What are the hardest maps you've ever played?

[MajorRawne]

Twilight was the main Plutonia map that gave me trouble during a consecutive playthrough - I'll have to pistol start it and see how it stands up after playing Sunder and HR/HR2. I remember Metal was the other one that gave me a lot of trouble even with all weapons. Ghost Town was rough due to me being on low health for most of it. There was also the shock factor, as Ghost Town on PSX is nowhere near as difficult, despite it being one of the hardest maps on PSX Doom.

 

There seem to be a lot of maps out there that dump the player into rooms full of chaingunners.

[garudave]

2 hours ago, MajorRawne said:

Twilight was the main Plutonia map that gave me trouble during a consecutive playthrough - I'll have to pistol start it and see how it stands up after playing Sunder and HR/HR2. I remember Metal was the other one that gave me a lot of trouble even with all weapons. Ghost Town was rough due to me being on low health for most of it. There was also the shock factor, as Ghost Town on PSX is nowhere near as difficult, despite it being one of the hardest maps on PSX Doom.

 

There seem to be a lot of maps out there that dump the player into rooms full of chaingunners.

 

I can say Metal from a pistol start is extremely painful and imo one of the least satisfying Plutonia maps, mainly because it's all hit-scanners and very little health.  Stark contrast to the incredible experience of pistol starting Twilight, blind routing that map was probably my favorite experience of Plutonia (which I only just finished for the first time.)

 

On topic though, I think Demonic Hordes or No Guts No Glory from Alien Vendetta are the two maps I had the most problems with so far.  They are both very fun and interesting maps though so that lubricated the challenge a bit.

 

I'm still early in my Dooming career, trying to build up to those hard megawads everyone loves.

[Arch-Vile NL]

slaughter maps lol .... nuts???

[lubba127]

probably god machine from sunlust.

[MajorRawne]

6 hours ago, garudave said:

On topic though, I think Demonic Hordes or No Guts No Glory from Alien Vendetta are the two maps I had the most problems with so far.  They are both very fun and interesting maps though so that lubricated the challenge a bit.

 

I'm still early in my Dooming career, trying to build up to those hard megawads everyone loves.

Agreed, can't wait to play those AV maps along with Dark Dome. I can't beat Post Mortem from HR on UV, mainly because it makes a lot of choices I despise eg mandatory damaging floors, Arch-Viles hidden among Revs, long-ranged Pain Elemental attacks from above etc. Dark Dome seems like a much better-sorted version of this map.

 

Also agreed on your second sentence - I've been playing PC Doom for 20 years and PSX Doom 25 years, and I haven't beaten or even played some of the top megawads yet.

[garudave]

Just now, MajorRawne said:

Agreed, can't wait to play those AV maps along with Dark Dome. I can't beat Post Mortem from HR on UV, mainly because it makes a lot of choices I despise eg mandatory damaging floors, Arch-Viles hidden among Revs, long-ranged Pain Elemental attacks from above etc. Dark Dome seems like a much better-sorted version of this map.

 

Also agreed on your second sentence - I've been playing PC Doom for 20 years and PSX Doom 25 years, and I haven't beaten or even played some of the top megawads yet.

 

I love Dark Dome, it's insane but surprisingly manageable.  It has the drama of high enemy counts without ever feeling too sadistic or dickish.  I haven't attempted Hell Revealed yet but it seemed from the MtPain reviews that the creators of both megawads were aiming for a frustrating/sadistic angle with some of those maps.

 

I first played Doom PSX many years ago, just been coming back to the Doom world since around the start of the year.  feelsgoodman

[Tetzlaff]

A slaughter map representing the library of Globgoglabgalab (?), a strange bookworm creature from a strange Christian CGI movie. I gave up at some point.

 

Here is the map in question:

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Tetzlaff

[Dusty_Rhodes]

5 hours ago, Arch-Vile NL said:

slaughter maps lol .... nuts???

The first room of Nuts 1 is easy peasy. That was the second wad I downloaded, all you have to do is fire a shot to let the monsters start infighting. When the numbers get low, use the BFG a bunch then pick up the shotgun and chain gun to clean up the Barons that are still inevitably alive.

 

Second room is literally impossible haha. 

[Jacek Bourne]

I uvmaxed dimensions map31.

Time: 4:01

Edited June 16, 2021 by Jacek Bourne

[Andromeda]

11 hours ago, garudave said:

I can say Metal from a pistol start is extremely painful and imo one of the least satisfying Plutonia maps, mainly because it's all hit-scanners and very little health.

Metal is from TNT, not Plutonia :P

[Some1NamedNate]

MAP24 of Doom 2 Unleashed was HARD by far. Hard, I tell you, even on ITYTD.

[Lucky_Edie]

1 hour ago, Jacek Bourne said:

I uvmaxed dimensions map31.

Time: 4:01

 

Congratulations.

[garudave]

1 hour ago, Andromeda said:

Metal is from TNT, not Plutonia :P

 

Haha my bad.  I played them back to back so my recollection was hazy.  Metal feels like a Plutonia map with all the heavy weapons douches around.

[roadworx]

probably map30 of scythe. it may be that i've just gotten a lot better at the game but i remember that map being harder than anything in scythe 2

 

On 6/14/2021 at 11:07 AM, MajorRawne said:

I'll try that, thanks.

 

I've been reading up on threads about difficulty progression and it is shocking to see some people rating HR and HR2 as low difficulty in comparison to some newer mapsets. Looking really forward to trying some.

both hell revealeds are pretty much baby stuff compared to what's around now. even early sunder maps are tame compared to the harder mapsets these days; people just keep getting better at the game so naturally stuff is gonna get harder and harder

[Arbys550]

I'd say the map with the highest peak in difficulty (designed to be played singleplayer without cheats) I've played is Okuplok, with the infamous RNG revenant corridor. As far as the hardest map I've played that can be maxed, I'd say map02 of dimensions, for someone with my playstyle at least.

 

Also you should really not just assume maps that are really hard are "trolling" or "not real challenges" or "don't count" or whatever because it's slightly insulting to the people who spent hours fine tuning and making them. I get kind of annoyed when people just claim maps are unbalanced or joke maps just because they themselves can't beat them.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Arbys550

[roadworx]

7 hours ago, Arbys550 said:

Also you should really not just assume maps that are really hard are "trolling" or "not real challenges" or "don't count" or whatever because it's slightly insulting to the people who spent hours fine tuning and making them. I get kind of annoyed when people just claim maps are unbalanced or joke maps just because they themselves can't beat them.

i wanted to say something about that but i couldn't find a way to without sounding like a dick, so thank you.

 

when someone says things like that it becomes very clear that they can't handle not being able to beat something, and that they're just trying to make excuses instead of swallowing their pride and admitting that they need to improve their skills. it just comes off as being conceited.

[MajorRawne]

With respect to the opinions of @roadworx and @Arbys550, there's no way you can convince me map 5 of Sunder isn't designed to troll the player, it's a bloody nightmare =D

 

Yeah I also thought Metal was Plutonia, it plays exactly like a Plutonia map.

 

@garudave, Alien Vendetta plays much better (IMO) than either Hell Revealed, as the emphasis is generally on exploration and adventure, whereas every HR map from 12 onwards and every single HR2 map are actively trying to kill you at all times. It seems that AV started out as a tribute to the first HR but the difficulty was toned down when they realised the project was taking on a life of its own. Still, both HRs are worth playing as some of the maps are amazing. HR2 is much more dickish than the first game, but most HR2 maps are somehow easier to beat from a pistol start.

[Lucky_Edie]

36 minutes ago, MajorRawne said:

With respect to the opinions of @roadworx and @Arbys550, there's no way you can convince me map 5 of Sunder isn't designed to troll the player, it's a bloody nightmare =D

 

Platforming highlights the players inability to control doomguy in a simple manner by removing outside factors. It isn't a troll or designed to annoy the player, if you don't like it just don't play it. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Lucky_Edie

[Stabbey]

I haven't played a lot of wads considered tough, but if I recall, I'd probably say maps 28 and 29 of Epic 2 are the toughest I've ever played.

[MajorRawne]

19 minutes ago, Lucky_Edie said:

 

Platforming highlights the players inability to control doomguy in a simple manner by removing outside factors. It isn't a troll or designed to annoy the player, if you don't like it just don't play it. 

There is definitely an element of needing to improve as a player, I'm nowhere near good enough to do no-save runs or challenge the hardest wads out there. But I respectfully disagree about that map. The pillars you need to jump between are placed in such a way that you can't simply run across them, there are always one or two pillars offset to the side so you'll fall if you need to move quickly. Bear in mind you are being attacked by distant Pain Elementals while having to do this, which in itself could be considered a troll move.

 

You could argue "what's the point in having pillars if they don't present a challenge", but I would also argue "what's the point in having pillars full stop, this isn't Crash Bandicoot".

[roadworx]

1 hour ago, MajorRawne said:

There is definitely an element of needing to improve as a player, I'm nowhere near good enough to do no-save runs or challenge the hardest wads out there. But I respectfully disagree about that map. The pillars you need to jump between are placed in such a way that you can't simply run across them, there are always one or two pillars offset to the side so you'll fall if you need to move quickly. Bear in mind you are being attacked by distant Pain Elementals while having to do this, which in itself could be considered a troll move.

 

You could argue "what's the point in having pillars if they don't present a challenge", but I would also argue "what's the point in having pillars full stop, this isn't Crash Bandicoot".

please go watch arbys' or ancalagon's runs of map05, they run across the pillars just fine

Edited June 16, 2021 by roadworx

[Lucky_Edie]

1 hour ago, roadworx said:

please go watch arbys' or ancalagon's runs of map05, they run across the pillars just fine

 

MrZzul's reality (no damage taken) demo is a perfect example. (killer5 on dsda)

 

2 hours ago, MajorRawne said:

But I respectfully disagree about that map. The pillars you need to jump between are placed in such a way that you can't simply run across them, there are always one or two pillars offset to the side so you'll fall if you need to move quickly.

 

This is standard practice for platforming as it forces you to turn/move quickly, generally called W key/fast platforming as just holding down W is enough to beat it. Best example of this style is sunder map11

Edited June 16, 2021 by Lucky_Edie

[MajorRawne]

There is only one way to resolve this difference of opinion: the game of champions.

 

 

 

[NuMetalManiak]

One that doesn't get mentioned often, but immediately comes to mind for me, is Aeternum MAP01. This is a BRUTAL starting map for me, there's a ton of exposure right off the bat and little places to hide away from. Even to this day this set gives me more challenge than Skillsaw's other sets.

[continuum.mid]

MAP13: Suicidal Tendencies and MAP18: Lake Poison from Alien Vendetta. Satisfying, but damn were they hard.

 

MAP15 also forced me to drop down to HMP when I was playing Scythe 2.

[Yumheart]

I've only recently started dipping my toes into harder mapsets, so my picks probably won't be very interesting, but for me it'd be Scythe's Fire and Ice, Scythe 2's Whispering Winds and The Inmost Dens III & Beyond the Sea from HR2.

[Daerik]

5 hours ago, MajorRawne said:

The pillars you need to jump between are placed in such a way that you can't simply run across them, there are always one or two pillars offset to the side so you'll fall if you need to move quickly. Bear in mind you are being attacked by distant Pain Elementals while having to do this, which in itself could be considered a troll move.

 

Spend 10 seconds watching any good player play the map and your entire perspective gets proven wrong.

[Taw Tu'lki]

In my childhood it was an E3M7 from DooM.

[KeaganDunn]

I'd probably say the hardest map I've completed so far is Sunder MAP19 (with saves, of course). 20x7 MAP05 on all difficulties and Sunlust MAP25 could be contenders.

Various platforming maps like the ones from Frog and Toad would also be contenders, but those are of completely different gameplay.

 

Spoiler

I sincerely hope this thread does not get flooded with elitist gatekeepers protecting their precious favorite maps that they have a world record UV-Max run on

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Dunn (& Dunn)

[Clippy]

Bloodbath on UV by this guy ^^^