( A video of mine ) On a topic I'm surprised nobody in this community has talked about

[Lippeth]

1 minute ago, OniriA said:

I feel like some people here are going a bit too hard on this and trying to write a book or something. 

Comes over as kind of no-life to be honest.

I do apologize, but it's just fun talking about this, and Gustavo_Playz definitely gave us something fun to talk about!

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

6 minutes ago, Liberation said:

 

Well, that is far from accurate, so lets not go around saying that.

 

As for the video, it did remind me of gmanlives's video, but the Doom3 stuff seems legit, bfg edition was a different game.

What he was saying was "don't take this as Doomworld members saying we all hate GzDOOM"

 

:)

Edited July 24, 2021 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[Obsidian]

6 minutes ago, OniriA said:

I feel like some people here are going a bit too hard on this and trying to write a book or something. 

Comes over as kind of no-life to be honest.

 

No need to be rude.

[P41R47]

13 minutes ago, Gustavo_Playz said:

Ok I know the mistake now of me not using the “ complete original “ but I guess the point was, was to say that they really could’ve done a better job tbh and that they really had better options they could’ve used instead of the ports they used for the console, and ngl the audio changes and the music being different even if it wasn’t intentional still doesn’t make the audio on these console ports any better, bcs imo the gzdoom port of the audio feels more “ natural “ to me and it’s not just a case of me being “ biased “ towards the gzdoom port, the newly ported audio just seems kind of off.

Last year, when the new Classic port was release, GGMan made the mistake of comparing things to GZDoom. And he was literally bouched from all the corners of the earth. It was missinformation, not knowing what the original Doom was, maybe even it could have been on purpose. But the video was soo full of missinformation that he had to took it down.

...

You are kinda making the same mistake here with the Doom 1&2 part. :/

Doom 3 part is alright, you moslty critizice what was critiziced when BFGEdition was release, so you are not adding nothing new to the table.

Edited July 24, 2021 by P41R47

[Gustavo_Playz]

6 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

Last year, when the new Classic port was release, GGMan made the mistake of comparing things to GZDoom. And he was literally bouched from all the corners of the earth. It was missinformation, not knowing what the original Doom was, maybe even it could have been on purpose. But the video was soo full of missinformation that he had to took it down.

...

You are kinda making the same mistake here with the Doom 1&2 part. :/

Doom 3 part is alright, you moslty critizice what was critiziced when BFGEdition was release, so you are not adding nothing new to the table.

Well I guess the mistake that could’ve been fixed would be to say that they could’ve done better with porting something better and something as close as possible to the original, and I really think people dislike bombing this are overreacting, because that was really the only mistake that was made, saying I’m comparing it to the original instead of saying I’m comparing to something that is better than the console ports in a lot of people’s eyes, I like the doom community don’t get me wrong, but sometimes they can overreact even if you say 1 thing incorrect.

[OniriA]

1 minute ago, Gustavo_Playz said:

I like the doom community don’t get me wrong, but sometimes they can overreact even if you say 1 thing incorrect.

 

Agree with that, it's a common issue here.

 

Please don't take it to heart though.

 

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

11 minutes ago, Gustavo_Playz said:

I like the doom community don’t get me wrong, but sometimes they can overreact even if you say 1 thing incorrect.

This is going to happen on any forum dedicated to one hobby/subject. When you're dealing with people who have deep experience and knowledge about a topic they study, mistakes are going to stand out and people will be quick to point out those mistakes because they've probably seen dozens of other people make them. Take it as a learning opportunity, not an insult. Unless someone is actually insulting you, in which case you should ignore and report them. If I make a mistake in one of my posts, I appreciate it when people point it out, because it adds to my knowledge. If nobody pointed out mistakes, nobody would be on the same page.

Edited July 24, 2021 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[P41R47]

8 minutes ago, Gustavo_Playz said:

Well I guess the mistake that could’ve been fixed would be to say that they could’ve done better with porting something better and something as close as possible to the original,

Well, thats kinda difficult. Especially when BFG edition was release, it has to accommodate a lot of things to make the original games playables, as it used the Doom 3 engine as aframe to emulate the original game. The limitations on the approach shows that albeit rudimentary, the accurracy was pretty high. Not the best one, but the best when it was release.
 

Now, when you say ''could've done better'', that is subjetive.

For you it may need more features, but For people that played the original game backthen, and want a way to play it on modern PCs and consoles without any set up, the new classic unity port is almost perfect, having a good amount of features and content to be played out of the box exactly like it was in 1993.
What is lack? Proper multiplayer, but well at least there is a local multiplayer.

[Gustavo_Playz]

2 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

This is going to happen on any forum dedicated to one hobby/subject. When you're dealing with people who have deep experience and knowledge about a topic they study, mistakes are going to stand out and people will be quick to point out those mistakes because they've seen dozens of other people make them. Take it as a learning opportunity, not an insult. Unless someone is actually insulting you, in which case you should ignore and report them.

I do take criticism as a way of improving indeed, but I don’t think people should be dislike bombing stuff just bcs I messed up my wording a little bit, but does that mean I have to completely edit the intro and say that I’m comparing the console ports to gzdoom and fan made ports that are for the most part considered better and completely reupload the video? Bcs it seems that people hated it simply bcs I used gzdoom as a reference and I guarantee you that if I said I was comparing stuff using gzdoom / fan made ports and how they could’ve used those if not something better then I probably wouldn’t have half of the backlash I got, and what really seems to annoy me is that the majority of people here seem to completely ignore what things I said were true and only come out in the negative.

[Kurogachii]

2 hours ago, OniriA said:

I feel like some people here are going a bit too hard on this and trying to write a book or something. 

Comes over as kind of no-life to be honest.

I feel like instead of having a grade of "control" about "what's rude or not" on people's opinions we as members don't have to take other member's opinions too seriously, especially when it's a personal thought, in my opinion at least.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Kurogachii

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

2 minutes ago, Gustavo_Playz said:

I do take criticism as a way of improving indeed, but I don’t think people should be dislike bombing stuff just bcs I messed up my wording a little bit, but does that mean I have to completely edit the intro and say that I’m comparing the console ports to gzdoom and fan made ports that are for the most part considered better and completely reupload the video? Bcs it seems that people hated it simply bcs I used gzdoom as a reference and I guarantee you that if I said I was comparing stuff using gzdoom / fan made ports and how they could’ve used those if not something better then I probably wouldn’t have half of the backlash I got, and what really seems to annoy me is that the majority of people here seem to completely ignore what things I said were true and only come out in the negative.

Nobody is "dislike bombing" or "hating" your post/video, as it was no doubt made with good intentions. As @Kurogachii said, you should take things that people say to you with a grain of salt. But I'm very familiar with pretty much everyone on this thread, and I can tell you that their intentions are not to mock you or make you feel bad.

[P41R47]

3 minutes ago, Gustavo_Playz said:

and what really seems to annoy me is that the majority of people here seem to completely ignore what things I said were true and only come out in the negative.

Well, thats because the missinformation is damaging and you don't seem to get that.

What you call true, your criticism about the port, they may be true, ONLY, when compared to proper accurrate source ports that may offer a good amount of quality of life improvements to make things easier.
When compared to that, yes, the new official ports lack on content.

But your criticism wasn't made like that, so its hard to say how things would be, instead.

:/

And again, what you call true is not what most of us understand as it, so maybe from there is were you should try to point things out and think them on a new perspective.

[Gustavo_Playz]

2 minutes ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Nobody is "dislike bombing" or "hating" your post/video, as it was no doubt made with good intentions. As @Kurogachii said, you should take things that people say to you with a grain of salt. But I'm very familiar with pretty much everyone on this thread, and I can tell you that their intentions are not to mock you or make you feel bad.

Well then what should I change in the video? Bcs I want a better outcome this time, since of course more dislikes would probably turn people off that didn’t even listen to all the truths I did speak, bcs of course I want to improve and have a better reputation/ reception in the doom community, bcs I don’t want the video to have the bad reputation it currently has.

[P41R47]

1 minute ago, Gustavo_Playz said:

Well then what should I change in the video? Bcs I want a better outcome this time, since of course more dislikes would probably turn people off that didn’t even listen to all the truths I did speak, bcs of course I want to improve and have a better reputation/ reception in the doom community, bcs I don’t want the video to have the bad reputation it currently has.

Took your time, read a lot, ask a lot, and you will have a good picture of what you may need to do.

The thing about informative videos is perspective, and of course, reliability of the information.

And don't want to sound bad, but don't you think you are being a little bit too arrogant when you say '' all the truths i did speak''?

As you may notice by now, your video has plenty of missacurrated information issues, so where is the truth? 

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

9 minutes ago, Gustavo_Playz said:

Well then what should I change in the video? Bcs I want a better outcome this time, since of course more dislikes would probably turn people off that didn’t even listen to all the truths I did speak, bcs of course I want to improve and have a better reputation/ reception in the doom community, bcs I don’t want the video to have the bad reputation it currently has.

Oh, so you're talking about dislikes on Youtube? Just ignore that and make a new video after doing some research. Preferably about something else, because as other members pointed out, this topic has been covered hundreds of times now.

 

But why do you care so much about downvotes and the "reputation" of a video? If a video has misinformation, people will downvote it. If it was presented poorly, people will downvote it. If someone is bored, they will downvote it. If someone is having a bad day, they will downvote it. That's just how it works. I'm not sure why you're letting it get to you so much.

 

If you want to have a better "reputation" in the DOOM community (which is kind of silly, as we aren't so judgemental to assign people a reputation), just post more things here and do some more research. Everyone started with zero knowledge. There is a lot more knowledge that is easily accessible than there was twenty years ago.

 

 

(And yes, I do realize we have a "reputation leaderboard", but that's more of a "which member has the most supercharges" leaderboard than anything)

Edited July 24, 2021 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[Gustavo_Playz]

1 minute ago, P41R47 said:

Took your time, read a lot, ask a lot, and you will have a good picture of what you may need to do.

The thing about informative videos is perspective, and of course, reliability of the information.

And don't want to sound bad, but don't you think you are being a little bit too arrogant when you say '' all the truths i did speak''?

As you may notice by now, your video has plenty of missacurrated information issues, so where is the truth? 

The most amount of truths seemed to be in doom 3, not much to say about that part, classic dooms as I said in the post could’ve been better, mainly with the sfx, music, customizability, features, and content, fov may have been wrong though.

[Lippeth]

Please don't take it the wrong way @Gustavo_Playz, I think most of us agree more or less with many of your points, it's just not exactly new insight and setting it up as "why is no one talking about this?" sort of gave me whiplash halfway through the video.

 

I do think you should re-edit the video, maybe take some new gameplay footage. And I urge you to take the time to balance the sound when comparing versions, I went from turning up my sound to going deaf from the transitions. I'll bet you can keep all of your arguments intact and shave off fifteen minutes, which will make the whole thing easier to digest. Letting full songs play out and playing every weapon sound might be a bit excessive, your point is clear within seconds of each clip and I ended up skipping forward a lot.

 

I say keep it up, keep making videos and continue the conversation! Criticism may still ensue, but I mean, you're opening yourself up to that by releasing anything to the public. The worst thing that can happen is that it goes ignored.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Lippeth

[P41R47]

16 minutes ago, Gustavo_Playz said:

not much to say about that part, classic dooms as I said in the post could’ve been better, mainly with the sfx, music, customizability, features, and content, fov may have been wrong though.

Well, that is one of the problems when you made a port.

You need to be faithful most of the times to the source material.

And the source material is the original Doom from 1993, not the source-ports.

''it could've done better'' in regards to what? That what you need to understand for yourself and make a perspective for.
If you assume that the BFG edition and the new classic unity port were release aiming to people to experience first time what they didn't have the oportunity to, you need to put faithfulness into equation.

And both ports were really faithfull to the original game, one a little less than the other, but still highly faithful.

 

Instead, if you think that those ports were aimed to people that already know what a source-port is...well, you get the point i think.

[xScavengerWolfx]

5 hours ago, OniriA said:

Who the hell plays Doom on a console anyway? (except for PsxDoom, but that was the 90's).

 

 

I used to until i got my PC a year ago.

 

[omx32x]

damn guys calm down i think you all are overreacting a little bit its normal for people new to the hobby to say stuff like this hell i have a lot of comments on youtube and even here criticizing gzdoom for not being vanilla and when i look back and i think i was missing the point something like that is probaly going to happen to the op too

 

also calling people no life is a bit rude dont you think?

[Gustavo_Playz]

1 hour ago, P41R47 said:

Well, that is one of the problems when you made a port.

You need to be faithful most of the times to the source material.

And the source material is the original Doom from 1993, not the source-ports.

''it could've done better'' in regards to what? That what you need to understand for yourself and make a perspective for.
If you assume that the BFG edition and the new classic unity port were release aiming to people to experience first time what they didn't have the oportunity to, you need to put faithfulness into equation.

And both ports were really faithfull to the original game, one a little less than the other, but still highly faithful.

 

Instead, if you think that those ports were aimed to people that already know what a source-port is...well, you get the point i think.

Since I wanna re-release the video tomorrow, I noticed most of what you said could simply be fixed correctly in the video by simply changing the intro, what should I say in the intro, ( I only stay up for 3 more hours from here ) Just gimme a recommendation, bcs I'm sure what I said in the video could work it's just that I need to word my intro correctly to correct these problems, I see no need in needed to re-do the video entirely.

[P41R47]

7 minutes ago, Gustavo_Playz said:

Since I wanna re-release the video tomorrow, I noticed most of what you said could simply be fixed correctly in the video by simply changing the intro, what should I say in the intro, ( I only stay up for 3 more hours from here ) Just gimme a recommendation, bcs I'm sure what I said in the video could work it's just that I need to word my intro correctly to correct these problems, I see no need in needed to re-do the video entirely.

Tomorrow may be somehow swiftly, as you really need to get to know most of the things people pointed you out, i think.

I don't know what exactly to say, as i don't know what you really want to do.
 

If you want to make a video showcasing a ''supposed'' downgrade on quality, just aim it for Doom 3 in relation to the BFG Edition.

Or compare different console versions, like the PSX Doom with the BFG Edition (that would be interesting, but since there are different console limitations, it becomes difficult, also may be kinda pointless, too, as there are a lot of differences between the PSX version with any other incarnation, except Doom 64). But in this case not talk about downgrading, maybe try to aknowledge or learn what limitations the different studios need to sort out to remain faithful to the original game.
Because, as a matter of fact, since BFG edition is one of the few ways to get No Rest For The Living expansion, i do not see it as a downgraded version. The limitations on porting it are left aside thanks to the inclusion of the new expansion. And it can't be seen as a downgrade when it offers new content, and is still faithfull to the original game, from my point of view.

 

Maybe showing the differences between the BFG edition with the original game? (not source-port, or a very highly accurrate source port if you don't want to use DOSbox)
That is something that i think has not been explored much... mostly because there are just a few differences?
I don't know. :/

[TheNoob_Gamer]

18 minutes ago, Gustavo_Playz said:

( I only stay up for 3 more hours from here )

No need to push yourself so hard - take it slowly and observe, understand all the mistakes people pointed out in your video (which is quite a lot) and research them. I understand your reluctance of re-doing a very long video (~40 mins!) but video documentaries require good information.

[Gustavo_Playz]

Just now, TheNoob_Gamer said:

No need to push yourself so hard - take it slowly and observe, understand all the mistakes people pointed out in your video (which is quite a lot) and research them. I understand your reluctance of re-doing a very long video (~40 mins!) but video documentaries require good information.

Or maybe I can change the intro and the title to something more fitting with what I'm talking about, since most people agreed with what I had to say, it's just that it's suitable for a different topic.

[Mayomancer]

Thank you guys for going though all points more meticulously than i could have the patience for... But yeah. I think that the critique you have can be valid, but you're approaching it from the wrong angles, some research on the different source port families and features and the history of the official releases (all pretty well documented by at this point at https://doomwiki.org) could def be useful to polish your video. No need to take it down or anything, can always just make follow ups.

[TheNoob_Gamer]

10 minutes ago, Mayomancer said:

No need to take it down or anything, can always just make follow ups.

Seconding this approach - a sequel video addressing the mistakes from the first is perhaps the preferable option.

[ketmar]

1 hour ago, Gustavo_Playz said:

what should I say in the intro, ( I only stay up for 3 more hours from here ) Just gimme a recommendation

i believe that Doom 1&2 part cannot be saved, because you are comparing apples and oranges there. it is absolutely unfair to compare vanilla-style ports, and advanced ports, they have completely different goals. just cut that part completely, and create a proper video later.

 

my 2 cents.

[Gustavo_Playz]

here is my new intro, that could probably change most things for the better, lemme know if anything needs to be changed or worked on with this new intro

 

Intro ( edited ): Hello everyone it’s FPSGaming back with a brand new video and this is something I really wanted to get out there as I feel like the newer official doom ports really could’ve been better, and yes, this is sort of a re-upload because of the back lash and criticism I got from the doom community, mainly revolving around the fact that I was using the gzdoom fan made doom port as a reference for what the complete original port was, and this video hasn’t been changed dialogue wise other than the intro, so if you hear me say or show a video that says it’s the original just remember that because of the criticism I mean gzdoom, and I use gzdoom mainly because it’s the most universally used and loved port on pc and keeps the original gameplay intact, and yes I am aware that gzdoom does have it’s faults in not keeping the original game completely as it was as I’m pretty sure videos have been done on this, I’m just using the more modern ports like gzdoom as an example since most people on PC tend to lean towards gzdoom when bringing up more modern ports of doom they find good especially for modern mass appeal, secondly I am aware that there are some forum posts and videos similar that have talked about this topic, so just remember that if I say nobody has talked about this, I’m lying and I simply just didn’t edit it out. 

[ketmar]

i think this is way better. everybody can make a mistake, after all.

 

still, i'd replace the part about "keeps the original gameplay intact" with something more neutral, like "is quite close to the original gameplay", because while you can get "almost vanilla" from GZDoom, most people won't go so deep, and will simply play with the default settings. and the defaults are quite far away from the vanilla in some important aspects.

[Gustavo_Playz]

2 minutes ago, ketmar said:

i think this is way better. everybody can make a mistake, after all.

 

still, i'd replace the part about "keeps the original gameplay intact" with something more neutral, like "is quite close to the original gameplay", because while you can get "almost vanilla" from GZDoom, most people won't go so deep, and will simply play with the default settings. and the defaults are quite far away from the vanilla in some important aspects.

"and keeps the gameplay quite close to the original" is this good?