - DOS 3.5" floppies.

* North America - DOS CD-ROM.

* North America - "DOS and Windows 95 CD-ROM" with upgrade offer.

 

Row 3

* North America - "Windows 95 CD-ROM" with updated id logo on cover.  System requirements on box mention both the DOS and Windows versions of DOOM II.

* Europe - DOS 3.5" floppies in two-piece box.

* Europe - DOS CD-ROM in two-piece box.

* Europe - DOS CD-ROM with BBFC rating on cover.

 

[ignatiOS]

11 hours ago, Doomkid said:

would anyone at all be interesting in buying a brand new Classic Doom/Doom2/Final Doom CD with box, manual and other fun materials in the year 2021

Yes.

[forgettable pyromaniac]

I'd be down, if I had the money, I'm poor as shit xD

For real tho if I ever had the money I'd get one in a heartbeat.

Edited May 21, 2021 by forgettablepyromaniac
stupid fuckin typos