Quake Remastered

[OpenRift]

On 8/19/2021 at 5:17 PM, sponge said:

Hey all, just popping in here to say hope y'all enjoy the new port! This is the project I've been involved with for the past year, and am excited that it's out on everything.

 

For nightmare, 50HP is intentional. We removed the "turreting" that enemies tended to do in Nightmare, and set health to 50 to compensate as a nod to what Copper did, in order to make Nightmare harder than hard, not easier.

If I wanted to play copper-style nightmare, I would play copper. Don't replace what's already there. That only hurts the experience. Also this breaks demo compatibility, and potentially maps/mods that rely on the base game's progs.dat. 

 

Also, whether or not the new nightmare is harder or easier is entirely subjective. Most people think it's too easy. Either way it's a disservice to the designers of the original game by undermining their design philosophy. 

[cybdmn]

1 hour ago, Devalaous said:

 

This would also explain why Methods of Destruction has only 10 tracks, not 11. It must have been made after the 11th track went missing.

 

MoD was released shortly after Quakes release in 1996.

[bobbie424242]

I've completed Dimension of the Machine (on PC) and it was an absolute blast from start to finish.

Hard was the perfect difficulty for me, well balanced in general.

Maps are mind-blowing and at least on par with the best modern mapping has to offer.

The sense of place, scale and environmental story-telling is particularly well done.

There's a few clever (and evil) encounters.

For me, DotM is the highlight of this release and it was totally a surprise. It must have required ton of efforts to make it.

Edited August 22, 2021 by bobbie424242

[Rexen²]

Was playing deathmatch on switch and while I did mention bots getting stuck on one of the maps, I thought it was just a map issue but it seems it might be a nav file issue or something else. Here's a clip of what I mean, it happens at both the start and near the end of the clip. The one at the end has the bot just running in place. Skill level is set to Training 

 

 

The funny part is I got a telefrag out of it

 

 

[xvertigox]

This release is fantastic! I'm playing on my Series X and I've played through all of Quake and Armagon. It felt strange at first to be playing Quake with a controller as in my mind it's so tied to kb + mouse. It works well enough though. I'm keen to see what addons they add. I saw someone mention in a reddit comment that mod support is completely broken and impossible to do, has anyone tested these claims? I had a quick look through this thread but 13 pages was too much for me to dig through.

[Rexen²]

Its hit or miss and YMMV. Put the mod into its own folder in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Quake\rerelease and then open the console in the game and type in game *folder name* 

For example in my case I download 2019 Xmas Jam and put it in a folder called 2019XmasJam so I would do Game 2019XmasJam into the console and it should load.

 

There's some minor bugs such as a map name not appearing in the save menu but mods can work.

 

 

Edit: Saving can take awhile sometimes so just a heads up and the player's name might appear weird if it has special characters in it like mines does instead of being removed.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Rexen²

[Snarboo]

2 hours ago, xvertigox said:

I saw someone mention in a reddit comment that mod support is completely broken and impossible to do, has anyone tested these claims? I had a quick look through this thread but 13 pages was too much for me to dig through.

It varies from mod to mod! X-Men Quake runs almost perfectly, custom palette and all, but is missing command aliases that let you play as the X-Men characters by typing their name into the console, while YPOD loads, but the custom palette and models do not. I tried those two first since they make more drastic changes, but I've yet to try other big ones like Malice or Shrak. My recommendation would be to look up how to load custom mods, then try your favorites to see which work and which don't. Multiplayer mods do not work, however, so no Team Fortress yet.

 

Also really enjoying this remaster, even with the minor quibbles and differences from vanilla Quake. I will say the Duke 3D style bullet hole decals being broken in Scourge of Armagon is a bummer, but you really don't notice them very much after the first few minutes anyway. :p

 

Edit:

I also noticed grappling hook and CTF mode in Dissolution of Eternity is also missing, but at least the CTF map and MP exclusive power ups are still there.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Snarboo
additional info

[Edward850]

28 minutes ago, Snarboo said:

Edit:

I also noticed grappling hook and CTF mode in Dissolution of Eternity is also missing, but at least the CTF map and MP exclusive power ups are still there.

CTF isn't missing (well it's not removed per say), but we've had trouble making a UI for it given the Quake side of things has weird conditions for how team games work, such as pants colour being what controls the team. This is on @sponge and I and we haven't given up on it yet.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Edward850

[PsychEyeball]

Dunno if this was reported yet or not, but when you're playing through Scourge of Armagon, you can't use the 9 and 0 keys to switch to the new weapons (the laser gun and the mjolnir) and there doesn't seem to be a way to map the new weapons at all to any key. The only way to switch to the weapons would be the weapon wheel.

 

Would it be possible for Scourge of Armagon to allow the use of the 9-0 keys to switch to these weapons?

[Snarboo]

1 hour ago, Edward850 said:

CTF isn't missing (well it's not removed per say), but we've had trouble making a UI for it given the Quake side of things has weird conditions for how team games work, such as pants colour being what controls the team. This is on @sponge and I and we haven't given up on it yet.

Awesome! :D Definitely looking forward to future updates and official addons.

[Edward850]

24 minutes ago, PsychEyeball said:

Dunno if this was reported yet or not, but when you're playing through Scourge of Armagon, you can't use the 9 and 0 keys to switch to the new weapons (the laser gun and the mjolnir) and there doesn't seem to be a way to map the new weapons at all to any key. The only way to switch to the weapons would be the weapon wheel.

 

Would it be possible for Scourge of Armagon to allow the use of the 9-0 keys to switch to these weapons?

Grumbling something about QA
This is going to be complicated to fix, as we can't actually update the default config and have it reflect on the user. Well, "complicated". I think there's a possible path on resolving those, though I'm not sure how it will affect things outside of the mission packs.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Edward850

[NightFright]

So, if you change sv_gibgravity in kexengine.cfg (C:\Users\<Username>\Saved Games\Nightdive Studios\Quake\) from 350 to 800, gibs physics are behaving as intended. Current side effect of this measure however is that gibs in Ziggurat Vertigo would fly with normal gravity as well, not affected by map gravity settings.

Edited August 23, 2021 by NightFright

[Gez]

35 minutes ago, NightFright said:

Current side effect of this measure however is that gibs in Ziggurat Vertigo would fly with normal gravity as well, not affected by map gravity settings.

It's not implemented as a factor of map gravity, but as a substitute for it?

[NightFright]

That's what it looks like, yeah. Begs the question why it is set to fit Ziggurat Vertigo settings by default and not all the other levels.

[Devalaous]

That is unfortunate. The most fun ive had in Quake so far was using the Quad Damage in ZV to shower the screen in slow floating gibs, all spraying blood everywhere, with that iconic quad damage firing sound

 

Honestly, it felt like I was a giddy kid again playing really old games >.>;

Edited August 23, 2021 by Devalaous

[NightFright]

Well, you can set gibs gravity temporarily to 350 again just for ZV as a workaround solution. I dunno why there are override settings for this in the first place, but there should be an "auto" option in config which would use map settings instead.

Edited August 23, 2021 by NightFright

[Gez]

What if you set it to zero or -1?

[Jello]

On 8/20/2021 at 8:51 AM, lazygecko said:

The interpolated movement is definitely messing with the gameplay to its detriment. I feel like I'm having a hard time weaving in and out of enemy melee attacks in a way I don't recall having issues with in the original. And platforming elements become really frustrating. There's this this secret room with a teleporter near the final elevator in E1M3 which will teleport you to the platforms hanging on the ceiling in the hallway. Every time I run into that teleporter the inertia from stepping through will always make me overshoot and fall over the edge. It even happens when you WALK through the teleporter.

There is something wrong with the movement, especially through teleporters. I just went through the one you were talking about, went through it while walking, went through it sideways, and it just makes you jump out. It was always a tricky teleporter even in the original DOS Quake, if you ran into it you would end up back on the ground, but as long as you were walking you would end up on the platform. Now you need to run/jump through it to get to the grenades on the second platform.

 

Yeah, after playing it further, and comparing it to Quakespasm, everything just feels slightly off. If there's one thing that I remember about Quake, and making levels for it, and playing it for over twenty years, it's just how weighty everything was. Every enemy felt like they had weight to them, even the Scrags, the player had a definite weight, momentum, and inertia depending of if you were running or walking, it really felt like the player was a physical character in this world. I'm just not feeling that in the new release.

 

I love Nightdive, I really do, the work on the Turok games was amazing, and Edward850 I really appreciate all that you guys have done towards preserving games, and don't take this the wrong way, but the game just feels off. Just comparing it to Quakespasm, everything feels like it has no impact in the world that it exists, everything feels like a balloon. The grunts feel like they have no presence, the knights, the shamblers, the fiends, the ogres. And the player. There is an intangible feel to Quake that I think was missed, but when I play Quakespasm or even Dark Places, it's still there, and it's palpable, and I'm reminded of playing Quake in DOS. There was a certain heft to the entire experience that for one reason or another is missing. Everything just feels like it's floating; and maybe it's just nostalgia, but I think Quake had one of the heaviest atmospheres of any game that I've ever played. Every monster felt like it belonged in that world, and it was stomping around because you were invading. I don't get that feeling in the remaster; and I wouldn't complain except I played it in Quakespasm and I got the same feeling.

 

I really do appreciate what you guys have done, and releasing it as a free upgrade to people who already owned Quake on Steam and GOG was amazing. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, you guys are great, and I really don't want to complain. But I love Quake so damn much that I felt like I should. Between Quake and Doom, I'm torn as to what my favorite game is, so I felt like I should say something. Again, Nightdive is an amazing group of people, and I have bought so many of your games, but Quake just feels off.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Jello

[NightFright]

45 minutes ago, Gez said:

What if you set it to zero or -1?

Then gibs will have zero gravity. It's fun to look at actually, but nothing I would want to use on a permanent basis. 

[Edward850]

55 minutes ago, Jello said:

I really do appreciate what you guys have done, and releasing it as a free upgrade to people who already owned Quake on Steam and GOG was amazing. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, you guys are great, and I really don't want to complain. But I love Quake so damn much that I felt like I should. Between Quake and Doom, I'm torn as to what my favorite game is, so I felt like I should say something. Again, Nightdive is an amazing group of people, and I have bought so many of your games, but Quake just feels off.

Well we haven't changed the physics engine at all, it's still DOS Quake, so I'm really not sure what you're talking about. And no it has nothing to do with interpolation at all, which is a render side only thing.

 

The only thing I could guess is that you might be more used to QuakeWorld, which this isn't. It's DOS Quake. Though Quakespasm also isn't QuakeWorld (as I understand it?) So I'm not sure what's up with that, but we have not touched the player physics model at all. There has to be some sort of placebo effect in play here.

 

To make things abundantly clear because people often confuse this, "using the Kex engine" does not mean we are emulating Quake in Kex, that's not how it does things. We take the original code and basically replace anything system related with Kex's APIs. The rendering code for example is translated into Kex's platform agnostic pipeline. We still run the original playsim, with the original assets. Heck we even used the original netcode this time round, which is actually slightly unusual for these sorts of projects; I normally completely rewrite that, but as Quake was so heavily built around its client/server structure even in singleplayer games, it was easier to simply add modern socket protocols to Quake's existing network drivers then it was to even imagine rewriting that.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Edward850

[SiMpLeToNiUm]

Loving the port, really, but whoever made this level of the Machine Games expansion is seriously on my doodoo list. I needed to take some time away from it cause I was getting kinda tilted, heh.

[Cantleylads]

23 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

Well we haven't changed the physics engine at all, it's still DOS Quake, so I'm really not sure what you're talking about. And no it has nothing to do with interpolation at all, which is a render side only thing.

 

The only thing I could guess is that you might be more used to QuakeWorld, which this isn't. It's DOS Quake. Though Quakespasm also isn't QuakeWorld (as I understand it?) So I'm not sure what's up with that, but we have not touched the player physics model at all. There has to be some sort of placebo effect in play here.

 

To make things abundantly clear because people often confuse this, "using the Kex engine" does not mean we are emulating Quake in Kex, that's not how it does things. We take the original code and basically replace anything system related with Kex's APIs. The rendering code for example is translated into Kex's platform agnostic pipeline. We still run the original playsim, with the original assets. Heck we even used the original netcode this time round, which is actually slightly unusual for these sorts of projects; I normally completely rewrite that, but as Quake was so heavily built around its client/server structure even in singleplayer games, it was easier to simply add modern socket protocols to Quake's existing network drivers then it was to even imagine rewriting that.

 

In my mind, Edward850's frontline dev calluses are so hardened and grizzled at this stage that they could probably do with creating their own DW accounts to combat misinformation and user misunderstandings whilst the actual Edward gets back to work.

[Edward850]

10 minutes ago, Cantleylads said:

 

In my mind, Edward850's frontline dev calluses are so hardened and grizzled at this stage that they could probably do with creating their own DW accounts to combat misinformation and user misunderstandings whilst the actual Edward gets back to work.

I usually just take time to post between code compiles. :P

Quake has been more rough than usual. People have been absolutely picking at it, though I think it's still been better than Blood. People are more generally positive and the new release has received some great reviews (I think Machine Games & Dimensions of the Machine has really helped), but the same points keep getting hammered in by some folk, some more understandable than others (I can comprehend the complaints about Nightmares changes, even if I'm pretty sure it's by people who normally never touch Nightmare).

 

Civvie has been happy though from the outset so I consider that a victory. :V

[Biodegradable]

10 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

I usually just take time to post between code compiles. :P

Quake has been more rough than usual. People have been absolutely picking at it, though I think it's still been better than Blood. People are more generally positive and the new release has received some great reviews

 

You and your collaborators have done a phenomenal job, Ed. I hope people's criticisms haven't taken some of the wind out of your sails. No doubt you'll be able to patch up those loose ends and make the Quake port the best it can possibly be. We're damn lucky to have you Nightdive lads working your magic and bringing new life to the classics.

[Wavy]

14 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

I usually just take time to post between code compiles. :P

Quake has been more rough than usual. People have been absolutely picking at it, though I think it's still been better than Blood. People are more generally positive and the new release has received some great reviews (I think Machine Games & Dimensions of the Machine has really helped), but the same points keep getting hammered in by some folk, some more understandable than others (I can comprehend the complaints about Nightmares changes, even if I'm pretty sure it's by people who normally never touch Nightmare).

 

Civvie has been happy though from the outset so I consider that a victory. :V

Hey. Even with its issues, this is probably the most excited I've been for a video game release this year, and you's certainly didn't disappoint. The fact that I can play Quake on my Switch at all with all these improvements and whatnot is amazing. You's and id certainly went all out with this and outdid yourselves and if it was only Quake and its two expansions, that would be the very least to satisfy me. Knowing you, the rest of Nightdive, and id, these issues can be fixed and addressed to have the definitive version of version of Quake!

[onetruepurple]

On 8/22/2021 at 9:35 AM, Edward850 said:

You can't decompile lights, that's not how that works. The lights are culled out of the final data and in their place is just a lightmap texture. I guess a neural network could reverse that but that's quite beyond any resources we could possibly produce.

You can, however, extract the entity lump from a compiled bsp, which would include all the light entities, and copy those over to the map sources.

 

(Not saying that somebody needs to walk the extra mile to fix the lighting issues in the reissued maps, just pointing that out.)

Edited August 23, 2021 by onetruepurple

[TheUltimateDoomer666]

I can understand why some want the original Nightmare mode, but I prefer the new one as the original was kind of broken and seemed untested. A good example is E1M2: Without moving from the starting position, alert the ogre. On all difficulties except the original Nightmare, and including new Nightmare, the ogre is an actual threat as it will chase the player so it can use its chainsaw. On original Nightmare, the ogre will just stand in place and uselessly spam grenades that never reach the player.

Edited August 23, 2021 by TheUltimateDoomer666

[Edward850]

36 minutes ago, onetruepurple said:

You can, however, extract the entity lump from a compiled bsp, which would include all the light entities, and copy those over to the map sources.

 

(Not saying that somebody needs to walk the extra mile to fix the lighting issues in the reissued maps, just pointing that out.)

Strange, it was my understanding that the compile task removed unnecessary resources. Either way issues such as the unlit pathway are being investigated. It seems to just be the bounce lighting and we should be able to suppress it for that area.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Edward850

[Kinsie]

41 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

Strange, it was my understanding that the compile task removed unnecessary resources.

I believe that's true of Quake 3's q3map2 tools unless you use a "keeplights" argument. However, Quake 1 still seems to have the light entities in the original BSPs if this map decompiler isn't lying to me (and even then, you could cross-reference with the .map file release Romero made years ago).

[THEBaratusII]

Not sure if anyone reported this or not but I discovered a bug with custom maps with jumppads. They don't seem to work as intended and I've provided a comparison to demonstrate this.

 

Usermap is q1dm17.bsp

 

https://imgur.com/a/VHXm7g9