Minor Doomworld suggestions (splitting up "Wads & Mods")

[Xeriphas1994]

6 hours ago, Lüt said:

 

the DoomWiki should host its own staff directory, if it doesn't already

 

Wiki community > Administrators in the left sidebar. If you don't use the default skin, it's also linked from other places like the help directory and FAQ.

 

Since it's a wiki, anyone can hide a post and leave a note for the other user or a mod, even without logging in. So we're always hoping people feel empowered to do that (but if you honestly have no clue what the next step is, then yes, do ask).

[baja blast rd.]

If there is a three-way split to Wads & Mods, Releases should be the primary forum imo because that is what most people come to Wads and Mods for, and its primary selling point, and it also accounts for most of its content (when you consider everything down from Big Projects to humble one-map standalone releases). You don't want that to be more inconvenient to reach. 

[Doomkid]

That actually does make perfect sense to me conceptually.

 

Pretty much the sole reason I've been a proponent of the method in my mock-up screenshots is because of the way the forum software looks: the "sub-forums" are actually really prominent right at the top, so if "wad releases" was the main forum/umbrella, when people clicked it, they'd actually be primarily greeted with the "general wad discussion" and "wad development" sub-forums first and foremost at the top of the screen, and then have to scroll down to the actual releases.

 

In an odd way, the "main" wads&mods forum may actually appear to be the lower priority forum of the 3 (from a visual perspective), which is why I thought maybe the main one should be the "general wad discussion" one.

 

On paper, it of course makes more sense that releases (aka the "most important" one) should be the main one, but simply because of the visual aspect of how this software works, I kinda thought having "releases" and "development" as the subforums that'll be right at the top of the screen actually kinda elevates them. Kind of in the same way that stickying a thread elevates it, but even more prominent than that. Does that make sense?

 

The way I see it might not be how most people see it though - really, I'm content with whatever way is the clearest/most accessible to the largest number of people, I'm by no means married to one approach or the other. It may well be the case that I'm just an oddball and I'm giving too much weight to the "subforums" being displayed at the top as it does with Doom Editing right now.

 

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I think having "wad releases" as the main forum makes sense. If having to scroll past the 2 subforums is too inconvenient... that person is really damn lazy!

[Chris Hansen]

@Doomkid I like the example you made earlier with the image. I think it makes perfect sense. There's a thing to considder maybe and that's how different we are when it comes to reading content here. Me, I'm not that advanced. I go to doomworld.com and scan the right side to see what's popular now. Then I go to General and then Wads & Mods to check out what's new and read stuff I find interesting. Sometimes I head over to Editing.

 

But I know there are some who use the built-in features like the "unread content". And there might be other approaches I'm not aware of.

 

TL:DR I don't personally mind, that I have to visit "Wads main", then "Wad releases" and then "Wads in progress". In fact, if I'm in a hurry and in the mood to play something then I can just directly click "Wad releases" the second I load doomworld.com.

 

I hope you understand what I mean. It can be a little difficult for me to explain in English :)

[Redneckerz]

9 hours ago, Lüt said:

Late response, but we've actually been addressing a number of the topics raised here, so now to reply to a few specific points...

Well we have been talking behind closed doors already for quite some time now so this post comes as no surprise, but it is good that it is laid out. The custom titles were a starting sign for more discussions and changes along the road.

 

No matter the outcome, i want to thank you for laying it all out in front for the rest. Disagreements will be made, but most important is how to go forward. Criticism in that regard is ever the more important as it signals what pitfalls to avoid.

 

My /2cents:

Quote

Expansion of WADs & Mods:

Favoring a three-way split like most others have yet said. And i said with @rd. here - Releases should be the frontrunner of this train, on the notion that this is where all the high quality finished stuff will appear for discussion and debate. It would also have the benefit of making it easier to scour through for the Cacoward team as information is more condensed rather than scattered out.

• Development: this would clearly be made for in-progress WADs (And perhaps one could rejuvenate the old Wads in Progress moniker that once was a thriving review site. It certainly would attract with a catchy name.) As soon as something is finished/up at /idgames, either that thread should move to Releases, or the author should make one for the Releases forum. I am not sure however how to smoothen this releaseflow however: The first option would require additional coding/maintenance because how are you going to know when a WAD is finished (I am thinking about wildcards in words or an idgames link as referential point) to automate it, the second would require additional author interaction. A dillemma.
• Discussion: This would clearly be about every and any WAD that has been either released or in progress, though i can see overlap happening with threads in Releases, which will inevitably be used for discussion aswell (Albeit focussed on the WAD in question). So Discussion would be a more general forum for WAD's, id reckon.
• Another note on releases: If it is to feature release candidates and beta's, i would suggest handling that the way it is currently done: In the same thread. If separate threads are made for one and the same WAD in Releases itself it would clutter the Releases forum. Such candidates would be better suited to Development if you ask me.

Quote

Location and contents of sticky threads will be refactored when the new forum arrangement rolls out.

 

Because you're right, topic placement is rather haphazard at the moment.

The primary pitfall here in my eyes is that sticky threads are not distinctive enough to discern between what is a sticky and a regular thread. I know icons separate them, but in a quick glance, they are very easy to overlook. Perhaps using colors similar to the Like's can be implemented? Like variants on the Doom torches in different colours on the left? It would make them easily identifiable.

Quote

That way you can find things like Raven games projects or deathmatch mapsets without needing dedicated topical forums for each of them, since that would quickly get to be too much subforum clutter.

One thing i would absolutely love to see as an extension to the search (Which has been absolutely brilliant, i must add. Its a editor's dream.) is this:

 

A attachment browser.

 

Many many users add in attachments of files and never remove them. Often these posts (Its difficult to search for an attachment through posts alone) contain interesting attachments that will be lost to time.  Stuff like the Mooditor, a 2003 level editor, survives, because of its attachment in a DoomWorld post.

 

Attachments work around ID's. I was able to gauge how many active ID's exist, but some sort of browser for attachments (Preferably where instead of the link itself, it shows the name of the attachment you are about to download) would be most beneficial in archiving DoomWorld's content. However, i am aware that this is not something to switch on or off and likely requires coding. Nevertheless i am throwing this into the suggestions jar because of the instant benefits such a browser would have for both community members aswell as archivists and editors.

 

DoomWorld plays host to 20+ years of content. Many of its sub-sites still work. Every attachment posted still has a high chance of being retrievable. That compendium of content would benefit on being more easily accessible.

Quote

 

Also, one other thing:

 

Regardless of the final setup, it's going to take some effort to move all the topics accordingly, therefore I decided to bring in some aid from one of our most prominent and helpful members. For those of you who don't follow status updates, say hi to @Doomkid, our newest Super Moderator!

 

Staff visibility:

I agree that lack of clarity regarding who's on staff has been a problem, but the staff directory needs some work before properly publishing it.

In the time being, could a Staff button be made in a drop down menu underneath Forums? If not just for the sake of being easier to access rather than being incomplete. From time to time there are threads and posts asking for who the staff members are and if you don't have that particular page bookmarked, you will be looking forever.

 

Even when incomplete it yields a good starting point for any member to contact the staff.

Quote

Ban visibility:

 

This is one of a few primary communication failures we have, but also unfortunately one we can do little about.

I don't have the impression DoomWorld moderators are involved in issuing shadowbans or constructions that appear similar to it. If anything else, their power is in the aforementioned Warning system where they explain the warning. It is a good system because warning points fade away over time and aren't held in the back of the staff's mind. It is used for what it is for: A sign.

 

However i agree that banned people are practically invisible and impossible to find out whether one is or isn't banned.  I understand from your explanation that an automatic system would be a lot of effort, and staff manually adjusting titles post-ban to make it visible for others that someone is banned seems like extra legwork on a position i imagine already takes a certain amount of effort for judging reports alone.

Suggestion:

Perhaps greying out might be an idea - Putting an automatic cross on a users avatar saying Banned when someone is, in fact, banned. Many forums use that, or cross out the username when someone is banned - Both being visual cues for other members to distinguish a banned member from a active one. I feel that should be the key point here - A visual cue.

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Other stuff:

While we've pretty much accepted that DW's days as a news site are over, these other things could be addressed in an eventual FAQ.

In addition to what you have quoted - Stuff like The /newstuff chronicles, primarily. Initatives like @Endless's Wadazine show that there is a huge commitment and interest in reviewing new WADS, /newstuff was that place for many, many years. Perhaps a /newstuff chronicles: BFG Edition could be created, utilizing knowledge from the Wadazine crew, Onemandoom's Kmexii, and others? /Newstuff in my eyes did a lot to define DoomWorld.

Quote

As much as we want to support the wiki, listing another site's staff directory on our own site's staff directory seems a little outside of our territory.

 

We could make a DoomWiki Editor usergroup, and that would show under a person's username on their profile and hover-over info in the same way that Super Moderator or Administrator does for those groups, but the question that follows is how many other groups from how many other sites could ask for the same treatment? And after that, who would manage the changes as group members come and go? (To partially answer that, usergroup assignments are an Administrator privilege, so we couldn't set up some kind of "group leader" that could assign other users to the usergroup - at least, not without some custom coding to the forum software.)

As much as i am for that idea of a usergroup, managing the changes could be either a job for someone who already has moderator duties over here (Such as Quasar), or maybe Gez.

 

Some kind of baseline of elligibility in such a group would be useful there, and perhaps DoomWiki's Editor's list could be used for that. Editors are handpicked by higher ups and could be used to do the same in a usergroup on DW. Editor's have shown to make multiple edits of significance and are active enough to be part of that list. As the Editor's List is already maintained there, so could a DoomWorld usergroup be.

 

But that's my opinion. I would like to know how @Quasar or @Xymph see this.

Quote

Oi, are you seriously complaining when you still haven't fixed black-on-black and white-on-white style elements? >:(

 

3 hours ago, Xaser said:

 

Find somebody else. I'm not going to deal with y'all's complete lack of basic communication any longer.

Errr... I feel there is more turmoil floating underwater than what is now written on the surface on this one, this might be an issue left delegated to private matters?

Edited July 26, 2021 by Redneckerz

[baja blast rd.]

2 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

My /2cents:

[Expansion W&M]

 

The planned split is something like: 

 

Releases: releases, RCs, "release-like" betas (author's choice, pretty much) ... My First Maps (no elitism about the level of experience, polish, or substance required for something to be in releases) 

Development: WIP projects, alphas, betas, speedrunning events before they are compiled, community projects and activities in progress, etc.

Discussion: DWMC, Ironman, the organized review threads, help me find wads like ____, etc. 

 

2 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

[thread moves]

the second would require additional author interaction. A dilemma

 

Requesting a move can be done with well under a minute of extra interaction, which is one of the simpler things someone can do while managing a project. 

[Xaser]

2 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

Errr... I feel there is more turmoil floating underwater than what is now written on the surface on this one, this might be an issue left delegated to private matters?

 

Not really -- tl;dr I haven't heard a peep from anyone on DW staff (aside from one DM about an unrelated matter), then suddenly "hey why haven't you fixed this thing we didn't ask you to fix!?!?!" -- unfortunately it's been this way ever since I got roped into fixing the site, and I'm all out of patience.

 

It's shitty 'cause all the recent happenings (new batch of moderators, Lüt taking an active role and fixing stuff) have been great for DW, and here I am being a raincloud -- hopefully it's just me and other folks involved aren't tearing their hair out over similar things, but either way, geez.

[Deadwing]

29 minutes ago, rd. said:

 

The planned split is something like: 

 

Releases: releases, RCs, "release-like" betas (author's choice, pretty much) ... My First Maps (no elitism about the level of experience, polish, or substance required for something to be in releases) 

Development: WIP projects, alphas, betas, speedrunning events before they are compiled, community projects and activities in progress, etc.

Discussion: DWMC, Ironman, the organized review threads, help me find wads like ____, etc. 

 

 

Requesting a move can be done with well under a minute of extra interaction, which is one of the simpler things someone can do while managing a project. 

 

This would be awesome, imo

[VanaheimRanger]

On 6/26/2021 at 5:32 AM, Wavy said:

A suggestion that I'd make (though I wouldn't consider it "minor") are to add signatures

Personally I don't think it would look good and would disrupt the flow of conversation while reading, It's one of the reasons I dislike most forums online but love Doomworld.  Also, the recent change to custom titles is a pretty good replacement for signatures imo.

[Wavy]

10 minutes ago, VanaheimRanger said:

Personally I don't think it would look good and would disrupt the flow of conversation while reading, It's one of the reasons I dislike most forums online but love Doomworld.

Fair enough. Maybe there should be way for users to hide them (if Doomworld had signatures of course).

 

11 minutes ago, VanaheimRanger said:

Also, the recent change to custom titles is a pretty good replacement for signatures imo.

Agreed. It adds some nice and needed personalisation and is enough for me.

[Xymph]

15 hours ago, Redneckerz said:

As much as i am for that idea of a usergroup, managing the changes could be either a job for someone who already has moderator duties over here (Such as Quasar), or maybe Gez.

 

Some kind of baseline of elligibility in such a group would be useful there, and perhaps DoomWiki's Editor's list could be used for that. Editors are handpicked by higher ups and could be used to do the same in a usergroup on DW. Editor's have shown to make multiple edits of significance and are active enough to be part of that list. As the Editor's List is already maintained there, so could a DoomWorld usergroup be.

 

But that's my opinion. I would like to know how @Quasar or @Xymph see this.

I don't consider myself a Doomworld forums regular and I have no opinion on user groups. Just correcting the note above: wiki editors are auto-promoted. Only admins are hand-picked and only a few of those are active. So manual maintenance duties for them here are probably not such a great idea.

[Polri]

A few ideas:

 

- have a few dedicated threads for general discussions about the iwads ("Doom 1: general discussion", "TNT Evilution: general discussion", "Monsters: general discussion" etc), and encourage people to post in those threads instead of starting new threads to ask: "who else thinks Downtown should have an SSG?".

- in the same vein: if released wads get their separate subsection, it should be ok to bump these threads whenever you have something to say or ask about them. So instead of starting a new thread to discuss "finding the secret exit in map 15 of Ancient Aliens", just post it in the Ancient Aliens release thread. (bumping dead or dormant progress threads is something completely else, stay away from those if you just want to ask: "any progress on btsx ep-3? :) " 

- maybe a dedicated subsection for review threads (endless, not jabba, dean of doom companion thread...)?

[Xeriphas1994]

7 hours ago, Xymph said:

manual maintenance duties

 

The data is public and even part of the API, so if someone is determined to have such a list, they can aggregate it themselves into a text file or a post or wherever. (I recall Ling not being a fan of scripted posting but that was years ago.) No mod approval needed. :>

[TheNoob_Gamer]

6 hours ago, Polri said:

have a few dedicated threads for general discussions about the iwads

Having dedicated threads is probably not a good idea, multiple topics being discussed at once would probably look confusing as hell. If your question involves the creation of a poll, a standalone thread is probably better.

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by TheNoob_Gamer

[Lüt]

On 7/26/2021 at 5:24 AM, TheNoob_Gamer said:

I see. Appreciate your response regarding the subforum, I have always felt it's a bit of wasted opportunity to see such a subforum in relative inactivity.

 

True, but that low level of activity tends to happen to forums that also have a dedicated Discord server, and EE's can be quite lively at times.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 5:35 AM, Doomkid said:

I think this is a good idea, though I'm not sure exactly how to word the poll, and I'm worried it will be a bit of a mess considering the size of the thread already. I'll leave that in Lüt's court for the moment, if he wants to add a poll I welcome it.

 

I'm also not sure how I'd word the poll, plus it would be coming rather late into the thread's development.

 

More to the point, large organizational issues like these are where I'm more interested in sound reasoning than popular vote, so I'd rather read arguments than tally preferences.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 5:37 AM, Horus said:

Thanks Lüt for the very extensive reply, much appreciated!

 

One thing I'm wondering is, what would the 'Discussion' subforum contain exactly?

 

Sure, no problem.

 

"Discussion" basically translates to "Current WADs & Mods minus release and development threads."

 

On 7/26/2021 at 6:49 AM, Horus said:

Was a 3-way split without nesting anything discussed? Because I do see rd's point about nested forums

 

I had initially said that 3 main forums seemed excessive for what would essentially be 1 forum in 3 parts, particularly because we already have a 3-part forum model in the form of Doom Editing, therefore using the same 3-part model for another 3-part forum would be consistent and familiar. But I'm not uncompromising on that stance.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 9:09 AM, omalefico32x said:

@Lüt i didnt mean to use shadow banning as the common meaning of the word i saw a lot of people refearing to non public bans as it here so i though that was just some community jargon and it was bad on my part i should have used another word to describe it but now i can see why some menbers are flagged as banned and some arent

 

No it's fine, I know you may not have meant it in the common meaning, but you're far from the only person I've heard say that we do this, so I just used that quote as an opportunity to address the topic in general.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 9:09 AM, omalefico32x said:

i guess to do it automatically would require some kind of redesign on the back end of the site right?

 

Something like that. It might even be easy, but I have no clue about web design beyond basic HTML5, so I'm not the one to talk to about that.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 11:21 AM, Xaser said:

Find somebody else. I'm not going to deal with y'all's complete lack of basic communication any longer.

 

Heh, well that much is true, but... work in progress :P

 

Anyway, the gag was a demand for timeliness coming from somebody who's largely been absent for years and who runs the 2nd-most-delayed project in Doomworld history - the joke was meant to be on me, so sorry it failed and landed in the wrong place.

 

tbh I didn't even know if you still had access, I wasn't actually expecting anything. (Though we did mention it to you on Discord when you first started fixing styles a few years ago, but it's understandable if that was long forgotten.)

 

As for Questions, you're right about people using the forum as if it were any other standard-threaded forum rather than its intended answer-only format, but I'm not sure if that totally undermines the voting system. Best Answers are a thing Ling wanted to encourage, and I don't really change anything that Ling sets a specific way. Gez had already mentioned the resorting option, so there wasn't anything else for me to say on the subject.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 7:57 AM, printz said:

I would like the user status updates to be shown on the forum front page again.

 

Another one of Ling's decisions, so you'd have to appeal to him.

 

For now, people can use the Status Updates feed that rd showed.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 11:45 AM, rd. said:

If there is a three-way split to Wads & Mods, Releases should be the primary forum imo because that is what most people come to Wads and Mods for, and its primary selling point, and it also accounts for most of its content (when you consider everything down from Big Projects to humble one-map standalone releases).

On 7/26/2021 at 12:15 PM, Doomkid said:

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I think having "wad releases" as the main forum makes sense. 

On 7/26/2021 at 2:30 PM, Redneckerz said:

And i said with @rd. here - Releases should be the frontrunner of this train, on the notion that this is where all the high quality finished stuff will appear for discussion and debate.

 

So, agree on "Releases = primary" being sensible, but one last thing: remember that the main forum likely wouldn't have a subtitle, and would simply be called "WADs & Mods."

 

For example, if the main forum was titled "WADs & Mods - Releases," then it would be the logical conclusion that the nested forum structure would imply that the other 2 subforums are further expansions of the "Releases" topic, and not something else entirely; therefore, different/specialized types of releases, rather than non-release topics.

 

And alternatively, if it were still titled "WADs & Mods" but now only limited to releases, people who'd been using it for months or years would have to adapt to the new format and adjust their posting habits accordingly. It's nothing insurmountable, but I have a nagging vision of months of "whoops, posted in the wrong forum again" edits to new topics if this were the case.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 2:30 PM, Redneckerz said:

As soon as something is finished/up at /idgames, either that thread should move to Releases, or the author should make one for the Releases forum. I am not sure however how to smoothen this releaseflow however: The first option would require additional coding/maintenance because how are you going to know when a WAD is finished (I am thinking about wildcards in words or an idgames link as referential point) to automate it, the second would require additional author interaction. A dillemma.

 

That could probably be left to the thread author. If they want to start a new topic for the final release, fine - that's easiest for us. If they want to request their topic be moved, they can do it with the "report post" function - there's an option that says "this comment is ok, but I want to tell a mod about it," and that can be used for the move request. Thread length could play a role in the ideal decision as well.

 

In the first scenario, I might want to look into a way to have members be able to close their own threads, but only for that single forum.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 2:30 PM, Redneckerz said:

Another note on releases: If it is to feature release candidates and beta's, i would suggest handling that the way it is currently done: In the same thread. If separate threads are made for one and the same WAD in Releases itself it would clutter the Releases forum.

 

Definitely agree on this, and that would be a point to emphasize in the upcoming instructional sticky thread.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 2:30 PM, Redneckerz said:

The primary pitfall here in my eyes is that sticky threads are not distinctive enough to discern between what is a sticky and a regular thread. I know icons separate them, but in a quick glance, they are very easy to overlook. Perhaps using colors similar to the Like's can be implemented?

 

Can be looked into, but if it's not a readily available setting then it'll probably be a low priority adjustment.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 2:30 PM, Redneckerz said:

A attachment browser. [...] i am aware that this is not something to switch on or off and likely requires coding.

 

A quick browse through attachment and search settings says your awareness is spot-on.

 

It's a useful idea, and I'd flick it on if it were an option. But it doesn't appear to be, so until somebody decides to code it, I'm afraid categorizing attachments has to be done the hard way.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 2:30 PM, Redneckerz said:

In the time being, could a Staff button be made in a drop down menu underneath Forums?

 

It could be, but it'll be on the main menu soon enough, so best to hold out a little bit longer.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 2:30 PM, Redneckerz said:

However i agree that banned people are practically invisible and impossible to find out whether one is or isn't banned. [...] Perhaps greying out might be an idea - Putting an automatic cross on a users avatar saying Banned when someone is, in fact, banned. Many forums use that, or cross out the username when someone is banned - Both being visual cues for other members to distinguish a banned member from a active one. I feel that should be the key point here - A visual cue.

 

Those are possible options, but they're a part of usergroup settings and not a thing that can be applied by the warning system, which takes it back to moderators not being able to adjust usergroups.

 

On 7/26/2021 at 2:30 PM, Redneckerz said:

In addition to what you have quoted - Stuff like The /newstuff chronicles, primarily. Initatives like @Endless's Wadazine show that there is a huge commitment and interest in reviewing new WADS, /newstuff was that place for many, many years. Perhaps a /newstuff chronicles: BFG Edition could be created, utilizing knowledge from the Wadazine crew, Onemandoom's Kmexii, and others? /Newstuff in my eyes did a lot to define DoomWorld.

 

Up to the people who ran it in the first place, but if you browse their posts on the subject, you can gather all the reasons they have no intention of bringing it back.

 

What it really should be is a functional downloads section with an up-to-date "What's New" listing that anybody can add their reviews to. It just depends at what point that may be fixed.

 

On 7/27/2021 at 12:19 PM, Polri said:

- in the same vein: if released wads get their separate subsection, it should be ok to bump these threads whenever you have something to say or ask about them. So instead of starting a new thread to discuss "finding the secret exit in map 15 of Ancient Aliens", just post it in the Ancient Aliens release thread.

 

Agree with this. I was already planning to write "1 release, 1 thread" into the sticky thread, along with saying that duplicate threads for the same release would be merged. As long as the bumps are relevant to the release, they should be fine.

 

On 7/27/2021 at 12:19 PM, Polri said:

- maybe a dedicated subsection for review threads (endless, not jabba, dean of doom companion thread...)?

 

That's basically what the general discussion forum would be for. I suppose somebody could make a review thread index if they wanted, but I don't think there's enough of those topics to warrant anything more than that.

[Chip]

Is it possible for the forums to allow members to delete their own posts? Sometimes I write something I felt wasn't necessary and I feel weird reporting it to Mods. 

 

Also, a very minor suggestion, but I have TERRIBLE Wi-fi, and sometimes I upload much too large images, and I have to wait until it's fully uploaded to delete the image from the post. I was wondering if it was possible for images to be deleted mid-upload so I wouldn't have to wait 2 minutes to finally get to delete it. I don't know if this is an issue I just have, so I guess if others don't have the issue, it isn't necessary to fix it. 

 

Finally, I was wondering if it was possible for members to pin a post or status update on their profile page. I'm proud of a few topics I've made, and I would like people to see them immediately when they visit my page. 

 

Thank you for reading these suggestions. I'm not sure if any of them are possible, but I'm happy that whoever read this took their time to look through it. :D

[baja blast rd.]

Just now, Chip said:

I feel weird reporting it to Mods

 

At least for now, please don't feel weird about that, it's not annoying at all. 

[roadworx]

3 minutes ago, Lüt said:

What it really should be is a functional downloads section with an up-to-date "What's New" listing that anybody can add their reviews to. It just depends at what point that may be fixed.

so, time for the obligatory question (and pls don't hurt me for asking this, i know this must've been asked a million times before): what're the prospects of that ever being fixed at all? the amount of time it's been screwed up gives me - and obviously many others - little hope that it's ever gonna be fixed. i've always just assumed it's something that you guys can't really control to begin with and has to do with shitty invision software, but i really don't know any of the technical details

 

3 minutes ago, Chip said:

Is it possible for the forums to allow members to delete their own posts? Sometimes I write something I felt wasn't necessary and I feel weird reporting it to Mods.

i feel like this'd be a bit of a controversial topic - not in the sense that it'd cause heated debate or anything, but cuz i think people would be really split on it

[Decay]

Maybe a small window for deleting your own post (like, 10 minutes or something) otherwise it's pretty ripe for forum vandalism by disgruntled members.

 

Anyway maybe I missed it, but why going the subforum route and not just making it it's own category? Something like...

 

Classic doom:

-general discussion

-console

-source ports

 

Wads and mods

- releases

- development

- editing

- discussion

 

newfangled doom (keep as is)

 

special interest

-speed running

-multiplayer

-creative

-eternity

-freedoom

 

Wads in the development section could be moved to releases once they reach that state (in subforums they would have to be moved anyway...), this keeps things pretty up front and easy for people to access.

[omx32x]

one thing i always though about can we make doom general not being tied to classic doom? doom 3 and new doom section barely see any action here and i feel like the sections should be only dedicated for stuff like mods, editing, source ports etc and doom general for any doom discussion not only classic doom

i know most are here for classic doom but at the end this is doomworld the biggest doom forum out there not just the biggest classic doom forum

[Chip]

3 minutes ago, omalefico32x said:

doom 3 and new doom section barely see any action here

there are over 150,000 posts in the Newfangled DOOM section. I like it as is. Doom General concerns games made in the ID Tech 1 engine, while the other forums are for games made in other engines. 

[Redneckerz]

On 7/26/2021 at 11:35 PM, rd. said:

 

The planned split is something like: 

 

Releases: releases, RCs, "release-like" betas (author's choice, pretty much) ... My First Maps (no elitism about the level of experience, polish, or substance required for something to be in releases) 

Development: WIP projects, alphas, betas, speedrunning events before they are compiled, community projects and activities in progress, etc.

Discussion: DWMC, Ironman, the organized review threads, help me find wads like ____, etc. 

That seems about right. The release-like beta's will be a challenge because whilst i am fairly certain seasoned authors know what to do, starters will more than likely release multiple iterations of the same near-final map set.

On 7/26/2021 at 11:35 PM, rd. said:

Requesting a move can be done with well under a minute of extra interaction, which is one of the simpler things someone can do while managing a project. 

I suspect this particular bit will go in a FAQ to help starters out, based on the above.
 

On 7/27/2021 at 1:17 PM, Xymph said:

I don't consider myself a Doomworld forums regular and I have no opinion on user groups. Just correcting the note above: wiki editors are auto-promoted. Only admins are hand-picked and only a few of those are active. So manual maintenance duties for them here are probably not such a great idea.

Christ i almost forgot. Yeah, you get auto-promotion after adhering to a few rules.

 

Well, i guess for the time being ill stick to the custom title as is.

1 hour ago, Lüt said:

So, agree on "Releases = primary" being sensible, but one last thing: remember that the main forum likely wouldn't have a subtitle, and would simply be called "WADs & Mods."

Alongside what rd. suggested, ill concide with this. I guess its a matter of putting theory into practice, and the same goes for authors making new threads in releases - See my comment to rd. above, to save on length of this reply.

1 hour ago, Lüt said:

In the first scenario, I might want to look into a way to have members be able to close their own threads, but only for that single forum.

That could be a good idea. Abuse of such a feature could be easily catched by a section moderator or a global moderator who reads the report.

1 hour ago, Lüt said:

Definitely agree on this, and that would be a point to emphasize in the upcoming instructional sticky thread.

Great. Gotta keep your sanity after all :D

1 hour ago, Lüt said:

Can be looked into, but if it's not a readily available setting then it'll probably be a low priority adjustment.

It could even be something the forum software allows you to do, and it does not matter what the distinction is, as long as there is one. Anything to make staff and stickied posts and threads stick out for newer users is a good one.

1 hour ago, Lüt said:

 

A quick browse through attachment and search settings says your awareness is spot-on.

 

It's a useful idea, and I'd flick it on if it were an option. But it doesn't appear to be, so until somebody decides to code it, I'm afraid categorizing attachments has to be done the hard way.

>:( crap. Is this something that could work through the DoomWorld API that powers the /idgames backlog or is it completely separate from it?

 

I am actually surprised a search database of this hasn't been attempted yet, but converting it to readable format is probably the challenge here.

1 hour ago, Lüt said:

Those are possible options, but they're a part of usergroup settings and not a thing that can be applied by the warning system, which takes it back to moderators not being able to adjust usergroups.

Hmm, that puts in a rather significant limitation... and it seems to be of the same manner as to have visual cues for staff posts and stickied threads. Well, you can't create what can't be made. But the idea is atleast there :)

1 hour ago, Lüt said:

Up to the people who ran it in the first place, but if you browse their posts on the subject, you can gather all the reasons they have no intention of bringing it back.

 

What it really should be is a functional downloads section with an up-to-date "What's New" listing that anybody can add their reviews to. It just depends at what point that may be fixed.

Were these people (Bloodshedder and co) approached by folks like Endless? Because if that ain't happening, then ofcourse the What's new is the next thing.

 

I dunno, perhaps i just want Wadazine to be part of DW more than others, haha.
.

 

[TheNoob_Gamer]

On 7/29/2021 at 11:36 PM, Lüt said:

So, agree on "Releases = primary" being sensible, but one last thing: remember that the main forum likely wouldn't have a subtitle, and would simply be called "WADs & Mods."

Late reply, but I'm curious. When will the WAD and Mods split update arrive?

[cybdmn]

On 6/27/2021 at 9:37 AM, Pegg said:

Raven games need their own wad sub-forum. It is nearly impossible to find new ones unless you watch the wad subforum like a hawk or know every single released wad on the archive already.

 

I would suggest "other games", to include Strife into such a sub-forum.

 

[Pixel Fiend]

"Wads", "Mods" and "In Progress" could simply have flairs of different colour. That would eliminate the hassle of having to move threads around.

[baja blast rd.]

4 hours ago, game said:

... the hassle of having to move threads around.

 

It wouldn't be that much of a hassle because not really that many threads a month go from WIPs (uncompiled, rough beta) to "release," and they are only moved once for that.  

[Lüt]

On 7/29/2021 at 11:48 AM, Chip said:

Is it possible for the forums to allow members to delete their own posts? Sometimes I write something I felt wasn't necessary and I feel weird reporting it to Mods.

On 7/29/2021 at 12:03 PM, Decay said:

Maybe a small window for deleting your own post (like, 10 minutes or something)

 

It's possible to allow deletion of posts, but unfortunately a time window can only be set for editing posts. 10 minutes for content deletion is sensible, and if it were an option, I would enable it.

 

On 7/29/2021 at 11:48 AM, Chip said:

Also, a very minor suggestion, but I have TERRIBLE Wi-fi, and sometimes I upload much too large images, and I have to wait until it's fully uploaded to delete the image from the post. I was wondering if it was possible for images to be deleted mid-upload so I wouldn't have to wait 2 minutes to finally get to delete it. I don't know if this is an issue I just have, so I guess if others don't have the issue, it isn't necessary to fix it.

 

Sorry, but there's no further options available beyond "Can Delete Attachments."

 

You could try navigating away from the page to cancel the upload, but you might risk losing any written content as well.

 

Beyond that, a "Cancel Upload" button would have to be added manually. So for now, you'll just have to be cautious when uploading your images.

 

On 7/29/2021 at 11:48 AM, Chip said:

Finally, I was wondering if it was possible for members to pin a post or status update on their profile page. I'm proud of a few topics I've made, and I would like people to see them immediately when they visit my page.

 

Also not an option, I'm afraid.

 

As a possible close alternative, you could put things like that in your "About Me" info - it's only 1 more click away.

 

On 7/29/2021 at 11:53 AM, roadworx said:

so, time for the obligatory question (and pls don't hurt me for asking this, i know this must've been asked a million times before): what're the prospects of that ever being fixed at all? the amount of time it's been screwed up gives me - and obviously many others - little hope that it's ever gonna be fixed. i've always just assumed it's something that you guys can't really control to begin with and has to do with shitty invision software, but i really don't know any of the technical details

 

It's actually not Invision this time. The idgames databases on the old and new servers got out of sync with each other, and that's why updating for both the /newstuff review center and the downloads section was disabled.

 

I couldn't tell you about the prospects of it being fixed, but I don't see any reason to believe it'll happen any time soon.

 

To be clear, I'm not a web developer in any way. I work exclusively with the Invision software; anything beyond that is beyond my capacity. It's been a long time since I've had the Doomworld main site login info, and when I did use it, it was usually to help with hosted sites content. Now that the site's entirely based around forums and databases, there's nothing I can help with behind-the-scenes anymore, so one of the people with that access and expertise would have to answer the question.

 

On 7/29/2021 at 12:03 PM, Decay said:

Anyway maybe I missed it, but why going the subforum route and not just making it it's own category? Something like...

 

That's an interesting setup.

 

It really does emphasize the modding component of the community, and I like how it moves from most specialized to most general.

 

The idea of having two Classic Doom categories, though... seems a bit of a stretch, I think? Like, the point of the categories is to lump large amounts of content into single general areas, so having two Classic Doom categories isn't exactly in sync with how the rest of the forums are divided.

 

I mean, I'm not opposed, but... it seems disjointed and inconsistent at first glance. Might be a thing I could get used to eventually though. And some people seem to like it, so... we'll add it to the list of things to consider.

 

The subforum route was part for the sake of consistency (compare with Doom Editing) and part not wanting to do anything too radical with the existing forum arrangement. But maybe it warrants a bigger change after all. We'll see. Either way, thanks for the suggestion.

 

On 7/29/2021 at 1:00 PM, omalefico32x said:

one thing i always though about can we make doom general not being tied to classic doom? doom 3 and new doom section barely see any action here and i feel like the sections should be only dedicated for stuff like mods, editing, source ports etc and doom general for any doom discussion not only classic doom

i know most are here for classic doom but at the end this is doomworld the biggest doom forum out there not just the biggest classic doom forum

 

Well, the reason it's tied to Classic Doom is because it was meant to be Classic Doom General :P

 

I mean, yeah, you occasionally get stuff like the "Doom Monster Comparison" video that covers all games in the series, and which could go in any of the main Doom forums. But that kind of crossover content is rare enough that I don't think it needs to displace this forum as a Classic Doom forum.

 

The way it's set now, each Doom has its own general forum, and given how distinct they are, it'll likely stay that way for the immediate future.

 

On 7/29/2021 at 3:05 PM, Redneckerz said:

I suspect this particular bit will go in a FAQ to help starters out, based on the above.

 

It'll be part of the new iteration of sticky threads, along with clarification of whether to place betas in Development or Releases.

 

(Though probably the word for "release-like betas" would be "gammas," but how many people really use that?)

 

On 7/29/2021 at 3:05 PM, Redneckerz said:

It could even be something the forum software allows you to do, and it does not matter what the distinction is, as long as there is one. Anything to make staff and stickied posts and threads stick out for newer users is a good one.

 

It's likely just an image file, though I don't immediately see any settings related to pin icons in the control panel (only forum and usergroup icons) so I'll have to dig deeper another time.

 

tbh this is the first time I've heard anybody say they can't notice sticky threads. Does anybody else find this a problem?

 

On 7/29/2021 at 3:05 PM, Redneckerz said:

>:( crap. Is this something that could work through the DoomWorld API that powers the /idgames backlog or is it completely separate from it?

 

I am actually surprised a search database of this hasn't been attempted yet, but converting it to readable format is probably the challenge here.

 

Well, to be a bit more clear, an attachment database is available through the admin control panel, and it looks like this:

 

 

But making a thing like that available to regular users is where the custom coding likely comes in.

 

On 7/29/2021 at 3:05 PM, Redneckerz said:

Were these people (Bloodshedder and co) approached by folks like Endless? Because if that ain't happening, then ofcourse the What's new is the next thing.

 

I dunno, perhaps i just want Wadazine to be part of DW more than others, haha.

 

I'm not sure who talked about what, or that anything would come of discussions at this point due to the technical issues involved.

 

And actually, when I first brought it up that we should consider adding the Releases forum, in anticipation of the databases remaining desynced, I had suggested that officially declaring The /newstuff Chronicles defunct wouldn't be such a big loss because a forum like this would serve the same purposes of showcasing new releases and allowing commentary on them. And even though it would be the creator presenting their own work, the comments afterward would still roughly act as the "reviews" (with us possibly emphasizing that reviews-as-replies are encouraged), so it's a close enough spiritual successor to T/nC, and may fill the "What's New" void as well.

 

13 hours ago, TheNoob_Gamer said:

Late reply, but I'm curious. When will the WAD and Mods split update arrive?

 

Hopefully within a few weeks. We'll have to decide on the final layout, get the new stickies written, and so on. To that end, I've been working on a tagging guide for most of today.

 

Additionally, this is just one part of a number of changes that have been suggested. What I'm planning to do is roll out all the updates in one large batch rather than gradually over a number of weeks, that way I can write a single announcement addressing everything all at once.

[roadworx]

21 minutes ago, Lüt said:

And actually, when I first brought it up that we should consider adding the Releases forum, in anticipation of the databases remaining desynced, I had suggested that officially declaring The /newstuff Chronicles defunct wouldn't be such a big loss because a forum like this would serve the same purposes of showcasing new releases and allowing commentary on them. And even though it would be the creator presenting their own work, the comments afterward would still roughly act as the "reviews" (with us possibly emphasizing that reviews-as-replies are encouraged), so it's a close enough spiritual successor to T/nC, and may fill the "What's New" void as well.

would it be possible to make it in a similar format to the editing questions subsection? so there's the central post in place of the question, and the "answers" would be reviews. and at the top, in place of unanswered questions, it could be something like a section with all the new releases of the day. just to make it as good of a replacement for the downloads section as possible

Edited August 1, 2021 by roadworx

[Worst]

On 7/29/2021 at 7:36 PM, Lüt said:

For example, if the main forum was titled "WADs & Mods - Releases," then it would be the logical conclusion that the nested forum structure would imply that the other 2 subforums are further expansions of the "Releases" topic, and not something else entirely; therefore, different/specialized types of releases, rather than non-release topics.

Maybe this issue could be avoided by separating releases to its own forum entirely? That would give it higher visibility, without making the nesting of the forum structure illogical as far as the topics go.

Perhaps it could be named "Mod Releases" to stick with the way most of the forum names are made of two words. ^{(Using the word "mod" rather than "wad" because IWADs aside, most wads should count as mods.)}
It could look something like:

 

[ketmar]

@Lüt somewhat unrelated question, but… is there any official API for the forum? at least for editing posts. i'm asking because it will be much easier for me (and prolly for other devs) to simly run a script that will update the OP when new release of something is ready, instead of doing it manually each time. sure, i can try to reverse-engineer what the browser is doing, but maybe there is some official way for this…