What'dya Prefer? MP3s or Midis in Maps

[roadworx]

24 minutes ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Some people argue that mp3s just "don't fit" Doom, and I think it's a ridiculous claim. Quake was released with wav music just 3 years later, and most user-made Doom maps (even in Vanilla formats) are more detailed than core Quake maps. It would be weird to have Wolfenstein 3D with mp3s, but definitely not Doom.

quake also doesn't have pixelated sprite-based enemies, weapons, and items; people are more used to sprite-based games of that era having more primitive music formats than games of the 3d era

Edited June 28, 2021 by roadworx

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

9 minutes ago, roadworx said:

quake also doesn't have pixelated sprite-based enemies, weapons, and items; 

Wrong. Quake's graphics are completely pixelated. Textures have the same resolution as Doom. Many Doom resources were recycled such as the cyberdemon's ass sprite being reused in some monsters.

people are more used to sprite-based games of that era having more primitive music formats than games of the 3d era

Many games of that era already featured CD music and just played midi in case of lacking the CD.
Every retro 2.5D fps I played as a kid (Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, Alien Trilogy) were played on consoles featuring wav music.
At that point midi music for games was already clearly dying. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Sergeant_Mark_IV

[Doomkid]

The thought of hearing MP3 files of Das Boot, the Mission Impossible theme, and a bunch of NIN and AIC songs when I was playing wads as a kid is... actually pretty awesome (I swear these MIDIs were the most common back then). But I grew up associating MIDI music with Doom, so yeah, unless the mod uses modern bells and whistles to make the experience pretty different, mp3 is just as unfitting in a vanilla/classic style Doom map as it would be in Super Mario Bros or Tetris to me personally.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Doomkid

[roadworx]

29 minutes ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Wrong. Quake's graphics are completely pixelated. Textures have the same resolution as Doom. Many Doom resources were recycled such as the cyberdemon's ass sprite being reused in some monsters.

please reread what i said:

Quote

quake also doesn't have pixelated sprite-based enemies, weapons, and items; people are more used to sprite-based games of that era having more primitive music formats than games of the 3d era

 

edit:

29 minutes ago, Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

Many games of that era already featured CD music and just played midi in case of lacking the CD.

Every retro 2.5D fps I played as a kid (Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, Alien Trilogy) were played on consoles featuring wav music.
At that point midi music for games was already clearly dying.

psx doom and duke nukem 3d: total meltdown also aren't the versions that the majority of people played back in the day, or even have played up to this day if we're gonna look at how many times the pc versions with the original midis have been rereleased

Edited June 28, 2021 by roadworx

[LadyMistDragon]

I honestly don't care too much. Having a popular song is pretty weird I guess, but MP3s work just as well in many cases, imo. It's not like playing the Redbook audio in Lands of Lore 2 where the CD-quality music clashes with the poorly-aged environments.

[snapshot]

Anything goes, as long as it's not an ear raping 10-20something seconds loop

Edited June 28, 2021 by sluggard

[Steve D]

4 hours ago, Bauul said:

 

Ah thank you!  So to ultra-simplifying, it's like a MIDI track bundled with its own soundfont?  Makes sense!  And it sounds like there are Doom maps that make use of it?  Or is that not the case?

 

To pimp my own shit, I'm using all tracker music in my Amiga Demo Party maps for the Grinning Like An Undertaker project, and mostly tracker in Realm of Intensified Chaos. ATM it has one midi -- Agony Rhapsody -- but that will be swapped out before release. I personally have problems in PrBoom when going from a map with tracker to one with midi, or vice-versa. Typically, the odd format will play softer or louder than the track before. This is primarily a problem for continuers. I haven't suffered from this in GZDoom or Risen3D.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Steve D

[Tristan]

4 hours ago, Bauul said:

Ironically Eviternity uses both MIDI and OGG.  It's relatively little known that PRBoom+ supports OGG playback.

Incidentally, Obsidian had me do both a OGG and a MIDI version of the Maskim Xul MAP02 track, the OGG only playing in Z-ports and the MIDI in PrBoom+

I always thought that was a bit strange but I didn't question it and just did as I was asked (the MIDI conversion wasn't too tricky so it wasn't a big deal), but reading this thread now, maybe having both was a good idea after all?

[Capellan]

I've been playing without music since before Doom 2 came out, so I voted VOID.

 

[tei tenga]

12 hours ago, Wavy said:

I will say that SNES SPC music is underrated.

 

I love the SNES version of the soundtrack. The "guitar" sounds so raunchy and it's all drenched in reverb.

[Wavy]

17 minutes ago, tei tenga said:

 

I love the SNES version of the soundtrack. The "guitar" sounds so raunchy and it's all drenched in reverb.

Agreed. I wonder where the original SNES Doom instruments came from, as we could have a HD SNES Doom music pack

[idbeholdME]

Always midi with old-school FPS games. Even if a game came out with both (like Blood), I vastly preferred the midi as the CD music just didn't fit the game.

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

For me, MIDI's are fine

[Deadwing]

The one that was intended by the composer.

[SLOTH MARINE (CB)]

[DNSKILL5]

I prefer midi in single player WADs, but prefer muted music in multiplayer. In single player, music can help pump me up and play better, and when midi music sounds really good or fits the level it can be quite impressive. OGGs or MP3s are nice, especially when it is something new from the author and not just copyrighted music, but they can take up a lot of space. I tend to prefer when people add the OGG/MP3 music as an optional downloadable add-on for their WAD, so that it reduces file size of their WAD and people won’t have to waste time downloading all that music if they don’t want it. 
 

In multiplayer the music gets distracting for me. I get far more “into” the game with the music off in deathmatch. It helps you pick up on sounds better that you might miss with the music blaring in the background, at least for me anyways. 

[Sena]

I'd say MP3, just because I almost never see it, so whenever one comes up it's always a pleasant surprise.

[Dark Pulse]

The fact there's no vote for "Mod/Tracker Music" makes me sad. Best of both worlds.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Dark Pulse

[TenenteZashu]

MIDIs saved in mp3 format

[Gez]

On lundi 28 juin 2021 at 12:24 AM, ENEMY!!! said:

Also, it would be very hard to create something along the lines of Aubrey Hodges's PSX Doom soundtrack in MIDI format. 

Amusingly, it actually uses a format very close to MIDI internally, and it can be losslessly converted to MIDI. It's just that it doesn't use the General MIDI instrument sets, but its own collection of samples. Same deal with Doom 64. All you need to do is to convert back the WSEQ tracks to MIDI and use the right soundfont.

 

On lundi 21 septembre 2020 at 9:30 AM, intacowetrust said:

Indeed. The entire Williams sequencer system also seems to be modelled rather heavily on MIDI, even down to the way it encodes delays to the next note in the variable length quantity format. This makes MIDI a natural format choice for importing sequences into the game.

[Doom_Dude]

I'm leaning slightly more towards Midis because of the smaller file sizes but also nostalgia but mp3's are fine as well.

[whybmonotacrab]

Depends. While I generally prefer midi, some of my favourite musical moments have come from non-midi formats. Paradise by Tango uses some amazing wav files that give the feeling you're playing an pulse pounding arcade game. Hell Ground makes phenomenal use of American McGee Alice's .ogg's to inspire dread in the player. Bastion of Chaos has an excellent Primeval metal track that elevates it to another level, and a midi track wouldn't quite match the visual fidelity on display in that map anyway. 

 

 Really just depends on how it's used honestly.

[intacowetrust]

9 hours ago, Gez said:

Amusingly, it actually uses a format very close to MIDI internally, and it can be losslessly converted to MIDI. It's just that it doesn't use the General MIDI instrument sets, but its own collection of samples. Same deal with Doom 64. All you need to do is to convert back the WSEQ tracks to MIDI and use the right soundfont.

 

And just on that point, here's the PSX music being rendered in a modern DAW (FL Studio):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvhApHFtSs0

The initial step towards getting it into this format involves doing exactly what @Gez said - converting the tracks to general MIDI before importing into FL Studio. Using the original samples and instruments that are setup to behave like the original PSX voices yields a performance very similar to what is experienced in-game.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

MP3. Midis are a pain to get sounding exactly as the composer had it when doing the music.

[Muusi]

After just finishing Eviternity, it's easy to vote for MIDI. I'm gonna have James Paddocks' Brutal Schism play at my funeral.

[Final Verdict]

Well, the boring answer is whatever fits the map in question.

 

For example depending on the map even no music can augment the atmosphere. It's one reason why I was always partial to the PSX tracks, the atmospheric music allowed you to hear the distant growls and grunts throughout the map.

 

If I'm playing something more vanilla (which is often the case) then I think Midi's work best, but if I'm playing something that will only run on GZDoom with all the bells and whistles then Midi can seem out of place in my opinion. I can't really imagine something like Bastion of Chaos with a chippy Midi track pumping away in the background. 

 

It really just boils down to what kind of map I'm playing. In the end it's as simple as that for me, but there are always exceptions.

 

[Immorpher]

Kind of related! I would love it if I could bundle soundfonts in PK3s, and perhaps enable them with gameinfo text or something. It would help with Doom 64 modding for GZDoom in particular.

[TheGreenZap]

I only listen to MIDIs when playing Doom. It would not be the same if I didn’t. MIDIs are very endearing to me.

[King Know-Nothing]

I get why people would really die on the hill of MIDIs for Doom and as a player I am down for whatever works, but I feel like when it comes time to put music in my own work, I am greatly going to lean in favor of MP3's and the like for several reasons, but mostly for ease and freedom.

 

Honestly, I am for anything that allows for experimentation and playing around with new ideas, but I definitely get the idea that there are certain things that feel inherently 'unDOOM like' and it is hard to find that line. However, kind of seeing where that line is and playfully dancing around it does seem like a rather intriguing idea to me.

[Mr. Alexander]

I prefer MIDIs for classicism's and tradition's sake, but given the bigger storage capacity of modern computers, I'd love to see more modern megaWADs experiment with mp3s, which have the advantage of consistency with the composer's vision. Full-on vocal rock music would sound out of place, but if you had a good ear for what sounds like Doom, you could make a lot of really cool music.