I died and started recording as Archie kept dancing and killing multiple demons?

[Clippy]

This Archie had a few grievances to air - first it killed me and then I thought it was doing a victory dance ... but seen it was mad at Cyberfriend so I hit the record button

 

I didn't know Archies could maintain more than one memory of other monsters hurting them?

 

Just skip to the end - er 18:40ish

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Clippy

[Smoothandz]

Wow, for a medic that usually rezs its fellow demons... that archie sure did have a hate boner for a couple of dudes in that room.

[galileo31dos01]

1 hour ago, Clippy said:

I didn't know Archies could maintain more than one memory of other monsters hurting them?

 

Yeah it's called hatred. 

 

now for the serious answer: in that context my take is that, right after the archvile killed you, it somehow suffered damage from the cyberdemon who must have been shooting into your direction, causing the archvile to wake up and target the cyb.

 

You might notice more commonly in doom maps with monster crowds as there's infight going on, that if you get killed by X, and this gets hit by Y afterwards, in the case X wakes up again, it'll go towards Y until one of the two is dead, then the last monster standing goes back to sleep since there're no more marines left to chase. 

 

In Heretic, for reasons that I don't know, if you get killed, everything starts to infight with each other regardless of species, though I don't remember if this happens every time you die. 

[Dark Pulse]

Isn't there also some small single-digit or very low double-digit percent chance that after killing the player, a monster will start attacking some enemies at random, and if it kills it it targets something else?

 

EDIT: Ah, no, that was something that's only in Heretic and Hexen.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Dark Pulse

[Peccatum Mihzamiz]

Interesting. I also hadn't heard of monsters retaining hatred for more than one other monster. 

[LUISDooM]

Wow, I didn't know Archies would hold hatred to multiple targets. DooM never stops amazing me XD

32 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

In Heretic, for reasons that I don't know, if you get killed, everything starts to infight with each other regardless of species, though I don't remember if this happens every time you die. 

It also happens on Hexen and it happens everytime you die in both games. Wish there was a mod that makes that possible on DooM too (trough ZDoom ports), it would be pure madness XD

[Edward850]

27 minutes ago, Peccatum Mihzamiz said:

Interesting. I also hadn't heard of monsters retaining hatred for more than one other monster. 

 

6 minutes ago, LUISDooM said:

Wow, I didn't know Archies would hold hatred to multiple targets. DooM never stops amazing me XD

They don't, enemies can only ever track one target at a time, there is only a single pointer for that which will be a player or some other monster. What's going on is incidental behaviour of the Archviles instant retaliation; An Archvile will always immediately target the last thing that hurt it, and they were likely hurt by the cyberdemon just as the player died causing the infighting seen.

[Clippy]

2 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

 

They don't, enemies can only ever track one target at a time, there is only a single pointer for that which will be a player or some other monster. What's going on is incidental behaviour of the Archviles instant retaliation; An Archvile will always immediately target the last thing that hurt it, and they were likely hurt by the cyberdemon just as the player died causing the infighting seen.

 

Right - Cyberdemon made a lot of enemies - including 1 pinky and 2 spectares running around - they all stopped when cyber died

 

Why did Archie randomly kill a hell night?

 

I assume they both hurt him at one point and he was going through the list

[Peccatum Mihzamiz]

1 minute ago, Edward850 said:

They don't, enemies can only ever track one target at a time, there is only a single pointer for that which will be a player or some other monster. What's going on is incidental behaviour of the Archviles instant retaliation; An Archvile will always immediately target the last thing that hurt it, and they were likely hurt by the cyberdemon just as the player died causing the infighting seen.

Yes, and right after taking care of the cyberdemon it switches to a monster to the left, that didn't hit the Archvile.

[Clippy]

@Astro X look at the silly stuff that happened in your map

[Clippy]

1 minute ago, Peccatum Mihzamiz said:

Yes, and right after taking care of the cyberdemon it switches to a monster to the left, that didn't hit the Archvile.

 

It's possible monster #2 did hit the archvile at some point tho

 

Archie killed me and he then thought - screw this cyberdemon and oh yeah hell night didn't forget about youuuuuuuuu hell knight

 

I dunno it's weird

[Loud Silence]

Maybe port you use changes something in Doom.

[axdoomer]

Yes, monsters remember their previous target. It's an old feature added to ZDoom and Boom. I know you can toggle it on and off in PrBoom+'s compatibility menu.  

 

Here's a comment related to this feature in ZDoom's code (dated 2/15/98): 

https://github.com/rheit/zdoom/blob/master/src/p_interaction.cpp#L1553

 

[Edward850]

35 minutes ago, Peccatum Mihzamiz said:

Yes, and right after taking care of the cyberdemon it switches to a monster to the left, that didn't hit the Archvile.

Well I'm not sure what's going on, but a monster can only have a single target. This is an absolute. There's more going on that the @Clippy has not told us for this video to be possible.

Basically, all monsters when active call A_Chase. As the Archvile is targeting the Cyberdemon, the Archvile's actor->target pointer will be set to said Cyberdemon. Once the Cyberdemon dies its MF_SHOOTABLE flag is cleared, this causes the Archvile to ignore it as a valid target anymore and it looks for a new one in P_LookForPlayers, which is where the problem starts. There is nothing in P_LookForPlayers that would cause the Archvile to target another enemy, and there is no other target obtaining procedures, the Archvile must go back to sleep in such a state and the only thing that could wake it back up is another player.

 

Edit: Ah right, they were using Boom features, that's why.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Edward850

[axdoomer]

2 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

 a monster can only have a single target. This is an absolute.

 

That's true in vanilla Doom, except in source ports where there's one more pointer that monsters use to remember their previous target. 

 

In ZDoom, from my link above: 

target->lastenemy = target->target; // remember last enemy - killough

 

Not sure what's the history behind this bug fix. 

 

[Clippy]

For ppl asking I play exclusively on gzdoom 

 

All I did was start recording when Archie killed me cause I wanted to see how long it would take him to kill the cyber. Much longer than I thought but I guess it's because the cyber is not allergic to splash damage 

 

But yeah even as much as I've been playing I've never seen this behavior before after a death

[CBM]

1 hour ago, Clippy said:

For ppl asking I play exclusively on gzdoom 

 

All I did was start recording when Archie killed me cause I wanted to see how long it would take him to kill the cyber. Much longer than I thought but I guess it's because the cyber is not allergic to splash damage 

 

But yeah even as much as I've been playing I've never seen this behavior before after a death

its always entertaining to watch the monsters after the player is killed LOL and I guess te archvile in particular is prone to acting weird