What do you think of Final Doom.

[Maximum Matt]

ALL HAIL THE CASALIS

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

TNT is an atmospheric set of maps with nice music and some good visual design. It starts off well but hits many irritating lows until it finishes, mainly due to map layouts.

 

Plutonia has nice gameplay throughout, but has no new music and its aesthetics/visual design and map layouts begin to grow old fast.

 

I perfer TNT, but I don't love either part of Final Doom. Mount Pain is one of my favorite maps.

Edited July 10, 2021 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[leodoom85]

Hey, at least Final Doom wasn't the final product to play for Doom. We are fortunate :D

[Steve D]

I've only played one third of Plutonia, but I love it, so I'm glad Final Doom exists. I also like some of the maps in Evilution.

[Wavy]

TNT was the better episode.

There. I said it.

[xScavengerWolfx]

7 hours ago, Silent Wolf said:

I don't like Final Doom as a whole, but I do love the Plutonia experiment. A prime example of sadistic encounter design...and revenants. SO.MANY. REVENANTS. 

don't forget the Chain gunners and the........Arch Vile's fuck MAP11 Hunted. fuck that map!

[Biodegradable]

As much as I don't much care for it personally, the importance of Plutonia and the Casali Bro's influence on the community and Doom mapping as a whole cannot be overstated. As for TNT? Pfft.

[Doom-X-Machina]

Final Doom is a lie.

There are Dooms after it.

[Mr. Freeze]

Better than Doom 2. 

[Sena]

it's a consistently good WAD, with a 90% margin for error

[CorianderCastor]

9 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I think the mapping of MM is higher quality on the whole than that of TNT as well.

Wasn't MM1 the one with that god awful McCandlish map? Then again I love the Wrath Corp megawads, which have meh McCandlish maps. His map in the Quake expansion was pretty good though.

 

Without Final Doom, Perdition's Gate and Hell to Pay wouldn't be what they are, so they're cool. Also making money on things is great; let's not be those "it's not art if you had to spend money to make it" people.

[GarrettChan]

Plutonia, the only 10 out of 10.

[Somniac]

I think they both have highs and lows. TNT has some great new music but some pretty tedious maps offset by a few really good ones. Plutonia has great level design but no new content and too much revenant spam.

[NoXion]

I only really discovered Final Doom later on, after I had already been spoiled by the Doom mapping community's output. Without nostalgia, it's frankly baffling to me that Final Doom is a commercial product instead of just another custom WADset. Neither of them really stand out to me, I think only TNT has custom music and I think Plutonia has some custom textures, but otherwise I don't understand what the fuss is all about.

Edited July 11, 2021 by NoXion

[garudave]

I recently played through both wads for the first time.  They hold up extremely well and there are maybe 5 maps between the two sets that I wouldn't want to play again.

 

TNT's emphasis on architecture sticks out to me and elevates a lot of the maps.  I found myself admiring some maps in that set that also kind of irritated me.  One example off the top of my head is map 18: Mill.  It's too damn big and the encounters are mostly flat but the grand design of it appeals to me and it pops aesthetically.  There are some great maps peppered through the set like Steel Works, Central Processing, and Mt. Pain, but most of the set is "mixed bag" maps like Mill.

 

Plutonia competently sizzles for most of its runtime.  You can isolate chunks of Plutonia that are just great.  The first 7 maps are extremely good, maybe even Knee Deep in the Dead good.  After that, the quality becomes a bit roller-coastery for a while until you hit map 15 and the secret levels, which all thoroughly bang.  Then the sizzling returns until the final 4 maps, which are iconic and really cement Plutonia's legacy.  If the Casalis had been allowed to release Plutonia as a 15-20 map set, I think it would be held up as an unquestionable classic, or at least more than it already is.

 

As to its worthiness as a commercial product, I would certainly pay for Final Doom.  Even without new weapons or enemies, the maps really speak for themselves.  There's something to be said about presenting mapping talent as the main feature of your product.  Maybe id Software could have gone about it better back then, but that doesn't diminish the greatness of Final Doom imo.

[leodoom85]

Ah yes.....didn't posted what I think about both games.

 

TNT feels like a proper experiment to play with and it's a mix of good and terrible maps. The addition of new music, unlike Plutonia, is appreciated and it helps to have a proper identity.

Plutonia on the other hand, it's like a polished stone close to perfection. All maps are good and was the inspiration for harder maps in the future (it still applies today). The only negative point is the music. I like the music from Doom and Doom 2 but it was better to have a different music to enjoy, like TNT. 

 

Both wads are good in its own right, it's up to the player to enjoy the experience, even if a lot of nitpicks are found.