Do you think Doom 2 city maps are so "medieval"?

[omx32x]

15 minutes ago, Redoom said:

Doom 2 takes place in 1994, according to eternal lore from a Google search

doom 2 was released on 1994 but it takes place in the future

[Zulk RS]

Yep! 1994 is the release date. I believe Doom 2 takes place in what the 22nd or 23rd century? I don't really know.

[Gibbon]

I never understood the Doom 2 theme.  I know they were not going for a realistic approach, but no streets, no buildings.  It's like everyone lived in places with keycards and lifts :)

[Gez]

22 hours ago, IconOfRetard94 said:

Before, i think the demons are only "braindead" creatures that only can do is destroy and kill, but now i see that they are intelligent lifeforms that can build complex structures

I always interpreted it as it's not the demons who build stuff. They exist only to destroy, after all. No, it's just Hell itself that builds all that stuff. Canonically it warps existing structures into hellified ones, see this text screen: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/File:Text_screen_before_M07.png

"The monsters have brought their own reality with them, and the starport's technology is being subverted by their presence."

So demons aren't doing anything constructive. Their simple presence is enough to warp stuff around them.

 

This is also apparent in the first game. Like, right out of the gate, E1M1: Hangar: what the heck are those skull-adorned candelabras doing in a space base on one of Mars' moons?

I don't think this was standard-issue UAC furniture. Even if in Doom 2016 they've retconned the UAC as demon cultists; this was not the original plan in 1993. (Heck, the UAC isn't even really involved in the plot in Doom. They've just built the bases that they are renting out to the military; it's the military that is performing these teleportation experiments...)

 

You can also see how the Deimos base in episode 2 is more thoroughly warped, with a lot of material being turned into stone and wood instead of concrete, metal, and plastic.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Gez

[omx32x]

37 minutes ago, Gibbon said:

I never understood the Doom 2 theme.  I know they were not going for a realistic approach, but no streets, no buildings.  It's like everyone lived in places with keycards and lifts :)

i always though the "we are going for abstract design" was just an excuse for them not knowing how to map at that time

its possible to go abstract and still make your places belivable doom 64 did a great job at this with is funny since it takes place mostly in hell

 

tnt also did a good job on this and i know it isnt fair to say it but doom zero is my favorite exemple of this its abstract but still the design makes sense

[BetelgeuseSupergiant]

Most of Doom 2 maps have very abstract visual design, so it doesn't seem to me that you need to look for some meaning in it

Edited September 29, 2021 by BetelgeuseSupergiant

[printz]

Well, places like Inmost Dens, Courtyard and Citadel look pretty much like real life castles and citadels (both medieval and ancient), which may very well be historical touristy parts of cities. It's far easier to design a citadel than a multi-story tower building, and more satisfying for gameplay. I'm pretty sure you have visited citadels and thought "how cool if this were in Doom!". Meanwhile, everyone avoids rendering realistic tower blocks and skyscrapers in Doom, because nobody wants to visit the same copy-paste layout 15 times. Levels like MAP13 and MAP15 are seldom and unrealistic artistic attempts at such; id didn't even want to repeat them for too many levels.

 

Alternatively, MAP18 might as well be a shopping mall. But instead of texturing it as such a mundane place (a mall), it's textured to look like a dungeon. Yay!

[7Mahonin]

Why do the nazis leave all their food on the floor in Wolfenstein 3D? Why doesn’t the wizard in the catacombs just nuke the whole catacomb with his spells from the outside and kill everything down there all at once? Why does Commander Keen need to do any of the crap he’s doing when he should be in school? Why is Rover such a dumb dog that can’t keep up with his owner to get away from the robots for good? 

Edited September 29, 2021 by TelicAx7

[Zulk RS]

1 hour ago, TelicAx7 said:

Why do the nazis leave all their food on the floor in Wolfenstein 3D? Why doesn’t the wizard in the catacombs just nuke the whole catacomb with his spells from the outside and kill everything down there all at once? Why does Commander Keen need to do any of the crap he’s doing when he should be in school? Why is Rover such a dumb dog that can’t keep up with his owner to get away from the robots for good? 

 

Why does the Cyberdemon shoot rockets out of his crotch?

[Maes]

If anything, the urban levels in Doom 2 look like a construction site, slum or junkyard, including the liberal use of chipboard/strand board wood constructions, containers very plain building shells etc.

[Wadmodder Shalton]

Doom II city maps almost looks like a mix of Total Recall with elements of the 1993 Super Mario Bros movie.

[CBM]

1 hour ago, Zulk RS said:

 

Why does the Cyberdemon shoot rockets out of his crotch?

his arm is just there as an ornament... his actual missile launcher is in his crotch

[Zulk RS]

58 minutes ago, CBM said:

his arm is just there as an ornament... his actual missile launcher is in his crotch

Gives a whole new meaning to the term "Face Rocket" doesn't it ;)

[CBM]

40 minutes ago, Zulk RS said:

Gives a whole new meaning to the term "Face Rocket" doesn't it ;)

Yep! :-)

[SovereignX9]

For me personally, they don't really look like anything lol. Just some weird abstract collection of buildings. Your medieval theme is interesting though, I can see what you're saying. They just never really looked like anything specific to me, just random Doom II stuff if that makes sense.

 

It almost reminds me of like maps that were never finished properly or weren't fine tuned or were like taken out of the game mid development, like maps that were never completed past beta. That's the vibe the earth levels give me.

[garu32]

It smells like Quake ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Koko Ricky]

I sometimes find it odd that id made so many new textures for Doom 2, and maybe half a dozen of them are appropriate for a future Earth...

[jghfugg29833]

I think they look more like mazes that happen to be wide, the limitations of the original 1993 engine would only allow you so much and i think that is reflected on the level itself, because if you need arrows pointing where the player needs to go then there is something wrong going on.

[Gibbon]

19 hours ago, Gez said:

I always interpreted it as it's not the demons who build stuff. They exist only to destroy, after all. No, it's just Hell itself that builds all that stuff. Canonically it warps existing structures into hellified ones, see this text screen: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/File:Text_screen_before_M07.png

"The monsters have brought their own reality with them, and the starport's technology is being subverted by their presence."

So demons aren't doing anything constructive. Their simple presence is enough to warp stuff around them.

 

This is also apparent in the first game. Like, right out of the gate, E1M1: Hangar: what the heck are those skull-adorned candelabras doing in a space base on one of Mars' moons?

I don't think this was standard-issue UAC furniture. Even if in Doom 2016 they've retconned the UAC as demon cultists; this was not the original plan in 1993. (Heck, the UAC isn't even really involved in the plot in Doom. They've just built the bases that they are renting out to the military; it's the military that is performing these teleportation experiments...)

 

You can also see how the Deimos base in episode 2 is more thoroughly warped, with a lot of material being turned into stone and wood instead of concrete, metal, and plastic.

And I wonder how they stay lit?  Hangar has no Windows and so a majority carbon dioxide atmosphere isn't conductive to candles staying lit :)

Edited September 30, 2021 by Gibbon

[Walter confetti]

I don't think to have seen many medieval-style maps in the city episode of Doom 2, apart of The Inmost Dens (even if it's more "spanish" in architecture, looks like a old west fort to me), The Courtyard and for some extent also The Citadel and Gotcha!

Even the tenements looks more modern, like a old mansion been renovated and fortified... Still don't get why there's mine tunnels surrounding the place, but is still cool.

[Koko Ricky]

11 hours ago, jghfugg29833 said:

I think they look more like mazes that happen to be wide, the limitations of the original 1993 engine would only allow you so much and i think that is reflected on the level itself, because if you need arrows pointing where the player needs to go then there is something wrong going on.

Several people have attributed the odd look of the city maps to the time period, but games from that era like Cyclones, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Lethal Tender, and RDF Global Conflict all made earnest attempts at outdoor Earth environments, utilizing engines similar to Doom's.

 

Were they memorable, impactful games? No, but through some pretty simple textures, geometry and sprites, the setting is conveyed pretty clearly. I think id intentionally eschewed the potential for Doom maps to appear realistic and grounded, in favor of experimentation and strong layouts. I think they could have done a mix of both, but here we are. 

[IconOfRetard94]

If anyone cares. In my city, there is a stadium that the fronts looks like so much to the front of "Courtyard" level. Unfortunately, i forget completely to take a picture to show you, but in another ocation, i will take a picture to the front.

Edited September 30, 2021 by IconOfRetard94

[jeremieh]

On 9/28/2021 at 2:49 PM, IconOfRetard94 said:

In my opinion, the city levels of Doom 2 looks so medieval and not futurist. About Tenements... who have an acid pool with dirt bridge on the yard? Why the buildings are lighted with torches? Why some buildings are builded with bricks and wood and indeed we are in future? And what real life location is "O of destruction"?

 

Sorry for my bad english again lol

i think it's because of A the demonic influence and B a primitive doom level

[slugger]

People say this "Super Mario Brothers" game is good, but I tried it once and it made no sense at all. Mushrooms were drawn the size of men, and the ground was a grid of blocks. I don't know what they were thinking. Mushrooms are small.

 

Seriously though, I think all the strange elements are just supposed to be stuff from hell. Hell needn't be all redrock and lava, it's also wood mazes, castles full of torture devices, walls made of skin, etc. assorted brutish nastiness. When the portal experiments opened access to Hell all the weirdness bled through. Also the zombiemen do interior decoration when there's nothing to shoot.