What are some sleeper wads?

[Dusty_Rhodes]

So with Doom, we all know that everyone should play Ancient Aliens, Scythe 2, Alien Vendetta, Scythe, Hell Revealed 1 and 2, Equinox, Community Chest 1 and 2, TNT Revilution, Sunlust, Combat Shock 1 and 2, Sigil, etc, etc, until the end of time. There's a canon to Doom wads, so the "you need to play this if you're new" list is expansive

 There's plenty more incredible, widely- played wads I could throw in there (Rowdy Rudy and Ray Mohawk series', Demonfear, Valiant, Vanguard, Nulspace.wad, Memento Mori II, Requiem, BourgDM, Jenesis, etc, etc. again). There's a reason these wads are popular, they're incredibly fun, unique, stylish, well designed (mostly, looking at you Hell Revealed duology and CChest 1 and 2). 

 

However, what are some sleeper wads? Ones that don't get Cacoawards or that are featured in the Top 100 Wads list, or the Memorable Maps list.

What wads do you think stack up to the Doom community's best, but aren't recognized enough?

 

So this essentially an underrated wads list. Bonus points for Heretic, Hexen, or DM wads. 

[StrangerRanger]

The Merry Christmassy Doom Project, not sure how popular it is, but it's definitely worth playing, especially during Christmas time.

[Dusty_Rhodes]

6 minutes ago, StrangerRanger said:

The Merry Christmassy Doom Project, not sure how popular it is, but it's definitely worth playing, especially during Christmas time.

What mapping style is it? I've never looked into Christmas wads. I'll have to check it out.

[StrangerRanger]

19 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

What mapping style is it? I've never looked into Christmas wads. I'll have to check it out.

Check it out yourself :)

[P41R47]

There was a similar thread almost a year ago, but this is always good to let those underrated project come to light.

Here is the list i made for that thread, but added a few more that i think actually fit in this category:
 

-Fragport, in the same vein of Eternal Doom and TNT: Evilution. Pretty good exploration maps.

-Interception, save for a little bug on map19, this megawad is a blast. Hope that now the sequel is getting release, someone fix it.

-Atonement, really good mapset, hope @Moustachio return to it after completing Interception 2.

-The Invasion, by Paul Fleschute. Really good complete megawad for Ultimate Doom. Some really fun maps here. Last episode feels rushed.

-Baculus and Sinergy by @Crunchynut44, both are awesome mapsets vanilla style. Hope Baculus get out of RC (EDIT AS TODAY: it come out from RC, but its still not playable on other port than zdoom base ports because a bug on the texture1).
-Czechbox, already mentioned, but this mapset is awesome fun.
-Doom II: RELOADED, pretty much what would be if Doom 2 was made by teamTNT. Awesome mapset!
-Doom 404 by Capellan, the epitome of hard map without being an slaughterfest, and reduced to its minimun space. Marvelous and hard as hell.
-Mars War, take all that is bad about doom mapping and make something good with that. Fun and beautiful.
-Tangerine Nightmare, awesome medieval style with a new palette that gives it a peculiar and outstanding look.
-The Journey, limit removing mapset made by one man. Fun and really good. Needs more love!
-Three is a Crowd, this is the most imaginative and experimental project that come out for vanilla mapping in a long time. Love it!
-Urania, hate Plutonia Experiment? well, you didn't tried his longer, harder, and badass big brother. Perfectly mixes TNT with Plutonia and make something awesome.
-Doom: Damnation, Ofisil made Ultimate Doom fun again.

-Realm of Chaos, this one is as good as Memento Mori II, if not better.
-CPD amazing limit removing megawad, really similar to the absolutely marvelous Vile Flesh, if not better.
-25 Years on Earth limit removing megawad that is a tribute to our really old favourite game.

-The Beggining of the End and it sequel, Natural Tvventy before he get awarded was really really good and almost no people know it.

-Dark Covenant vanilla love to the max with some really big city maps.

-Moonblood awesome mapset that is really overlooked.

-The Abyss vanilla megawad that has amazing puzzles and feels a lot like Indiana Jones meet Doom.

-Gods & Guardians 6 mostly vanilla outtakes from DTWID that are really good on their own.

-Wonderful Doom play again the old classic Ultimate Doom as if it was new but kinda familiar at the same time. The true and only DTWID.
-Zones of Fear, another czech megawad. This guys are amazing!
-2048 Units of /vr/ a community project from a community outside of the community. Simply amazing megawad!
-180 minutes pour vivre, Frech Doom community making something far better than their already awesome 3 heures d'agonie serie
-NJ Doom 2, one of the first megawad for Doom 2, and it still holds up pretty well for today.

-Bloodstain runner up or not, this one is seriously overlooked.

-Killing Adventure and it sequel, sometimes we want to fool around.

-32 Inch Nails, Eternal experimenting and left us mouth open.

-Osiris, Doom meet Stargate and Jeremy Doyle made some of the best track ever.

-H2H-Xmas, one of the very first megawads ever made, and a hell of a ride with a great challenge Plutonia Style. Perfect when coupled with Doomxmass.

-Whitemare and Whitemare 2 by the Russian Community are speedmapping projects, but both are some of the best winter themed mapsets out there. The first one is neat and has a good amount of large maps. The second one is an amazing adventure style mapset that offer a great challenge and was also a runner-up for the cacowards.

-A.L.T. a masterfully made tour de force deep psychophilosophycal mapset that breaks the boundaries of adventure and challenge with absolute meaning and mindfuck. It won one of the 25 missed cacowards.
-Sacrament, by the same team behind A.L.T. and the first one to show the meaning of Russian realism on Doom mapping style. It also win one of the 25 missed cacowards.

-Oops! All tech-Base a serious joke wad made to fool those unprepared. This is serious treat, so don't take it lightly just for being the usual early encountered tech base we all know.

-NOVA a begginers mappers serie that made some absolutelly interesting and awesome mapsets, with some maps by community veterans.

-DBP16: Cyb's Freaky Colonoscopy, deep adventure into the monster infected ass of a Cyberdemon. Masterfull challenge with awesome sights. No joke, but a serious one at the same time.

-Doom Zero, the most authentic Id style mapset on the recent times, but with a new puzzleish approach that makes it pure awesome and offers a nice challenge.

-Switcheroom, pretty much, far more DTWID than the original DTWID. Awesome mapset that baffles me why its not more know at all as it plays just amazingly.

-The 64kb Challenge, 64 maps made on the limitation that maps must be just as 64 kb once complete. Separated on 32 vanilla maps and 32 limit removing maps. This one has great imput from amazing mappers and almost nobody notice it.
-The 128 kb mapping extravaganza, sequel to the previos project, but this time for Ultimate Doom and Boom format. This are serious fun, and there are a lot of fun ideas in here.

And here are some new ones i found entertaining:

-Doom 2 In Spain Only, a serious joke wad that we needed for really long.
-Plutonia 7, another joke wad, yes, but pretty good at it and without being unfair. Also, it is a great example on analizing the Casali Bros. style.

-HFFM mapset that may be controversial so it comes in different flavours. The maps are really fun and challenging, so if one can go over the controversy, its a hell of a ride.

-Hellevator, a community project on a limited space. Great challenge and awesome fun!

-Skulltiverse, spiritual sequel to Hellevator. An awesome ride of great fun.

-Adolf In Hell, a good fun over the top serious joke wad that lean into a What If for the little man in Hell.

-DBP37: Auger;Zenith one of the best adventure styles mapsets that come on the recent times. A visual treat with amazing soundtrack and excellent gameplay.
-KINDa, a mapset that come out of nowehere and its a good excersise on puzzle solving along a good challenge. Expect some switchhunting.

-GOTTAGOFAST! an amazing set of neat short fast action maps that may be compared to some of the best on this style.

-Zone400 by Paul Corfiatis one of the most prolific and long standing map authors of the community. Bit sized maps with great challenge and all under the limitation of just 400 linedefs.

-Uprising by Cheesewhell. After CPD, Cheese surprise us with a greatly enjoyable, quite atmospheric and amazingly challengin mapset.

-Down the Drain by Benjogami, slaughter-lite maps with great challenge and kinda crappy look mostly on purpose. Give it a try, i don't like much slaughter maps but i had a lot of fun playing this 32 vanilla maps almost in a row.

-Switcheroom 2, released this year, is a great sequel to another great project. The maps are just amazing reimagining of the original Doom 2 maps, but made on another theme. Think they are easy, not at all, this maps are serious fun! And again, far more D2TWID than the actual D2TWID.

-UnMaking by Ryath, a Doom 64 complete megawad on Ryath's master prankster unmistakeable style.

-TNT Goes Boom by The_Slovinator, a reimagining of TNT: Evilution. 11 maps released soo far, but this one promise to be a beast amazing proportions.

Edited September 13, 2021 by P41R47

[Dusty_Rhodes]

44 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

There was a similar thread almost a year ago, but this is always good to let those underrated project come to light.

Here is the list i made for that thread, but added a few more that i think actually fit in this category:
 

-Fragport, in the same vein of Eternal Doom and TNT: Evilution. Pretty good exploration maps.

-Interception, save for a little bug on map19, this megawad is a blast. Hope that now the sequel is getting release, someone fix it.

-Atonement, really good mapset, hope @Moustachio return to it after completing Interception 2.

-The Invasion, by Paul Fleschute. Really good complete megawad for Ultimate Doom. Some really fun maps here. Last episode feels rushed.

-Baculus and Sinergy by @Crunchynut44, both are awesome mapsets vanilla style. Hope Baculus get out of RC (EDIT AS TODAY: it come out from RC, but its still not playable on other port than zdoom base ports because a bug on the texture1).
-Czechbox, already mentioned, but this mapset is awesome fun.
-Doom II: RELOADED, pretty much what would be if Doom 2 was made by teamTNT. Awesome mapset!
-Doom 404 by Capellan, the epitome of hard map without being an slaughterfest, and reduced to its minimun space. Marvelous and hard as hell.
-Mars War, take all that is bad about doom mapping and make something good with that. Fun and beautiful.
-Tangerine Nightmare, awesome medieval style with a new palette that gives it a peculiar and outstanding look.
-The Journey, limit removing mapset made by one man. Fun and really good. Needs more love!
-Three is a Crowd, this is the most imaginative and experimental project that come out for vanilla mapping in a long time. Love it!
-Urania, hate Plutonia Experiment? well, you didn't tried his longer, harder, and badass big brother. Perfectly mixes TNT with Plutonia and make something awesome.
-Doom: Damnation, Ofisil made Ultimate Doom fun again.

-Realm of Chaos, this is on par with the original Memento Mori, if not better.
-CPD amazing limit removing megawad, really similar to the absolutely marvelous Vile Flesh, if not better.
-25 Years on Earth limit removing megawad that is a tribute to our really old favourite game.

-The Beggining of the End and it sequel, Natural Tvventy before he get awarded was really really good and almost no people know it.

-Dark Covenant vanilla love to the max with some really big city maps.

-Moonblood awesome mapset that is really overlooked.

-The Abyss vanilla megawad that has amazing puzzles and feels a lot like Indiana Jones meet Doom.

-Gods & Guardians 6 mostly vanilla outtakes from DTWID that are really good on their own.

-Wonderful Doom play again the old classic Ultimate Doom as if it was new but kinda familiar at the same time. The true and only DTWID.
-Zones of Fear, another czech megawad. This guys are amazing!
-2048 Units of /vr/ a community project from a community outside of the community. Simply amazing megawad!
-180 minutes pour vivre, Frech Doom community making something far better than their already awesome 3 heures d'agonie serie
-NJ Doom 2, one of the first megawad for Doom 2, and it still holds up pretty well for today.

-Bloodstain runner up or not, this one is seriously overlooked.

-Killing Adventure and it sequel, sometimes we want to fool around.

-32 Inch Nails, Eternal experimenting and left us mouth open.

-Osiris, Doom meet Stargate and Jeremy Doyle made some of the best track ever.

-H2H-Xmas, one of the very first megawads ever made, and a hell of a ride with a great challenge Plutonia Style. Perfect when coupled with Doomxmass.

-Whitemare and Whitemare 2 by the Russian Community are speedmapping projects, but both are some of the best winter themed mapsets out there. The first one is neat and has a good amount of large maps. The second one is an amazing adventure style mapset that offer a great challenge and was also a runner-up for the cacowards.

-A.L.T. a masterfully made tour de force deep psychophilosophycal mapset that breaks the boundaries of adventure and challenge with absolute meaning and mindfuck. It won one of the 25 missed cacowards.
-Sacrament, by the same team behind A.L.T. and the first one to show the meaning of Russian realism on Doom mapping style. It also win one of the 25 missed cacowards.

-Oops! All tech-Base a serious joke wad made to fool those unprepared. This is serious treat, so don't take it lightly just for being the usual early encountered tech base we all know.

-NOVA a begginers mappers serie that made some absolutelly interesting and awesome mapsets, with some maps by community veterans.

-DBP16: Cyb's Freaky Colonoscopy, deep adventure into the monster infected ass of a Cyberdemon. Masterfull challenge with awesome sights. No joke, but a serious one at the same time.

-Doom Zero, the most authentic Id style mapset on the recent times, but with a new puzzleish approach that makes it pure awesome and offers a nice challenge.

And here are some new ones i found entertaining:

-Doom 2 In Spain Only, a serious joke wad that we needed for really long.
-Plutonia 7, another joke wad, yes, but pretty good at it and without being unfair. Also, it is a great example on analizing the Casali Bros. style.

-HFFM mapset that may be controversial so it comes in different flavours. The maps are really fun and challenging, so if one can go over the controversy, its a hell of a ride.

-Hellevator, a community project on a limited space. Great challenge and awesome fun!

-Skulltiverse, spiritual sequel to Hellevator. An awesome ride of great fun.

-Adolf In Hell, a good fun over the top serious joke wad that lean into a What If for the little man in Hell.

-DBP37: Auger;Zenith one of the best adventure styles mapsets that come on the recent times. A visual treat with amazing soundtrac and excellent gameplay.
-KINDa, a mapset that come out of nowehere and its a good excersise on puzzle solving along a good challenge. Expect some switchhunting.

-GOTTAGOFAST! an amazing set of neat short fast action maps that may be compared to some of the best on this style.

-Zone400 by Paul Corfiatis one of the most prolific and long standing map authors of the community. Bit sized maps with great challenge and all under the limitation of just 400 linedefs.

Hey thanks for the reply! I find that when you reply to my posts, your detailed and longer review type responses always make me want to drop what I'm doing and play Doom. I appreciate it. Also, these are some great examples. 

 

>Invasion 

 

Yeah this one is pretty cool. Love all the custom graphics and music. 

 

>Czechbox

 

This one is really good, and has Damned as one of the mappers. He's a great guy, and very talented. Helped me a lot with my Parallel Doomensions maps (be looking forward to that wad, it'll be a good one). 

 

 

>Doom 404

 

Capellen is one of my all time favorite mappers, and I love this wad. Really good stuff. 

 

I have a lot to play now, thanks again.

[Rudolph]

Just started playing Vile Flesh, which to my surprise was made in 2004, and yet I have never heard of it until very recently.

 

It even features an original soundtrack!

[Dusty_Rhodes]

18 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Just started playing Vile Flesh, which to my surprise was made in 2004, and yet I have never heard of it until very recently.

 

It even features an original soundtrack!

Surprising, many didn't back then. Is it good?

[Rudolph]

24 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

Surprising, many didn't back then. Is it good?

I am only 12 maps in, but so far, yes!

 

In terms of level design and soundtrack, I would compare it to a proto-Back to Saturn X. Of course, it does not feature a custom color palette and new textures like the latter, but there is something about the mapset that reminds me of projects like Back to Saturn X.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Rudolph

[Dusty_Rhodes]

1 minute ago, Rudolph said:

I am only 12 maps in, but so far, yes!

 

In many ways, I would compare it to a proto-Back to Saturn X - albeit without the custom colour palette and original textures.

Very interesting, BTSX: Get Out of My Stations is a favorite. I'll be sure to check it out.

[cannonball]

A good piece that might help you out…

 

https://www.doomworld.com/25years/top-25-missed-cacowards/

 

Vile Flesh is on this list. Honest opinion, it is a bit rough around the edges and using the likes of Eternal Doom as inspiration might not be the best decision. However there is a lot of charm, some cool levels and pieces in there and the soundtrack is excellent and entirely original.

[Noiser]

On 9/12/2021 at 10:42 AM, Dusty_Rhodes said:

What wads do you think stack up to the Doom community's best

Here's some WADs that should have received a cacoward imo: Vile Flesh, Moonblood, Estranged, Akeldama, CPD, Bloodstain, Baculus, Sinergy, ALT, Lunar Catastrophe, The Journey

Edited September 18, 2021 by Noiser

[LadyMistDragon]

Urania, Unholy Realms, maybe 180 Minutes Por Vivre (though that was a runner-up), New Doom Community Project (just as one that never gets talked about in any context these days), some of the PUSS projects, Fragor Portum, whatever Snaxalotl did this year, and Hymn: A Heretic Community Project. Many of the ones listed by P4 aren't really all that underrated. (Zone 400 for instance, which is very good but about as popular as it should be).

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael Jensen]

Cleimos II is the best classic 90's wad that isn't acknowledged on Top 100 and whatnot. 

[Dusty_Rhodes]

1 hour ago, LadyMistDragon said:

Urania, Unholy Realms, maybe 180 Minutes Por Vivre (though that was a runner-up), New Doom Community Project (just as one that never gets talked about in any context these days), some of the PUSS projects, Fragor Portum, whatever Snaxalotl did this year, and Hymn: A Heretic Community Project. Many of the ones listed by P4 aren't really all that underrated. (Zone 400 for instance, which is very good but about as popular as it should be).

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah Zone 400 is great, but fairly well known. Urania looks right up my alley, I really should check it out.

[Dusty_Rhodes]

1 hour ago, A.H. Sankhatayan said:

Cleimos II is the best classic 90's wad that isn't acknowledged on Top 100 and whatnot. 

I've never heard of it, what's it like? Techbases? I love me some techbases.

 

[Dusty_Rhodes]

2 hours ago, cannonball said:

A good piece that might help you out…

 

https://www.doomworld.com/25years/top-25-missed-cacowards/

 

Vile Flesh is on this list. Honest opinion, it is a bit rough around the edges and using the likes of Eternal Doom as inspiration might not be the best decision. However there is a lot of charm, some cool levels and pieces in there and the soundtrack is excellent and entirely original.

I checked the list, very cool stuff on there. Although Golden Souls and Scythe X are very well known, it's no biggie. This was what I was looking for, thanks!

[Michael Jensen]

6 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

I've never heard of it, what's it like? Techbases? I love me some techbases.

 

There are some, it's very varied. The first half is just alright, then it becomes amazing. Very unique levels. There is also Cleimos, but the maps were included in Cleimos II, so no point in playing that. Although there is an extensive story included. If that interests you, download the first one as well. 

[Endless]

If you like classic/retro WADs, I'd also recommend the Wadarcheology project. It's pretty much dedicated to recovering and reviewing classic obscure WADs with little popularity. Lots of sleeper hits and hidden gems to find.

 

 

[Lippeth]

Lunar Catastrophe - A wad for Ultimate Doom that I feel is just as good if not better than DTWID.

URE: 2020 - A unique old school wad that was started in 1995 and lost for over a decade, recovered on a floppy disk and finished last year.

Akeldama - A modern classic and a must-play for anyone.

 

For Hexen, it doesn't get much better than the Cyrgoth trilogy Cyrgoth's Manor, Cyrgoth's Revenge, and Afterlands.

[Rudolph]

3 hours ago, cannonball said:

Vile Flesh is on this list. Honest opinion, it is a bit rough around the edges and using the likes of Eternal Doom as inspiration might not be the best decision.

I have never played Eternal Doom myself. Is there something wrong with it?

[Dusty_Rhodes]

1 hour ago, Endless said:

If you like classic/retro WADs, I'd also recommend the Wadarcheology project. It's pretty much dedicated to recovering and reviewing classic obscure WADs with little popularity. Lots of sleeper hits and hidden gems to find.

 

 

I follow this, and when I'm not using my free time mapping, will gladly contribute. I like to flex my writing muscles, keeps me thinking. And what better subject to write about than 90s Doom wads? Thanks for that thread, it's great stuff.

[Magicana]

7 hours ago, P41R47 said:

There was a similar thread almost a year ago, but this is always good to let those underrated project come to light.

Here is the list i made for that thread, but added a few more that i think actually fit in this category:

-Oops! All tech-Base a serious joke wad made to fool those unprepared. This is serious treat, so don't take it lightly just for being the usual early encountered tech base we all know.

 

 

The theme was a bit light hearted, but I wouldn't call it a joke wad :P.

 

(I'm sensitive but if you look at the credits you'll know why).

[Dusty_Rhodes]

15 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

I have never played Eternal Doom myself. Is there something wrong with it?

Well it's very long, 32 large maps. Not only are the maps some of the biggest made for vanilla Doom, they are combat dense. There's tons of barons, cacos, chaingunners, and other beefy monsters. So you have large maps, full of enemies, but Team TNT and Team Eternal didn't think it was enough; no, it's also puzzle and trap heavy. Most progression is through obscure puzzles, which is not everyone's cup of tea. When I say maps will take over an hour to complete first time around, I am not exaggerating.

 

I personally really enjoy Eternal Doom, and it features great maps from one of my favorite designers, Jim Flynn. What people like are the traps, large areas to explore, grand architecture, variety of environments, such as starships, castles, cities, and outdoor areas, narrative, both written in the wad and in it's story .txt file, the new textures, variety of mappers, and (generally) high quality maps (ie they look nice, are well built).

 

What people don't like: the music, very short tracks on very large maps, even though they loop well, it gets quite repetitive, the puzzles, sadistic is the only word to describe them, Map30 is legendary for it's switch hunt, the traps, some people like them, some hate them, the size, some say the levels are simply too large.

 

This is all generalizing the Doom community though, so people love it, others hate it. It's probably the most divisive classic wad. Most have played, but love or hate ios the only response. I've never seen someone have a neutral / moderate opinion on Eternal Doom.

 

 

1 hour ago, Lippeth said:

For Hexen

Someone gets bonus points! :p

[Rudolph]

9 minutes ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

Well it's very long, 32 large maps. Not only are the maps some of the biggest made for vanilla Doom, they are combat dense. There's tons of barons, cacos, chaingunners, and other beefy monsters. So you have large maps, full of enemies, but Team TNT and Team Eternal didn't think it was enough; no, it's also puzzle and trap heavy. Most progression is through obscure puzzles, which is not everyone's cup of tea. When I say maps will take over an hour to complete first time around, I am not exaggerating.

I see. Well, so far, this does not seem like it is the case in Vile Flesh, but again, I am only 12 maps in. 

 

Maybe Back to Saturn X was not the best comparison, as the maps are nowhere near as vast and detailed, but, save for maybe one map or two, I am having no difficulty finding my way around. Granted, I have played through the Marathon Trilogy, but I also struggle with No End In Sight's third episode and Doom II Reloaded's infamous MAP32, so I do not know...

Edited September 12, 2021 by Rudolph

[P41R47]

5 hours ago, Rudolph said:

I am only 12 maps in, but so far, yes!

 

In terms of level design and soundtrack, I would compare it to a proto-Back to Saturn X. Of course, it does not feature a custom color palette and new textures like the latter, but there is something about the mapset that reminds me of projects like Back to Saturn X.

If i had to compare Vile Flesh to something, i would say it Alien Vendetta.
And it was already compared to Alien Vendetta far more times before i reached the same conclusion.
Back To Saturn X is kinda a bad comparison point as it appeared almost like 10 years after Vile Flesh.
 

46 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

I have never played Eternal Doom myself. Is there something wrong with it?

Not wrong, but the maps are soo large that its easy to get lost on them.
For example, the normal time for map20: Central Processing, the longest map of TNT:Evilution is 20-30 min.

well, the normal time for almost every map of Eternal Doom is around the 30 min, and some maps, no joking, i played them for almost like 2 hours long.
That long are they, and all under vanilla limits.

The problem is not that they are just big and large, is that the progression is kinda convulted and lean more to the puzzle side and pretty much to the switchhunting and go figure what the switch did.

In short, as it was one of the very first mapset that offered something else beside just monster killing, it suffered from the experimentation and the implementation of the new concepts it developed.

Alien Vendetta is the first mapset that followed on the steps of Hell Revealed and Eternal Doom together, making large and detailed maps with dense combat but far better streamlined to not become a switch fest or hours long fest collection of maps.

Vile Flesh, while it use Eternal Doom as inspiration, doesn't fall at all under the switchhunting or figuring what the hell the switch did, for that reason it is far more similar to Alien Vendetta than anything else.

Another map that even streamlinded far more the gameplay of both Alien Vendetta and Vile Flesh is EPIC 2, Eternal's vanilla masterpiece.
I can risk to say that its the first modern mapset. Much like Alien Vendetta was the first of it generation.
 

34 minutes ago, Magicana said:

 

The theme was a bit light hearted, but I wouldn't call it a joke wad :P.

 

(I'm sensitive but if you look at the credits you'll know why).

oh, please, i didn't called it a joke wad.

i called it a SERIOUS joke wad.
I made a thread explaining the difference between the joke wads and the serious joke wad, for short, the later actually have good design and offer quite a challenge, but are silly in nature, pretty much for the laughs of it, or just as a political idiological rant/joke, kinda like Mars War and Doom 2 In Spain Only.

[Rudolph]

5 minutes ago, P41R47 said:

If i had to compare Vile Flesh to something, i would say it Alien Vendetta.

I have yet to play Alien Vendetta as well, so that is good to know!

 

And in my defense, I have initially called Vile Flesh a proto-Back to Saturn X. :P

[P41R47]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

And in my defense, I have initially called Vile Flesh a proto-Back to Saturn X. :P

Back to Saturn X actually come from another place.

The Darkening Ep.2 is the first one that one may look up to similarities on the old maps, maybe Alien TC if we can force the things a little more, but the true progenitor of BTSX is Suspended in Dusk by Espi, a 2005 short 4 vanilla mapset that blows everybody head when it was released, and it is still just mindblowind by today standars.

The Darkening Ep.2 and Suspended in Dusk weren't a peak challenge like AV. VF is quite easy on UV, too.
I recently played EPIC 2 and i found some little similarities on the tech base maps to BTSX, but mostly aesthetic things.

Wich i found interesting of EPIC 2 is the way it streamlined the gameplay, the encounters, and much of the monster placement without loosing the details of the maps.
In that way, it may have been also influential on the development of BTSX.

Edited September 13, 2021 by P41R47

[baja blast rd.]

5 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

Urania, Unholy Realms, maybe 180 Minutes Por Vivre (though that was a runner-up), New Doom Community Project (just as one that never gets talked about in any context these days), some of the PUSS projects, Fragor Portum, whatever Snaxalotl did this year, and Hymn: A Heretic Community Project. Many of the ones listed by P4 aren't really all that underrated. (Zone 400 for instance, which is very good but about as popular as it should be).

 

Yeah if you treat runners-up, especially after 2015, as "underrated" according to the premises of the OP, you can end up with a massively bigger pool of "underrated wads" than award winners in a given year, which starts looking pretty weird. The top-20 (or even 30) in 2017+ is deeper than the top-10 of older years like 2004, and runner-ups should be in the same category as the Cacowards and the Top 100 lists.

[Dusty_Rhodes]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

I see. Well, so far, this does not seem like it is the case in Vile Flesh, but again, I am only 12 maps in. 

 

Maybe Back to Saturn X was not the best comparison, as the maps are nowhere near as vast and detailed, but, save for maybe one map or two, I am having no difficulty finding my way around. Granted, I have played through the Marathon Trilogy, but I also struggle with No End In Sight's third episode and Doom II Reloaded's infamous MAP32, so I do not know...

Ooooh I love Marathon. Those Aleph One guys are awesome.