[NOW AVAILABLE] The Ultimate TWANGO - A Deathmatch MegaWAD for The Ultimate Doom

[OpenRift]

2 hours ago, ZeMystic said:

I don't think I'm too comfortable with our midis being switched without at least asking...

I didn't take yours out because I know you had made your levels' MIDIs yourself, so it felt right to leave yours be.

 

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

I do love Alice in Chains of course, but I still don't know why the MIDI was changed? I didn't recognize it as AiC because I listened to it for like 4 seconds and assumed something had gone wrong during compilation.

I had thought that having an AiC song would've been more fitting for the WAD as a whole, and Ram Ranch just seemed a little bit out of place in my mind.

 

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

Yeah, I think it's a pretty lame thing to do. I've had to change MIDIs in projects as well, but only if they were extremely unfitting, or like 40 seconds long. It's not that I don't like the AiC song, it's that it's not the song I chose for the map..

You're right guys, I'm sorry. 

 

I think it's that I get too carried away sometimes and kind of treat the WAD like a MIDI mixtape (MIDtape?). I just wasn't aware how much the MIDIs really meant to you guys in terms of your contributions to the project. I can put back the MIDI you chose originally in the next revision if you want me to. Again, really sorry about that.

[OpenRift]

Hey, just wanted to say I'm really sorry for not attending the beta test tonight, I've got some stuff in my personal life going on right now that unfortunately took a lot more time than I wanted it to.

[THEBaratusII]

7 hours ago, OpenRift said:

Hey, just wanted to say I'm really sorry for not attending the beta test tonight, I've got some stuff in my personal life going on right now that unfortunately took a lot more time than I wanted it to.

 

Your good, at least I attended for at least 30 minutes before I had to head off to bed a little early. Felt tired that day, so I wasn't able to stick around from start to finish.

[Doomkid]

Hey dudes, Gokuma got in touch with me with some feedback, since he put a lot of work into the TWANGO series thus far I figured it was relevant:

 

Quote

Hey Doomkid,

Just checked out the latest compilation today. If Decay (who really does know his shit) offers any specific advice I really wish OpenRift and people would take it. Unfortunately the attitude he's giving makes them tend to disregard his advice. No Ray Mohawk for statbar face this time either? Of course in Zandronum or ZDaemon people may be using various skins anyway.

Overall, could use less damaging nukage/lava and less trappy - either shallower pits or more quick ways out and less crushers.
Faster lifts and doors in some maps where they're too slow.
Could have lifts triggered before you reach them by lines further out ahead.
Episodes 3 and 4 seem to be the strongest sets.

E1M1 (Around) - Large square pillars in western hallway and a Twango wall south of there badly hamper movement.
Improving that should be priority since this map is the first impression of the mappack.

E1m4 (Remote Commerce) - Really liking this map. Probably one of the strongest out of E1 maps but excessive amounts of the big Twango texture. I would change some to other textures or variations.

E1M5 (Punching Bag) - Unescapable Nukage traps and gotta watch momentum grabbing RL.

E1M8 (Disrupted) - Really nice map. Might be best of the episode 1.

E1M9 (Separator) - Really creative visual & lighting ideas.

E2M3 (Deja Vu) - Too many areas blocked off abruptly with dead ends and familiar stuff not accessible or less accessible. No elements of the Doom Alpha versions. Crates needlessly blocking corridor loop. New way into old secret not a priority to figure out since you can grab berserk elsewhere. Map should be a load of fun for telefrags and lots of berserk punching though. Berserk is neglected too often with entire megawads missing it.

E2M4 (Evil Science) Too many slow crushers on way to BFG making that take way too long to be worthwhile.
Faster crushers and less of them would be better.
Gray rectangle in middle south should be narrowed to give more than 64 wide space on both sides to get by it
Otherwise map looks great. Really nice blending of elements.

E2M7 (Hall's Halls). Nice map. Love the tints of rust on classic textures. Just seems like there could be more to this map and I see these great DshScrn1 & 2 textures in the wad I'm surprised I don't find used in this map.

E2M8 (TechnoBabel). Awesome, I'm a sucker for this glorious map. Two cell packs by each plasma seems a little much. But I have been wanting more plasma battles in maps. It seems like something could be improved about its overall flow and layout but I can't put my finger on it.
I like how you can skirt around on the top perimeter of the map.

E3M1 (BloodHenge) Awesome idea and very cool looking. The two mine-like corridors are too long for how narrow they are making them deadly cattleshoots with little room to maneuver. Breaking them up with immediate rooms would be a good improvement.

E3M2 (Slough of Dwango) - Hilarious concept. Two points could use improvement. The switch to lower the way to the BFG is a little far around, making time really tight to get around in time. So it's likely in play that whoever hits the switch is rarely going to get it. The central setpiece of a globe appears awesome in the automap but you should be able to get on top of it somehow, whether it's lower or there's another way. As long as there's no VPO's or HOM when standing on top.

Love the E3M5 (1000 Years of Unholiness) Hell adaptian of E1M1 and E3M6 (Mount Minibus)
E3M5 could maybe use a little extention where part of E1M1 is missing but it's probably a great DM map the way it is.
E3M6 could maybe use a way around or extra passages in or out of some parts but it seems good and looks great.

E3M8 (Deez) not sure how to improve this other than faster lifts. Maybe some more structure to use as cover in wide open spaces. And more quick stairs around and/or lifts that are trigged by lines so they're down and ready to go back up when you reach them.

E3M9 (Cowbows From Hell) Awesome map. Great Hellish Western theme. Love the Blood Cactii. Clever vanilla arches a la Nemesis.wad.

E4M3 (Bloodtub) Lava pit deadend really hurts this otherwise good map.

E4M5 (Unrepented) and E4M8 (Wicked Sick) Two best looking maps and good layouts.
Didn't test in vanilla doom.exe but holy shit they're impressive.
E4M5 supposed to have no music? Quick looked in wad and currently there's a mapinfo just for that map and it's missing a music setting.
Typed idmus27 to hear what will normally be its music and it was fitting.

I can't remember which but there was some map that seemed to have a solitary teleporter into disconnected area. Obviously that's a really bad idea for deathmatch as some scrub can just camp and blast whoever teleports in. I always have multiple destinations, sometimes each line of the same square going to a different destination, or the destination otherwise connected to the rest of the map.

I guess E2M8, E3m9, E4M5, and E4M8 are my favorites.

 

[Dusty_Rhodes]

I really like the pillars and with as much testing as I've done in multiplayer and with bots they've been a non issue, but I guess I can get rid of them. The Twango wall, on the other hand, makes sense to remove; it's pretty intrusive. My one fear is that it might cause an HOM or something of the like. That's why it was there in the first place heh. I'll edit and test in a few minutes and if everything works in Choco Doom, I'll upload. 

 

I wish I could get some thoughts on the gameplay on E1M1, most feedback I've gotten has been telling its bad without too much description. I personally find it fun, but I'm sure there's always room for improvement.

 

I do agree Decay definitely knows what he's talking about. Thanks Doomkid and Gokuma.

[JustAthel]

Hmm, any suggestions what I could use in place of some TWANGO imagery? I thought it was pretty good the way I used them but I can understand if some could think it's too much, I tried to mirror sort of how some DWANGO maps used their logo

[Dusty_Rhodes]

Round and Around.zip

 

Here's E1M1. I cleaned up the visuals even more, there were some ugly texture choices and some odd alignments from using the "A" key a little too often. I removed the pillars and wall and it's much more open. Flows pretty well imo.

 

I changed the midi as well, now it's Caffeine.mid which I got here

 

[ZeMystic]

16 hours ago, Doomkid said:

[...]

E1M5 (Punching Bag) - Unescapable Nukage traps and gotta watch momentum grabbing RL.

[...]

E2M8 (TechnoBabel). Awesome, I'm a sucker for this glorious map. Two cell packs by each plasma seems a little much. But I have been wanting more plasma battles in maps. It seems like something could be improved about its overall flow and layout but I can't put my finger on it.
I like how you can skirt around on the top perimeter of the map.

 

I just checked to make sure for E1M5 that it doesn't have inescapable pits, I did tag the elevators for them. I just made them deep because I like falling lol.

Also thank you on E2M8, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm not fully sure how I'd increase the flow of the map, but I'll be happy to take a look around in the editor before the next beta comes out.

 

Thanks for the notes and feedback @Gokuma!

 

[Blast_Brothers]

Blast_Brothers Final Updates.zip

 

Made changes based on feedback from the playtest. Let me know if there are any problems.

[NieMaMordy]

Hi! I would like to ask for my map to be removed from this wad (currently taking e2m9 slot). I am not satisfied with the direction this community project took. Most of the feedback me and others gave you either goes ignored, or is considered a toxic behavior. Some of you really did improve upon reading it, and your maps are great (especially @Redead-ITA, @Walter confetti and @Pistoolkip. Great job you guys!), but the fact that maps such as E1M3 or E3M8 either look or are generated by computer really bothers me, especially since they are accepted by everyone else. OP of this project seems not to care about what others made at all, changes essential stuff without asking others for permission, adds Slade map to the roster as if there were not enough people wanting to participate in the project, does not give any feedback regarding the maps (saying a map is good/bad is not a valid feedback), disappears for weeks and is generally very distant person. Sorry guys. This project is not my cup of tea. 

[Pistoolkip]

17 minutes ago, NieMaMordy said:

Hi! I would like to ask for my map to be removed from this wad (currently taking e2m9 slot). I am not satisfied with the direction this community project took. Most of the feedback me and others gave you either goes ignored, or is considered a toxic behavior. Some of you really did improve upon reading it, and your maps are great (especially @Redead-ITA, @Walter confetti and @Pistoolkip. Great job you guys!), but the fact that maps such as E1M3 or E3M8 either look or are generated by computer really bothers me, especially since they are accepted by everyone else. OP of this project seems not to care about what others made at all, changes essential stuff without asking others for permission, adds Slade map to the roster as if there were not enough people wanting to participate in the project, does not give any feedback regarding the maps (saying a map is good/bad is not a valid feedback), disappears for weeks and is generally very distant person. Sorry guys. This project is not my cup of tea. 

It's general etiquette in community projects to be open to mappers of different styles and skill levels. But since this is a DM WAD one or more mediocre levels has a much greater impact on the player experience then in a single player WAD, where you can just skip the level or finish it and forget about it.

I am also on the verge of taking out my maps. A lot of the people involved seem to have no interest in playtesting or improving their maps, which is a shame, as the whole project suffers for it. 

[Dusty_Rhodes]

Honestly I understand both of your views points. I'm personally keeping mine in, as I've put a lot of work into them and have been trying to improve after all the feedback. It's a shame, I really enjoy your maps @NieMaMordy and @Pistoolkip

 

I know I'm not the project lead or anything, but I wish you guys the best. It was a lot of fun working with you. 

[JustAthel]

I too am keeping my map in, and if need be I could throw my hat in the ring should we need any more maps. I can see why the OP would be away from the project for so long and I can even empathize. I can respect your guys' points, and I do wish you guys the best!

[Gibbon]

4 hours ago, NieMaMordy said:

Hi! I would like to ask for my map to be removed from this wad (currently taking e2m9 slot). I am not satisfied with the direction this community project took. Most of the feedback me and others gave you either goes ignored, or is considered a toxic behavior. Some of you really did improve upon reading it, and your maps are great (especially @Redead-ITA, @Walter confetti and @Pistoolkip. Great job you guys!), but the fact that maps such as E1M3 or E3M8 either look or are generated by computer really bothers me, especially since they are accepted by everyone else. OP of this project seems not to care about what others made at all, changes essential stuff without asking others for permission, adds Slade map to the roster as if there were not enough people wanting to participate in the project, does not give any feedback regarding the maps (saying a map is good/bad is not a valid feedback), disappears for weeks and is generally very distant person. Sorry guys. This project is not my cup of tea. 

I will take the spot if they don’t want it :)

[OpenRift]

Alright, NieMa, what have you come to rant about today?

21 hours ago, NieMaMordy said:

I would like to ask for my map to be removed from this wad (currently taking e2m9 slot). I am not satisfied with the direction this community project took. Most of the feedback me and others gave you either goes ignored, or is considered a toxic behavior.

I don't have to listen to change my maps based on every criticism you make. You especially, because I'm gonna be honest here, you are really annoying. And that's coming from me, the vanilla-obsessed weirdo that bothers WAD authors about compatibility and other pedantic nonsense. 

 

21 hours ago, NieMaMordy said:

Some of you really did improve upon reading it, and your maps are great (especially @Redead-ITA, @Walter confetti and @Pistoolkip. Great job you guys!), but the fact that maps such as E1M3 or E3M8 either look or are generated by computer really bothers me, especially since they are accepted by everyone else. 

E1M3 was the first map ever made for this project, long before the project was ever announced. It was based on an oblige map. Heavily modified, but an oblige map nonetheless. I tested that map out with my friends back when I made my first revision and we had a blast playing it. I put it in the WAD because it's a fun map. This is a community project about bringing fun DM maps to Ultimate Doom. And across my playtests, it's still been fun to play. Doesn't matter how it was made.

 

As I've explained before, E3M8 is seen as kind of a joke map. It's literally called 'Deez'.

 

Now, let's dissect this ad hominem nonsense you've got here. 

21 hours ago, NieMaMordy said:

OP of this project seems not to care about what others made at all,

How? Literally this whole project hinges on what others have made for it. Of course I care about what others have made.

 

21 hours ago, NieMaMordy said:

changes essential stuff without asking others for permission,

If you're even reading the thread, you'd know that this was a misunderstanding about MIDIs and how much contributors valued them in conjunction with their maps. If you're upset because I moved your map to E2M9, I told you why I did it, and honestly, your map is kind of ugly anyway and doesn't make good use of the space it takes up.

 

21 hours ago, NieMaMordy said:

does not give any feedback regarding the maps (saying a map is good/bad is not a valid feedback)

How ironic for you to say that, given that's literally how you've given feedback at times. It's not my job to give massive essays of feedback. I'm no Dean of Deathmatch, so I'm not going to write a small essay about each and every map in the set. I'm generally not as picky as some people are about deathmatch maps (because I have a low bar), so I'm just happy to have something that flows well that I can have fun playing with people. 

 

21 hours ago, NieMaMordy said:

disappears for weeks and is generally very distant person.

Listen kiddo, what I do in my own time is my business. Since I started this project, I've been going through some rough mental health stuff, the gauntlet of agony that college has become for me, and now I'm dealing with the grim reality that I'm dropping out. Have some fucking consideration. Now get the fuck out of my thread and don't come back.

 

End of Discussion.

 

mod note: user was warned for their tone in this post.

[Redneckerz]

5 hours ago, NieMaMordy said:

Hi! I would like to ask for my map to be removed from this wad (currently taking e2m9 slot). I am not satisfied with the direction this community project took. Most of the feedback me and others gave you either goes ignored, or is considered a toxic behavior.

Where is the evidence for this? Because you were all onboard as recent as February 13 and on March 1 were told of the reason of Rift's absence.

 

Quote

OP of this project seems not to care about what others made at all, changes essential stuff without asking others for permission, adds Slade map to the roster as if there were not enough people wanting to participate in the project, does not give any feedback regarding the maps (saying a map is good/bad is not a valid feedback), disappears for weeks and is generally very distant person.

This sounds exceedingly hostile and conflicts with recent posts as linked above. The only actual comment is about the sudden midi change but that hardly justifies the tone and vibe i am getting here, let alone the slew of accusations mentioned (Any record of Rift adding a Slade map for the reason mentioned?).

 

Rift had midterms so there is one reason they weren't here. I feel there is something missing here. Perhaps that happened off site but as it stands this comment sounds overly hostile.

Quote

Sorry guys. This project is not my cup of tea. 

It would suck if you left instead of talking things through.

 

EDIT: it seems that's off the cards :/

4 hours ago, Pistoolkip said:

I am also on the verge of taking out my maps. A lot of the people involved seem to have no interest in playtesting or improving their maps, which is a shame, as the whole project suffers for it. 

Maybe Rift can provide better direction?

Edited March 23, 2022 by Redneckerz

[OpenRift]

4 hours ago, Pistoolkip said:

I am also on the verge of taking out my maps. A lot of the people involved seem to have no interest in playtesting or improving their maps, which is a shame, as the whole project suffers for it. 

We just did a big playtest last Wednesday with the USDQC! Lil Ruff, the event organizer said it was a pretty good turnout too, up to 20 people! We did a vanilla playtest the Saturday before that in my Discord! Me, @Gibbon, and @Mr. Kong were literally playing on Zandronum today! We have been playtesting, you just haven't been there to do it with us, at least recently. Honestly, I'd really hate for you to leave, because your maps are awesome to play, and are some of the best maps of Episode 4. 

[Pistoolkip]

1 hour ago, OpenRift said:

We just did a big playtest last Wednesday with the USDQC! Lil Ruff, the event organizer said it was a pretty good turnout too, up to 20 people! We did a vanilla playtest the Saturday before that in my Discord! Me, @Gibbon, and @Mr. Kong were literally playing on Zandronum today! We have been playtesting, you just haven't been there to do it with us, at least recently. Honestly, I'd really hate for you to leave, because your maps are awesome to play, and are some of the best maps of Episode 4. 

 

 

That's right, I haven't been able to playtest because all playtesting has been done at times that are in the middle of the night for people in the EU. You can't expect me to show up at 3 AM.

 

But while it's good that there is playtesting done, there is very little evidence of it. I remember some vids of the first playtesting session, but all feedback was what we had the gather from one person's POV and some text chat.

 

Even then, quite a number of mappers never answered or implemented any of the written feedback given in this thread.

 

I don't blame you BTW, but I do think some action is warranted. Some mappers need to implement feedback or have their maps removed. 

 

 

[Gibbon]

16 minutes ago, Pistoolkip said:

 

 

That's right, I haven't been able to playtest because all playtesting has been done at times that are in the middle of the night for people in the EU. You can't expect me to show up at 3 AM.

 

But while it's good that there is playtesting done, there is very little evidence of it. I remember some vids of the first playtesting session, but all feedback was what we had the gather from one person's POV and some text chat.

 

Even then, quite a number of mappers never answered or implemented any of the written feedback given in this thread.

 

I don't blame you BTW, but I do think some action is warranted. Some mappers need to implement feedback or have their maps removed. 

 

 

 

EU too (CZ).  Yeah it can be tough, though Myself and Mr. Kong did it from 22:00 until 00:00 for us.  I know those times can be hard, but if we did it in our afternoon, it would be the middle of the night for the US folks, so someone has to make a little sacrifice now and then :)

 

E1M3 definitely was awesome, no idea what that was about.  Personal attacks are pretty low bar..

Edited March 23, 2022 by Gibbon

[Pistoolkip]

12 minutes ago, Gibbon said:

 

EU too (CZ).  Yeah it can be tough, though Myself and Mr. Kong did it from 22:00 until 00:00 for us.  I know those times can be hard, but if we did it in our afternoon, it would be the middle of the night for the US folks, so someone has to make a little sacrifice now and then :)

 

E1M3 definitely was awesome, no idea what that was about.  Personal attacks are pretty low bar..

 

When?

Cause I'm fine with doing some 22:00 testing

Just not after midnight

 

 

[Gibbon]

1 minute ago, Pistoolkip said:

 

When?

Cause I'm fine with doing some 22:00 testing

Just not after midnight

 

 

 

We did it yesterday and organised it from Discord.  For sure you're welcome to join in the next time round.  @Mr. Kong could send you the invite.

[JustAthel]

Just as a note, if we're planning on releasing this to idgames and the like, they don't take kindly to Oblige maps, even if they've been heavily modified. The layout does make for some interesting gameplay, however other players are going to notice the Oblige-ness right off the bat, no matter how modified it may be. If I may, I'd like to recommend the layout stay the same with some slight changes (since you can't really trademark a layout anyhow) but see if we can get rid of the more obvious parts that Oblige generates. If we're not aiming for idgames archive or if something's already been discussed to allow it, then do ignore me :p

EDIT: I also feel really bad for missing more playtests, including the ones I didn't even know about! If there's any others happening any time soon, please do keep me in the loop! :D

Edited March 23, 2022 by Athel

[JustAthel]

Apologies in advance for the double post, but I have made a few more small tweaks to my map, Remote Commerce, which can be downloaded here.

 

Changelog:

• Replaced some instances of TWANGO1 with SILVTHEL and COMPSTA1
• Adjusted some sectors for better symmetry in some rooms
• Lowered shotgun alcove in the lower-north side so players can run into it.
• Put deathmatch starts on top of weapons, it should now be more consistent across the board
• Added some slight detailing to a TWANGO sign
• Replaced a shotgun on the far western side with a chaingun and clips, with the intent being to give both the chaingun and shotgun equal opportunities to be grabbed
• Added a couple of stimpacks in some notable corners to give a slight edge to those trapped
• Made the stone hallway/stairs in the south part of the map slightly more curvier, this shouldn't be too noticeable

If there are any other tweaks I can make to this map, do let me know!

[magicsofa]

1 hour ago, Athel said:

Just as a note, if we're planning on releasing this to idgames and the like, they don't take kindly to Oblige maps, even if they've been heavily modified

I don't think it will be a problem since it's only one map in a set of 36.

When I played E1M3 I didn't notice the oblige-ness anyway. Not that I really think it needs to be hidden - it's one map, it was still worked on by hand, and its origin is public information.

People trying to remove their maps as a statement... please take a step back. You offered to contribute of your own free will, and nobody is keeping you here. Voicing your concerns is valid and helpful - using your map as a bargaining chip is not. We're doing this for fun, and all of us have the freedom to leave the project at any time, with no consequence other than fellow member's opinions of us. As a contributor to any project, I focus on keeping my word. I might respectfully criticize a project lead, but only with good reason and knowing that, at the end of the day, the leader(s) gets the final decision. If their project was a real train wreck, I might say so, but redacting my contribution only seems warranted if there's something absolutely glaring about the end result that actually hurts my own credibility and character. Like, if I found out the project had some sort of racist or otherwise bigoted message. @OpenRift has been open to people's suggestions and willing to make changes - I couldn't ask anything more of a project lead who is doing this for free. So let's all give ourselves a break and get back to what we love, mapping and DMing!

[Mr.Rocket]

Hi, I guess I've been a little out of the loop since the last time I was here. I'm not really sure what to say about the things that have recently conspired.

 

Anyway, I saw Gokuma's review and I'm sort of wondering if he was running the right version as a couple things he mentioned I've actually updated in my last re-version of the level.

 Also the recent reversion had updates to what Pistoolkip and NieMaMordy suggested in both E2M3 and E2M6. 

Anyway, what grabbed my eye was:

On 3/18/2022 at 9:43 PM, Doomkid said:

E2M3 (Deja Vu) -  No elements of the Doom Alpha versions. Crates needlessly blocking corridor loop. 

 

Well, I had no idea I was suppose to make the map have Alpha version elements in it? heh. 

Also, the original E2M3 map has a wall there instead of crates. The wall of course would block access, so I decided to put crates there so the other player could see if anyone was back there before running around said loop area, which was never an actual loop.

 

When I made the map, the intention was to only resemble the original UD level, but of course, be a fun DM level.  ;)

The level isn't really my style, but it turned out to be a very playable level, even bots seem to like it!

I've always had the feeling that it may be too iconic to be fitting though.

 

It's funny when you think about it, because If I were to change up the level to not look like the original, no one would complain that it's missing parts of the original, or what they would expect to see. heh

~ I never intended to recreate the entire level though, it would be too big for DM and I don't want players spending their time trying to find each other instead of fragging each other. ;)

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Mr.Rocket

[Arrowhead]

Just wanna say, I played this during WNDM, (at least an earlier version of this) and I quite enjoyed it - I had never had a reason to play Doom1 deathmatch up to that point.

 

I didn't think I would like it, due to the fact of not having an SSG - but that wasn't as big of a problem as I thought. I only ended up playing the first episode, and some of the second, so I can't comment on the project as a whole, but what I saw was pretty fun.

 

I know I'm not involved in this TWANGO, (I was MAP28 in TWANGO-1) I just wanted to express that I've had fun w/ this project so far.

 

:)

[Dusty_Rhodes]

On 3/23/2022 at 11:24 AM, magicsofa said:

I don't think it will be a problem since it's only one map in a set of 36.

When I played E1M3 I didn't notice the oblige-ness anyway. Not that I really think it needs to be hidden - it's one map, it was still worked on by hand, and its origin is public information.

People trying to remove their maps as a statement... please take a step back. You offered to contribute of your own free will, and nobody is keeping you here. Voicing your concerns is valid and helpful - using your map as a bargaining chip is not. We're doing this for fun, and all of us have the freedom to leave the project at any time, with no consequence other than fellow member's opinions of us. As a contributor to any project, I focus on keeping my word. I might respectfully criticize a project lead, but only with good reason and knowing that, at the end of the day, the leader(s) gets the final decision. If their project was a real train wreck, I might say so, but redacting my contribution only seems warranted if there's something absolutely glaring about the end result that actually hurts my own credibility and character. Like, if I found out the project had some sort of racist or otherwise bigoted message. @OpenRift has been open to people's suggestions and willing to make changes - I couldn't ask anything more of a project lead who is doing this for free. So let's all give ourselves a break and get back to what we love, mapping and DMing!

Yeah the "bargaining chip" thing is pretty rude, even if their feelings are valid. Also how does E1M3 seem like it was computer generated? It never seemed so to me. Have you played a SLIGE map? That's what a computer made level looks like heh. Besides, it's not like Rift just plopped it in, there's clearly changes made and things done to it. You also make a good point about the openess, CC2 is on idgames and it's 3rd level is a modified SLIGE map, so why is a modified OBLIGE map a sin here? It plays well too, fun level. I think people need to relax and just take a step back. Let's all try and make this wad as good as it can be.

 

Anyway, glad you said all this, it captured what I was thinking better than I ever would've! :p

[JustAthel]

38 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

You also make a good point about the openess, CC2 is on idgames and it's 3rd level is a modified SLIGE map, so why is a modified OBLIGE map a sin here? 

 

Well if I would take five minutes to shut up and start playing through CC2, I would have known :p My bad!

[Dusty_Rhodes]

23 minutes ago, Athel said:

 

Well if I would take five minutes to shut up and start playing through CC2, I would have known :p My bad!

It's no big deal! I get your point, especially since idgames is very against SLIGE maps (rightfully so). But they're okay with it if the levels are edited and posted with good intentions. I could be wrong, are there any maintainers to ask? Any of them on Doomworld?

[Pistoolkip]

Here's some of the footage from last night's playtesting: