CONCEPT : Speedrun Focused Wad

[Biz!]

So, I would like to make a speedrun focused megawad with a time limit, thoughts on the idea?

[Walter confetti]

Make something based upon one of the game quirks, similar to what was done with Cyberdreams and Arch-vile Jump? Like a voodoo dolls based levels?

[Dragonfly]

I would like to see more mapsets enforce this kind of play style - it's a bit hard to do in a way that's fair for more casual players who want the experience, but hard enough for the skilled players to enjoy. This was more or less the core concept behind my megawad Skulldash - but with a few added bells and whistles to make it a bit more than just a "You have to play fast" limitation. :)

[GarrettChan]

TBH, I personally would say you need to do some speedrun yourself before knowing which is which...

[RDETalus]

A time limited door for each level? Some kind of tall lift with texture that denotes amount of time left that is constantly scrolling through the level?

["JL" was too short]

Wasn't this basically the idea behind Scythe 1?  Probably been enough time that we could use another one.

 

Dragonfly's concern about fairness to casual players would be my main concern as well.  If you went with GZDoom I'm sure you could script something up to make the timer more lenient or possibly remove it entirely on the lower difficulty levels, or as a menu option, etc.  But this would of course disqualify it from the sorts of competitive speedrunning that are based on demos.  This may or may not be a problem for you; it's possible you just want to make individual players test their capabilities and enjoy a different kind of challenge.  Like Skulldash did, really.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

9 minutes ago, jerrysheppy said:

Wasn't this basically the idea behind Scythe 1

I don't think so, the WAD is just action-packed, not speedrun-focused. The only map that need to be finished fast would be MAP28: Run From It.

["JL" was too short]

23 minutes ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

I don't think so, the WAD is just action-packed, not speedrun-focused. The only map that need to be finished fast would be MAP28: Run From It.

 

From what I recall there were speedrun tricks specifically included in some of the levels.  Like one of the levels had a pit specifically set up with torches to wallrun across (in vanilla).  It's been a while though.

Edited June 23, 2021 by jerrysheppy
wallrun != wallglide

[Roofi]

Make a prison map and you have to do a non-guided glide between the bars to escape your cell.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

7 minutes ago, jerrysheppy said:

 

From what I recall there were speedrun tricks specifically included in some of the levels.  Like one of the levels had a pit specifically set up with torches to wallglide across (in vanilla).  It's been a while though.

While it's true that many of Scythe 1's map designs encourage various speedrunning techniques, what you seem to have implied in your first comment that Scythe focuses on the "getting out of each map as fast as possible" concept is pretty wrong, in my opinion.

["JL" was too short]

I guess we can split hairs about what exactly tips a wad from 'not speedrun focused' to 'speedrun focused'.  I will say that, to my understanding, Scythe was significantly closer to speedrun-focused than a typical megawad, and leave it at that.

[Alfonzo]

I'd like to see some speedy heavyweights weigh in on the viability of ideas like this. How many successful speedrunner-focused mapsets or games are there? My sense has always been that games in which broken, blithe or oblivious design allows for the discovery of routes and tricks are the ones that this corner of the community is most attracted to. Breaking your silly game is catnip, whereas baking tricks into the design of the map and then scrupulously testing it to modern standards so that there's no choice but to abide by the rules removes the discovery angle that helps to cultivate a healthy scene at the outset.

 

The developers of Doom 2 The Way id Did were cognizant of the possibility of speedrunning, but the happy medium we discovered was our Leave It In™ policy—the agreement that we wouldn't remove most of the game-breaking shit we saw for the purposes of speedrunning instead of actively making technically demanding bits.

 

That said I think it's an interesting idea! I just wonder the extent to which it would need to be a precise science, or if it even needs to be to compete with the most active arenas. As an experiment it could be neat.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Alfonzo
grammar

[DSC]

What about Swift Death? I believe it was made with speedrunning in mind.

[Biodegradable]

The was Supercharged Triathlon from a while back.

[Horus]

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/noye

[GarrettChan]

6 hours ago, jerrysheppy said:

Wasn't this basically the idea behind Scythe 1?  Probably been enough time that we could use another one.

 

Dragonfly's concern about fairness to casual players would be my main concern as well.

 

No, only Scythe 1 map requires a bit of speedrunning skill is Map28. Other than that, none of them requires speedrunning skills.

 

To be honest, there are many good maps out there that is not fair to casual players, so that's not a very big concern, not to mention if you're doing it on Boom, you have a lot of ways to tweak your difficulty on HMP/HNTR. When you have some specific concept design, you just prepare to lose some audience. That's it. I thought OP did a lot of things, however, almost none of them actually came out, so I don't know what's up with that and how meaningful this thread is.

 

The actual problem here is, what's fun and what's not fun with a time limit. The solution to this is asking some speedrunners as playtesters, but in the mean time, if you don't do speedrun yourself, you have no idea what's up with speedrun. Many people just think speedrun in a wrong way and they thought they know a lot about it, but it's just not. Similarly, people always think slaughtermap is A, but actually slaughtermap is completely not A.

[boatboat]

Didn't Supercharged Triathlon, by Helm do something like this? I rather like his interpretation. (EDIT) biodegradable already posted this i cannot read

Edited June 23, 2021 by boatboat