Give your tips to someone who has never even thought about pistol starting and now wants to do it.

[Muusi]

I've played Doom for a good 25 years now and i've never ever tried pistol starting anything. What should i expect going in? For now i'm thinking about only the IWADs on UV but suggestions are of course welcome. Which IWAD to start with? Also give me your thoughts about pistol starting in general.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Muusi

[Nine Inch Heels]

Here's the only tip you'll need:

Learn where in the respective map the actual weapons are located, and go there immediately...

 

Less serious bonus hint:

Play what you think is fun...

[Muusi]

How about fast monsters? I like to use it on IWADs but with pistol starts, do fast monsters make the later levels semi-impossible?

[Nine Inch Heels]

Just now, Muusi said:

How about fast monsters? I like to use it on IWADs but with pistol starts, do fast monsters make the later levels semi-impossible?

no

[JBerg]

do it, it is very fun. some source ports have a -pistolstart parameter to make things easier for you.

Edited June 1, 2021 by JBerg

[Side-O-Fries]

Once you make the switch to pistol start, you never go back.  It's so much more exciting and always such a rush to start a new level with a hot start and making a mad sprint to the unknown to try to find something, anything, more than your 0 armor and 50 bullets!  

I would just jump straight into pwads.  Pick a reputable wad you haven't played before and just go for it!

[ScrappyMcDoogerton]

The vast majority of Doom maps are designed to be pistol started so really you can just pick whatever one you want to play. I would suggest playing through some easy ones like Demonfear, Zone 300, or Scythe. Scythe in particular is good because the last episode gets really hard and those maps would be a good test for a new pistol-starter.

[I Drink Lava]

Running past monsters is always an option, even in maps like No Rest For the Living MAP05 where you start out boxed in. Learn to juke Hell Knights and Barons in close-quarters. Take advantage of infighting, especially with shotgunners or chaingunners so you can get their weapons early.

 

I've shilled this episode in the past but Infected Area is a decent PWAD to start with since it's one of the earliest examples I can think of (1996) that was designed with pistol starts in mind.

[roadworx]

it takes a little to get used to, but it's very fun once you adapt. i'm still testing the waters with it but from what i've played it's actually pretty great - i find myself using berserk and infighting far more often than i used to. i doubt i'll be doing it for everything i play, but for easier stuff yeah

 

i will, however, say that you shouldn't go for 100% when you're just starting out. give yourself time to settle in before doing that

Edited June 1, 2021 by roadworx

[Pseudonaut]

Routing will be much more important than it was before, and you may want to play somewhat pacifist-style at the beginning of a level until you grab a good weapon, unless you want to tediously kill lots of monsters with the pistol.

 

3 hours ago, Muusi said:

Which IWAD to start with?

Doom 2 or Ultimate Doom would be the easiest. I remember Plutonia wasn't so bad, but that was after I already had some pistol start experience in Doom 2.

 

27 minutes ago, Side-O-Fries said:

I would just jump straight into pwads.

Maybe. Honestly, pwads are just better. They're also harder, though, and often more pistol-start friendly than the IWADs. Maybe it's good to start with some janky iwad pistol-starts to emphasize the importance of of a good route while the threat level is fairly low.

[Skronkidonk]

You should start on TNT Evilution pistol starting. I wouldn't say Doom 2 because you have 25 years of experience with doom and its probably to easy. Then after TNT Plutonia then whatever after that. I find Pistol starting more enjoyable since it makes things a little more difficult.

[Lucky_Edie]

Just pick a wad and give it a go. If you enjoy the experience continue to do it. 

 

If you've played doom for 25 years the iwads are going to be a bit boring so I'd start with BTSX e1 / Ancient aliens / Valiant / Doom 2 the way ID did.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Lucky_Edie

[idbeholdME]

11 hours ago, Muusi said:

How about fast monsters? I like to use it on IWADs but with pistol starts, do fast monsters make the later levels semi-impossible?

Depends. For example, if there is a close quarters HWD ambush and you don't have the BFG available, it might be impossible.

 

Edit:

Sorry, din't notice the IWAD statement. In that case, no, but in custom WADs, there definitely exist scenarios where it might become impossible.

Edited June 1, 2021 by idbeholdME

[garudave]

Each map becomes a little adventure when you're pistol starting.  I notice a lack of armor a lot more than I used to and usually try to scramble for the armor as soon as I can find it.  Almost through my first run in Plutonia, I find a lot of the maps demand reconnaissance before I really get started.  Sometimes I'll suicide run a few times to get an idea how to route a level, mostly if it seems like there won't be an alternative to a blind run.

 

Prepare to get annoyed at the SSG for blending in to brown backgrounds, that's happened to me on at least two maps in Plutonia and it makes life really hard.  If you're planning on doing Plutonia, get ready to suffer on Onslaught and Death Domain, both maps are very unfriendly to pistol starters.

 

Personally I think it's the superior way to play because of the microprogression you experience through each map.  Hope you have fun!

[Aaron Blain]

When I discovered pistol starting, I played through Doom 2 and it was like I was playing the game for the first time.

[Doritos420]

I recently started pistol starting too and its been a blast. Secrets are much more rewarding to find and each weapons/pickups placement in a level has a lot more significance to it. For example, getting your first backpack in an episode is exciting, but subsequent backpack pickups aren't really that big of a deal if you're playing continous. Also its good to know that each level starts with a reset, so no need to worry about your mistakes/low health from a previous level. Initially I thought it out would be more jarring than it actually is. Try it out!

 

For tips I would say, focus on aquiring a good starting weapon, ammo and armor. Like @garudavesaid, if its a difficult map expect some suicide runs to develop an initial strategy. This is especially true for hot start levels.

 

Also have fun!

[Steveb1000]

I think compared to going up a difficulty level (e.g. HMP to UV) or playing without saves, pistol starting is a much more manageable step up, based on my experience.

[roadworx]

5 hours ago, Doritos420 said:

I recently started pistol starting too and its been a blast. Secrets are much more rewarding to find and each weapons/pickups placement in a level has a lot more significance to it. For example, getting your first backpack in an episode is exciting, but subsequent backpack pickups aren't really that big of a deal if you're playing continous. Also its good to know that each level starts with a reset, so no need to worry about your mistakes/low health from a previous level. Initially I thought it out would be more jarring than it actually is. Try it out!

 

For tips I would say, focus on aquiring a good starting weapon, ammo and armor. Like @garudavesaid, if its a difficult map expect some suicide runs to develop an initial strategy. This is especially true for hot start levels.

 

Also have fun!

yeah, i've actually noticed how much more of an impact secrets tend to make when pistol starting. for the most part i never really went secret hunting in continuous cuz i generally didn't need them, but sometimes i feel like i have to if i wanna have a better chance of survival when pistol starting

[Rytrik]

Refueling Base is a fun place to pistol start :)

[Diabolución]

On 6/1/2021 at 12:56 AM, Muusi said:

Also give me your thoughts about pistol starting in general.

 

This post by RjY is really interesting, in my view. Said post did influence me back then, honestly.

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1738901/

 

On 4/19/2017 at 11:49 AM, RjY said:

In no particular order:

• Technical: the game engine is not a giant world simulation where all 30+ maps in the WAD directory are loaded simultaneously and run concurrently. There is only ever one map loaded at a time. Each map is its own separate universe which is destroyed on player exit.
• Aesthetic: very few mapsets are designed to follow on, with "start of next map is copy of previous" design (cf. Cleimos 2). There are vastly more mapsets where the components show no physical connection from one to the next.
• Independence: most mapsets (especially these days) are made by disparate groups, each member working largely independently. Maps are not made with the remaining inventory from the previous map considered, because at build time, it is not known. The only option for the designer is to balance for pistol start. Even maps in tightly-knit team productions are still balanced for pistol start (btsx, sunlust, etc.)
• Challenge: playing several maps in a row leaves you with a constantly fully powered inventory. After three or four maps the game is too easy: you have all the guns, never run out of powerful ammunition, health/armour always well above 100, etc.

 

[ICID]

As someone who still plays both, the main thing to keep in mind is that when playing continuously, health is more important, and when playing with pistol starts, ammo is more important.

 

When pistol starting, you can (and should) play in a more risky fashion. Who cares if you exit the level with no armor and 3 health - you're gonna be back up to full at the start of the next map anyway! But now you need to optimize your ammo usage, which often means getting right up in the demons' faces or running out of cover to line up the perfect shot.

 

When playing continuously, starting a new level with low health might be a death sentence (especially on new maps that often throw you into the action immediately) but ammo is plentiful, so you're incentivized move "slowly", spend more time behind cover, and treat every hitpoint as precious. (Slowly is in quotes because in Doom, "slow" is relative.)

 

If you're more used to the latter, it will take some time to get into the mindset of the former. Both are valid, fun, and rewarding ways to play - I see pistol starting less as a step UP in difficulty and more as a step sideways.

[Yumheart]

I'd honestly suggest always pistol starting, unless the wad tells you that it was meant for continuous play. Not having a BFG from the beginning of every map after MAP10 or so makes you appreciate carefully orchastrated fights and combat setpieces a lot more.

[TheGreenZap]

8 minutes ago, C3ntralPr0cessing said:

I'd honestly suggest always pistol starting, unless the wad tells you that it was meant for continuous play. Not having a BFG from the beginning of every map after MAP10 or so makes you appreciate carefully orchastrated fights and combat setpieces a lot more.

 

Just had this exact experience while pistol starting Map27:Afterlife II of Scythe II.

[Muusi]

 

Started doing pistol start run of Doom CE with fast monsters enabled. Doom CE had a lot of extra features that i turned off and deleted the upscale thing but what's left i really like. Wish me luck! Probably would've gone with the GEC version but it didn't have the missing levels (i think). So excited to play Doom in a way i've never done before!

Edited June 2, 2021 by Muusi

[Muusi]

A few things i've noticed.

 

1. Explosive barrels aren't just a novelty anymore.

 

2. Fast enemies and low resources made PSX Command Control feel like an actual horror game. That maze part actually made me jump because of a wandering Imp.

 

3. Pinkies are nightmare bullet sponges eating your already low ammo while dealing massive damage.

 

4. Knee-Deep in the Dead is even more awesome.

 

5. PSX Doom with pistol starts is probably the most fun thing any man can do, at least without taking your pants off.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Muusi

[Csucskos]

I just started pistol starting, and my first WAD was Scythe... I think it's the perfect WAD for that, I have never played it before, but it starts out so easy... the last 5 maps are almost impossible, but I grew just as the challange got cranked up, would do it again! (Not map 28 tho. I also skipped map 30 because reasons.)

 

I know you asked aboud IWADs, but the experience is still fresh and I do think it was the best blind choice I ever made.

[magicsofa]

22 hours ago, ICID said:

When pistol starting, you can (and should) play in a more risky fashion. Who cares if you exit the level with no armor and 3 health - you're gonna be back up to full at the start of the next map anyway! But now you need to optimize your ammo usage, which often means getting right up in the demons' faces or running out of cover to line up the perfect shot.

 

When playing continuously, starting a new level with low health might be a death sentence (especially on new maps that often throw you into the action immediately) but ammo is plentiful, so you're incentivized move "slowly", spend more time behind cover, and treat every hitpoint as precious. (Slowly is in quotes because in Doom, "slow" is relative.)

This is why I want a "best of both worlds" solution. Allowing yourself the guarantee of 100% health when you start a level feels a bit like metagaming to me. Of course if a map is really designed for pistol starts, that's different. But I think the game-breaking aspect of continuous play is a little overstated, especially for non-pro players like me. I'm not so good that I won't blow through 200% health and armor with a few quick mistakes (or one mistake, if it's a cluster of revenant missiles). Anyway I realize that resetting the map can't be considered cheating because you can easily suicide during normal play to achieve the same effect, I just like to play until I'm defeated organically and then accept the loss of items. I'll try to only use saves after the first death on a map, if I'm repeating sections too much.

Ironically pistol starts can be most interesting on certain levels where continuous play is expected - as in the IWADs. By designing maps around pistol starts, mappers are prone to doling out the needed equipment early. How often have you seen a shotgun, chaingun, or even SSG placed in the starting room? Can't really "pistol start" that one can you!

[ICID]

30 minutes ago, magicsofa said:

I think the game-breaking aspect of continuous play is a little overstated, especially for non-pro players like me.

 

For sure. It's a little weird that these days playing with pistol start on UV or higher is seen as the norm, probably because a lot of new fans are coming in through decino and Mtpain27*. Play continuous, play on lower difficulties, play with gameplay mods, hell play with cheats if you want to. It's YOUR free time and how you choose to spend it doesn't affect anyone else.

 

*to be clear, these guys are great and their content is great and bringing in new people is great. You just shouldn't feel obligated to play like they do if you don't want to.

[garudave]

35 minutes ago, magicsofa said:

This is why I want a "best of both worlds" solution. Allowing yourself the guarantee of 100% health when you start a level feels a bit like metagaming to me. Of course if a map is really designed for pistol starts, that's different. But I think the game-breaking aspect of continuous play is a little overstated, especially for non-pro players like me. I'm not so good that I won't blow through 200% health and armor with a few quick mistakes (or one mistake, if it's a cluster of revenant missiles). Anyway I realize that resetting the map can't be considered cheating because you can easily suicide during normal play to achieve the same effect, I just like to play until I'm defeated organically and then accept the loss of items. I'll try to only use saves after the first death on a map, if I'm repeating sections too much.

Ironically pistol starts can be most interesting on certain levels where continuous play is expected - as in the IWADs. By designing maps around pistol starts, mappers are prone to doling out the needed equipment early. How often have you seen a shotgun, chaingun, or even SSG placed in the starting room? Can't really "pistol start" that one can you!

 

I think dying = losing all your weapons is a good way to play continuous.  Playing on ZDoom kinda ruins that with the auto saves at the beginning of each map.  That was the impetus for me to do pistol starts in the first place, I breezed through (more or less) 20 maps in Alien Vendetta and felt my experience was being cheapened by the fat stacks of ammo I was carrying from map to map.  It just felt more pure to start every map at 0 and try to appreciate them individually.

[Labryx]

An annoying habit I have when playing continuous is that I tend to avoid picking up powerups like soulspheres as much as possible and even hold off on using my more damaging weapons like the plasma rifle and BFG; I usually try to kill all the enemies in the map first and then I rush back and grab the power-ups and as much ammo I can hoard so that I'm overstocked for the next map.

 

With pistol starts, I feel like I can just cut loose and use all the resources placed in the map liberally. I'm gonna start the next map with just a pistol, 50 bullets, and no armor anyways so I'm gonna pick up all the damn spheres I want and use that damn plasma rifle because what happens in this map, stays in this map!