The Activision Blizzard Situation ¿Any Thoughts?

[Mr. Freeze]

If we let all the gaming companies merge, we can nationalize them in one fell swoop, which will either give us automated luxury communist gaming or drive the industry to ruin. Win-win.

[Graf Zahl]

1 hour ago, Mr. Freeze said:

...or drive the industry to ruin. Win-win.

 

Aren't we already there? How far can it go when only the wealthiest companies in the world can still afford developing AAA games?

[Rudolph]

@Mr. Freeze YES! Video game communism! :D

 

@Graf Zahl My guess is that it would have to be like the Video Game Crash of 1983, when companies had to bury unsold copies of games in the desert and people got so sick of video games that Nintendo had to sell the Famicom as a "Entertainment System".

[Mr. Freeze]

5 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

 My guess is that it would have to be like the Video Game Crash of 1983, when companies had to bury unsold copies of games in the desert and people got so sick of video games that Nintendo had to sell the Famicom as a "Entertainment System".

 

The difference between now and then is that now, video games are a respected legitimate form of entertainment. Back in the 80's they were just toys, or considered toys alongside GI Joes and Barbies. The video game crash was the industry's equivalent of a fad passing by. It's never gonna happen again. 

[Graf Zahl]

Not like back then. What we are witnessing now is the entire industry consolidating into a Hollywood-like oligopoly where a handful of competitors are trying to lock in the customers ever more into their abusive platforms. If the whole thing becomes too toxic there's maybe some chance for it to realign along sane parameters, but the current AAA industry is heading for a fatal crash if they continue on their current course.

[Rudolph]

I sort of both agree and disagree there. If video games really were considered to be just toys back then, Nintendo would not have been able to sell the Famicom as just a different toy/Entertainment System. Plus I do recall video games being advertised to both children and adults alike, so clearly, they were considered to be more than just toys at the time.

 

And yes, what is happening to the AAA industry is terrible, but thankfully, the indie scene is not going anywhere anytime soon. If the AAA industry collapses, I reckon it can only benefit indie developers who are able to distribute their games online and thus save on the expenses related to physical distribution. Heck, maybe it will lead to a situation akin of the "New Hollywood" period in the 1970s, albeit hopefully not as short-lived.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Rudolph

[printz]

It's easy to have pipe dreams about Heretic/Hexen resurfacing if Microsoft buy AcTiVisionBlizzard and that somehow connects id to Raven via the organization chart. But how popular are those games to be worth investing resources on? Heretic struggles to be well liked here as it is, it's always Doom DooM DOOM here. I don't think Hexen was ever that loved, and Raven have a history of constantly being the second fiddle, their games being rather generic fantasy anyway. You could easily interchange Hexen with Warcraft nowadays, nobody would notice. And even now, the idtech1 Heretic/Hexen games are already available on web stores, not abandoned. I just don't know what to think...

[Gothic]

1 hour ago, printz said:

Heretic struggles to be well liked here as it is, it's always Doom DooM DOOM here.

Well this is DOOMWorld after all.

1 hour ago, printz said:

And even now, the idtech1 Heretic/Hexen games are already available on web stores, not abandoned. I just don't know what to think...

Heretic 2 hasn't been rereleased due to publishing problems, maybe now this can be fixed.

[scalliano]

Who needs cross-platform bans when you have a monopoly?

[spd7693]

3 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Not to cut in here too much, but you kinda, sorta, ish should care what types of douchebags make the games they expect you to pay good money for - not because of some sense of doing what's ethical or whatever - although that approach is certainly valid - but...

..The reason why you should care at least a little bit is that drunk workers, who are busy going after somebody else at their work place instead of having their mind focused on their work, are more likely to produce "faulty" products. Moreover, it takes them longer to finish the product in question while their per-hour-pay remains constant. In other words, if nothing else, this means that you get less value for your money, and I don't see why you should be okay with that.

 

What I also don't understand is why you're so upset... I still have copies of starcraft + broodwar as well as diablo 2 + Lord of Destruction on CD, and if I can be bothered to break out my external CD/DVD drive, I still play those games, because they're fun, and they are remnants of an era during which Blizzard was still "just blizzard" for the most part, and the fish wasn't rotting at the head...

 

I don't feel bad about enjoying those games that I've paid money for already anyway, but me personally, I'm not going to pick up anything new that is made by a company whose higher ups (as in those who get the biggest chunk of the money I'd lay down), haven't even the slightest concept of basic human dignity.

 

Having said that, if you want to keep buying what they sell, that's your choice, and I don't think anybody would actually, genuinely condemn you for it.. It doesn't make a difference at the bottom line anyway... Anybody who believes their couple hundred bucks they may or may not spend on games makes a difference in the world is delusional when it comes to multi-million, or rather multi-billion companies like that anyway...

 

The only way any money would be able to make any difference, however little it may be, is if somebody was a somewhat big shareholder who can throw a bit of weight around, and even then, if that supposed shareholder existed, the outcome could still be entirely marginal regardless...

 

What I am bothered by is this constant "cancel culture" that is still lingering among everyone around. I know you won't blame me for wanting what I want - in the end everybody has their own views. I know I don't want to give my money for low quality production. That is applicable to anyone, right? Other question is that even things of not very good quality have their moments, that make some people like them. I am maybe an even bigger StarCraft maniac than I like Doom 2. Belive or not, I even enjoyed Legacy Of The Void! (And I have no patience for a third game, which Blizzard seem to be planning in some not very distant future.) I grew up with this game as much as I grew up with Doom. 

 

The reason for my outburst was that I felt the same bash towards fans of these companies I felt when people bashed J. K. Rowling for her apparently homophobic thoughts and condemned readers of Harry Potter. I also felt it towards fans of Iced Earth after what Jon Schaffer did at Capitolia. And when I gave example with them in other forums for some things, the answer was literally "I don't give a f***." I always would say that no matter what you do, that doesn't make you less human than you are. (Unless some very specific explicit acts of cruelty.) True, a crime must always come with a punishment, but if you also have done mostly good things before that, shouldn't you be given a fair chance of redemption? Maybe these companies also should be given a such instead of being condemned, along their fans. Or at least the ones, who are willing to get something their like, be given a chance in community, not be thrown away just for that. People should not divide each other in camps over everything. It's not wrong to make exceptions for people or not to even them up with their causes. 

[Major Arlene]

9 minutes ago, spd7693 said:

True, a crime must always come with a punishment, but if you also have done mostly good things before that, shouldn't you be given a fair chance of redemption?

Depend on how you went about doing those good things. If you're building off the backs of systemic exploitation of vulnerable people (which Kotick very much did here) then no.

was it mentioned here he literally threatened to kill an employee?

second edit: he's broken more laws than just being a dickhead. HR actively shredded employee information, several employment laws were broken, etc. this isn't just some cancel culture thing. He's the head of one of the largest gaming companies in the world and is responsible for what happens to them. and he failed. miserably.

[mrthejoshmon]

"You see right, they may have allowed, facilitated and covered up abuse BUT they did make Diablo 2 soo...."

Edited January 18, 2022 by mrthejoshmon

[Rudolph]

20 minutes ago, spd7693 said:

Believe or not, I even enjoyed Legacy Of The Void! (And I have no patience for a third game, which Blizzard seem to be planning in some not very distant future.)

Is Legacy of the Void supposed to be bad now? Even though it is my least favorite entry in the StarCraft II trilogy, I have played it and liked it well enough, and its ending felt conclusive enough. I thought Nova Covert Ops was the one nobody liked.

 

Either way, even if Blizzard were to miraculously get rid of its toxic culture and shitty practices, I do not think I will bother with StarCraft 3, if it ever comes out, as I could barely keep up with the frantic pace of StarCraft II's gameplay.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Rudolph

[Astronomical]

14 minutes ago, spd7693 said:

True, a crime must always come with a punishment, but if you also have done mostly good things before that, shouldn't you be given a fair chance of redemption?

The point of a punishment in theory is to prevent future crime, if you regularly volunteer at the local soup kitchen it doesn't excuse any future crimes you may commit.  Furthermore we may also call into question the good that people in the industry do, everyone accused haven't been known to be upstanding people, but it isn't about your past. Many people who have done awful things have done good things, and vice versa, no one should get a pass for being a good person (As much as you can define a good or bad person to begin with) or should have anything good they do called into question because they haven't been known to do good things.

[scalliano]

2 hours ago, Rudolph said:

@Mr. Freeze YES! Video game communism! :D

Is that where you go into an in-game store and everything is out of stock? :P

[Maribo]

What is it with people coming in this thread and huffing insane amounts of copium over "cancel culture" and basic human decency? Why have there been multiple responses in this thread that boil down to "yeah I'm aware that the people in positions of power in my favorite dev studios are allowing or directly participating in harassment of subordinates but i like video games so i don't care"? Do you really value the product over the human being that is actually putting time and labor into making the product? Do you really think people are telling you to stop playing CDs of games you purchased 15+ years ago?
I'm sorry man, I dunno, I'm at my boiling point with this shit.

 

14 minutes ago, spd7693 said:

The reason for my outburst was that I felt the same bash towards fans of these companies I felt when people bashed J. K. Rowling for her apparently homophobic thoughts and condemned readers of Harry Potter.

I would argue that it is morally okay to bash someone who is completely aware of sexual harassment issues in a company they enjoy, but then throws their money at that company after they're imparted with that knowledge. Bringing up J.K. Rowling in this is a funny argument, considering she has done nothing but continue to spite fans who don't like her views (bigoted, by the way, not just towards gay people). It's also strange that you're comparing bashing of fans who pay money for products that are made by people who let abuse slide, to a literal product creator whose product is filled with stereotypes and thinly-veiled bigoted portrayals... but whatever gives you a reason to bring it up, I guess.

 

26 minutes ago, spd7693 said:

And when I gave example with them in other forums for some things, the answer was literally "I don't give a f***." I always would say that no matter what you do, that doesn't make you less human than you are. (Unless some very specific explicit acts of cruelty.) True, a crime must always come with a punishment, but if you also have done mostly good things before that, shouldn't you be given a fair chance of redemption? Maybe these companies also should be given a such instead of being condemned, along their fans. Or at least the ones, who are willing to get something their like, be given a chance in community, not be thrown away just for that. People should not divide each other in camps over everything. It's not wrong to make exceptions for people or not to even them up with their causes. 

You cannot redeem rotten roots, and every document published about incidents like these in industries like Hollywood and the video game industry indicates that they are rotten to the core. Dividing into camps shouldn't be a thing either, you're right, it should be common human decency to not pass out nude photos of your coworker(s), or barge into their cubicles, drunk, in office hours, and harass them... but here we are, aren't we?

[Rudolph]

If anything, I hope Microsoft's acquisition of Activision Blizzard will not dissuade the disgruntled staff from unionizing.

[Bridgeburner56]

2 hours ago, spd7693 said:

What I am bothered by is this constant "cancel culture" that is still lingering among everyone around

This isn't cancel culture, this is free market economics at work. If the world judges Activision/Blizzard's work ethic unprofitable they will either change or slowly disintegrate. Same with the workers. The are free to apply their labour to wherever they see fit. Same with all the examples you listed. They are being judged by the market. 

And stop trying to turn yourself into a martyr. No one is telling you what media you can or cannot consume or enjoy. More importantly, nobody cares what media you do or do not consume. If a company's behaviour doesn't affect you purchasing their products then good for you. But everyone is free to make such a choice and if they choose not give said companies/people their patronage that is their right.

NB. This argument obviously changes if people are breaking the law.  

Also the irony of complaining about cancel culture while censoring your own swear words amuses me

[rzh]

4 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

What we are witnessing now is the entire industry consolidating into a Hollywood-like oligopoly where a handful of competitors are trying to lock in the customers ever more into their abusive platforms.

So sexual offenders making shovelware nostalgia-pandering garbage that has some half-assed virtue signaling in it in order to politicize the content to drive away the discussion from it's merits as a standalone product? I guess nothing changed for Activision-Blizzard after all.

Edited January 19, 2022 by rzh

[Rudolph]

18 minutes ago, Bridgeburner56 said:

If the world judges Activision/Blizzard's work ethic unprofitable they will either change or slowly disintegrate. Same with the workers. The are free to apply their labour to wherever they see fit.

Unfortunately, it does not work that way. For starters, Activision Blizzard's work ethic is the norm, not the exception: it just so happens that it is the one that is making the news right now. Microsoft absorbing Activision Blizzard means that the market is actually shrinking for both consumers and workers, thus making it increasingly harder to avoid having to deal with unethical scumbags who seem to own everything.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Rudolph

[Mr. Freeze]

If a company's in-house behavior bothers you enough as a consumer to make you decide not to buy their stuff, then boy howdy do I have news for you about almost every gaming development and publishing company under the sun! 

[Bridgeburner56]

19 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Unfortunately, it does not work that way. For starters, Activision Blizzard's work ethic is the norm, not the exception: it just so happens that it is the one that is making the news right now. Microsoft absorbing Activision Blizzard means that the market is actually shrinking for both consumers and workers, thus making it increasingly harder to avoid having to deal with unethical scumbags who seem to own everything.

You are correct, the market historically has given no fucks about how poorly workers are treated. Now the few times change has been enacted you get a bunch of shrill snowflakes crying about cancel culture. My original post was mildly facetious :D and for the record fuck Blizzard/Activision

 

11 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

If a company's in-house behavior bothers you enough as a consumer to make you decide not to buy their stuff, then boy howdy do I have news for you about almost every gaming development and publishing company under the sun! 

Feel free to provide proof so people can make informed decisions

[Major Arlene]

8 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

If a company's in-house behavior bothers you enough as a consumer to make you decide not to buy their stuff, then boy howdy do I have news for you about almost every gaming development and publishing company under the sun! 

Lucky for us we have a huge variety of indies to choose from, not that there's not that same sort of thing happening with some of them, but you typically don't have a corporate bro structure the way we've seen all our favorite triple A's fall victim too.

Also, this is why they're making efforts to unionize.

[MLGari]

17 hours ago, Rudolph said:

If anything, I hope Microsoft's acquisition of Activision Blizzard will not dissuade the disgruntled staff from unionizing.

activision being sold microsoft was probably bobby's way of getting rid of the disgruntled employee problem while leaving scott free in 2023 

[Nine Inch Heels]

9 minutes ago, MLGari said:

activision being sold microsoft was probably bobby's way of getting rid of the disgruntled employee problem while leaving scott free in 2023 

Who wouldn't love a "get out of jail card" when it's also gonna come packed with a 7 to 8 digits pay check to boot..?

[Gez]

18 hours ago, scalliano said:

Is that where you go into an in-game store and everything is out of stock? :P

In video game capitalism, everything is also out of stock but you may get what you want out of a random lootcrate. Buy 12 right now with your mom's credit card for the best value!

 

16 hours ago, Mr. Freeze said:

If a company's in-house behavior bothers you enough as a consumer to make you decide not to buy their stuff, then boy howdy do I have news for you about almost every gaming development and publishing company under the sun! 

It goes a lot further than that. Bought any consumer electronics within the last twenty years? It was made in China by exploited labor. Do you buy your food in shops? Congratulations, you're giving money to absolutely horrible people. There's like three or four agrifood companies that own all the brands you've ever heard of, and they're all atrocious. Some are even guilty of war crimes; just read a bit into why the term "banana republic" exists.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Gez

[Cruduxy Pegg]

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Who wouldn't love a "get out of jail card" when it's also gonna come packed with a 7 to 8 digits pay check to boot..?

Well it is all relative. Bobby took so much money I am not sure more money even does anything to his wealth by that point. Dragon's gonna take all his hoard to the grave.

[Nine Inch Heels]

59 minutes ago, Pegg said:

Well it is all relative. Bobby took so much money I am not sure more money even does anything to his wealth by that point. Dragon's gonna take all his hoard to the grave.

Doesn't really matter, the bottom line is most likely gonna be that bobby has to relinquish his crown, and he'll also get paid for it, rather than being prompted to do anything in the way of reparations at his own expense... The moral of the story: Crime is worth it, if you're at the top of the food-chain already...

[scalliano]

20 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Unfortunately, it does not work that way. For starters, Activision Blizzard's work ethic is the norm, not the exception: it just so happens that it is the one that is making the news right now. Microsoft absorbing Activision Blizzard means that the market is actually shrinking for both consumers and workers, thus making it increasingly harder to avoid having to deal with unethical scumbags who seem to own everything.

This and the fact that normies are gonna buy Call of Duty anyway.

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, scalliano said:

This and the fact that normies are gonna buy Call of Duty anyway.

Unsurprising, as at this point, I think more money is invested in advertisement than game development.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Rudolph