The Long Trek Back Home [Doom2 vanilla megawad] 1.1 released

[Rudolph]

@hervoheebo I would recommend making MAP03's exit teleporter more obvious, like adding a visibly different floor texture to the star-shaped area delineated by tech pillars. Had I not been looking at the automap, I would have probably accidentally walked into the exit teleporter.

 

Also, in MAP04, how do I trigger the Arachnotron ambush again?

Edited December 26, 2021 by Rudolph

[hervoheebo]

13 hours ago, Rudolph said:

@hervoheebo I would recommend making MAP03's exit teleporter more obvious, like adding a visibly different floor texture to the star-shaped area delineated by tech pillars. Had I not been looking at the automap, I would have probably accidentally walked into the exit teleporter.

 

Also, in MAP04, how do I trigger the Arachnotron ambush again?

Hmm, possibly, it follows on the theme of the exits going "up" instead of "down" in hell, and it's also in the original start room, with the torches rearranged to form a star which is the teleporter... however this room is a crossroads instead of a dead end, and the ceiling could also be lower, it's not easy to see the portal shape on the ceiling.

The arachnotrons in the main room are released by going near the tech lamp with the sawtooth light pattern around it. The idea is that taking the rocket launcher makes the room dark and going near the lamp makes it bright again, but that also releases the spiders.

[Rudolph]

@hervoheebo Oh, you are right! I guess it is really to miss... much like the exit teleporters! :P

[Rudolph]

I am on MAP11 now. The encounters are fine, but I think you have gone way overboard with the damaging floor, as it seems impossible to make it through the long stretch to the exit and the subsequent Revenant ambush without succumbing to floor damage. Honestly, this feels like the kind of gauntlet you would throw at the end of a map where you are expected to die.

 

All in all, this map could definitely use less blurspheres and more radsuits, especially in the final area!

Edited December 27, 2021 by Rudolph

[hervoheebo]

3 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

I am on MAP11 now. The encounters are fine, but I think you have gone way overboard with the damaging floor, as it seems impossible to make it through the long stretch to the exit and the subsequent Revenant ambush without succumbing to floor damage.

 

This map could definitely use less blurspheres and more radsuits, especially in the final area!

For the main level there are 7 suits in all, these should be enough to get all the extra areas and the keys, although it obviously depends on whether you know where everything is. The final suit is revealed when the floor to the final area lowers, the idea is that you take it and run straight to the next area ahead. There you have to wait for the door to the exit to lower which also activates the revenants. Since the corridor is so long, it discourages you from returning, and the excessive invisibilities there are more like obstacles, since they make the non-homing shots of the monsters scatter and saturate the area. The topic of damaging floors was remarked upon, but regarding other levels probably, some sandbars and an extra suit or two were added to the abandoned mines and tenements, since the slime isn't supposed to be that big a feature in those levels. The upper district of 11 might have used a third suit since the pattern of keen doors is probably still not very clear and this one is indoors with slime around it. I don't really understand however how you could miss the suit on the way to the exit though, did you take it and then go back to explore?

[Rudolph]

Yes.

[Salt-Man Z]

4 hours ago, hervoheebo said:

I don't really understand however how you could miss the suit on the way to the exit though, did you take it and then go back to explore?

I did the same--and saved again before returning to the final arena, so that I was therefore unable to beat the level without cheating (I think I just gave myself another radsuit in the GZDoom console.) As it's pretty much a point-of-no-return anyway, it might be worth changing it so that you're locked into the final arena somehow and can't otherwise waste the radsuit.

[Rudolph]

Half a dozen blurspheres feels really excessive anyway: only one blursphere and a couple of radsuits are what the area really need.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Rudolph

[hervoheebo]

I see, that's interesting, even what seem really simple set-ups in your mind often end up being moon-logic puzzles or even more annoyingly, unwinnable situations. This bit is actually copied from the Alien Queen level in Duke Nukem 3D, before the boss there is a long stretch with slime and the boots have just enough power to get you through that. I thought that was interesting because it's a more implicit point of return rather than having a ledge or closing door or something. However in there, the boss area wasn't damaging. It might make sense to make the revenant area non-damaging, that way the slime corridor still makes sense, with the whole damaging floor theme the level has. You can still return but risk taking much damage from the corridor if the suit runs out. It is a compromise but being so strict with the high concepts and "design is law!" attitude doesn't always work so well. Still, as a matter of policy new versions aren't made for soft game play concerns, so we will have to deal with this for now, unless some bad crashes or similar come up. 

Regarding the blur spheres, I think having just one would make it seem more like a powerup than a trap... if you take it, then activate the monsters and none of them shoot bullets, you'd get pissed that you got tricked. If there are 11 invisibilities there it should seem rather suspicious. 

[Rudolph]

@hervoheebo Yeah, but the Blurspheres still count as Count Items, so you are compelled to pick them up in order to get 100% Items.

 

Also, keep in mind that the Duke Nukem 3D level you are mentioning is the final one of the game whereas MAP11 is not even the half of the mapset. Plus Duke Nukem 3D's Boots can be activated at any time and are not used on non-hazardous terrain, unlike Doom's Radiation Suit.

 

I guess my whole gripe with the design of the final area is that the whole level is covered in damaging slime and as such you are compelled to use as many radsuits as you can to fully explore the map to get all the secrets, so it never occurred to me to save at least one radsuit for later.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Rudolph

[Faceman2000]

4 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

@hervoheebo Yeah, but the Blurspheres still count as Count Items, so you are compelled to pick them up in order to get 100% Items.

Very few players go for 100% items. It’s okay that you do but he doesn’t need to change his map to appeal to such a small subset of players.

[Somniac]

Still really enjoying this set, it's been a while since I really invested the time to get into a megaWAD (and there have been plenty released recently) but this one is holding my attention for sure.

 

I do echo the comments above that Gotcha! Does have a few too many damaging floors, but I made it in the end.

[Rudolph]

15 minutes ago, Faceman2000 said:

Very few players go for 100% items.

How do you know that?

[Faceman2000]

31 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

How do you know that?

The average player doesn’t go for 100% anything. Those who do try to 100% things generally stick to UVMAX rules, which do not require 100% items. It’s just a small subset that feel a need to get all the items too - after all, grabbing an extra health vial you missed five minutes back doesn’t add anything to gameplay, but a missed secret or monster might.

[Rudolph]

@Faceman2000 You talk as if someone did a study on the subject. Is there such thing? If so, where can I read it?

[Faceman2000]

30 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

@Faceman2000 You talk as if someone did a study on the subject. Is there such thing? If so, where can I read it?

General observation, mostly. Here’s some anecdotal threads, however:

 

[Rudolph]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the links!

[Rudolph]

What is the track you used for MAP31? It sounds familiar, but it is not a remix of "Evil Incarnate" and I cannot put my finger on what it is.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I noticed that there are two red keycards in MAP16. How come?

Edited December 30, 2021 by Rudolph

[hervoheebo]

10 hours ago, Rudolph said:

What is the track you used for MAP31? It sounds familiar, but it is not a remix of "Evil Incarnate" and I cannot put my finger on what it is.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I noticed that there are two red keycards in MAP16. How come?

Wolfenstein 3D - "Victors"

 

They are considered two branching paths. When you jump into the gray wall, the right teleporter is the 'hard but fast' way and the left is the 'easy but slow' way.

The right takes you next to the mancubus if you didn't kill him, and then to the bank by way of the blue key. Some complications are released from the bank vault but you then get the red key right away.

The left on the other hand takes you to the wooden warehouse with some shooting and crate mazing, and then you have to shuffle along the tall and thin ledge to get to the red key.

You can explore both paths if you are so inclined (or more likely are just looking where to go next) but alternate paths like these are more intended for purposes of replay value.

[Rudolph]

I admit, I lost my patience trying to get all the secrets in MAP16. I got ten of them, but the rest, I just noclipped my way to them, as I could not figure out how to get to them and I felt like I had wasted enough time already.

 

Anyway, while I really did not like MAP31 (having to run over multiple damaging floors while trying to figure out where you should go is not my idea of fun), I did love what you did with MAP32, which is a much-welcome improvement over its honestly boring vanilla counterpart!

[hervoheebo]

9 hours ago, Rudolph said:

I admit, I lost my patience trying to get all the secrets in MAP16. I got ten of them, but the rest, I just noclipped my way to them, as I could not figure out how to get to them and I felt like I had wasted enough time already.

 

Anyway, while I really did not like MAP31 (having to run over multiple damaging floors while trying to figure out where you should go is not my idea of fun), I did love what you did with MAP32, which is a much-welcome improvement over its honestly boring vanilla counterpart!

 

Secret levels.

Spoiler

31 is mostly built sort of like a puzzle. When you first go to the maze you pass through a U-shaped room where the 'bottom' part is a crusher, a straight corridor with a damaging floor and two walls in the middle, and a diamond-shaped room with barrels. When you get to the maze, the initial room is nondescript but has a computer map. With that you can see where the doors are, and the maze in general. On the west is a locked door, from the map you can see that there are 2 others behind it so logically you need all the keys. What should stand out in the plan are the 3 Nazi Swastika shaped rooms, 3 as in 3 keys.

 

Now the maze proper basically consists of those 3 types of rooms you passed through: U, corridor and diamond. Therefore, since there are no enemies creating 'emergent' situations, it's actually possible to plan out your route to the 3 swastikas beforehand and then just do it like that. The main thing to watch out for are the damage floor corridors. There are helmets in them to reduce the damage a little, but only once. The hardest part is the diamond that leads to a swastika and is connected to a corridor's damage floor. Otherwise, there's no need to take damage from the barrels or the crushers, although bullets are tight enough in this level that punching the barrels with the berserk fist is helpful to save ammo if risky. I've never really tried it but from looking at the map, one route is possible where you don't cross any damage floors in the maze except the mandatory one in the north. It should be the safest although far from the fastest. If you have trouble with that, there is an invulnerability secret in the corridor directly east of that.

 

So that's the idea. The idea of navigating by secret doors that you see with the map only might be used for a more conventional level but for this one only environmental dangers were used in the maze. Since it's a secret level it has a license to be a little odd... although I do hold that it is solvable the 'right' way with the clues given, at least that was the intention.

 

For both the secret levels there are a few tricks used to make the gameplay 'feel' a bit more wolfenstein..... also aesthetically and in terms of gimmicks to try to go beyond the originals.... I think the straight conversion of the two levels was amusing for exactly once especially when they were kind of half-assed. With the oversized rooms, and with the weak SS that don't have firing sprites for all directions. The boss is just a random cyberdemon... The hellish secret area is basically the only interesting thing about the original map31 and 32 to me.

 

  Anyway, in Map31 Comm Satellite (name and the entrance are a Quake 2 reference), the only weapons are the berserk fist, pistol and chaingun. If you run out of ammo, you have to use the fist, that's like in Wolf3d. Different than Doom in that you either have ammo or not, there are no different types. There's the 'aardwolf' secret in the maze... which is in spirit supposed to be like that strange secret maze in episode 2 of wolf3d.

 

Then in Map32 Dark Side, your main weapon is the shotgun, but the SS drop clips. This is like in RTCW, where you have better weapons, but have to use the worse ones sometimes to save ammo. Of course in Doom it's basically a given that you get the chaingun if you get bullets, using the pistol after getting another gun probably rarely comes into mind for most. Also there are a few rocket launchers there, but no rockets, since they are supposed to be like PanzerFausts. You'll notice in the secrets there are four helmets arranged in a grid pattern, as if to mimic the treasure items in Wolfenstein. In the Hitler corridor, 3 of the paintings have fake walls, with imps firing from behind them. This is like the 'Fake Hitler' enemies in the Hitler level of Wolf3d. As for the Spider/Hitler battle, you finally get the chaingun for it, and that's really the only weapon you can use, so it's like the bosses in Wolf3d. The ammo and big health are arranged around the arena like you would see in that game, and the tactics are also similar: especially if you don't have the blur sphere, you ought to use the pillars as cover, shooting at the boss so that he can't shoot you, since he's wider.

 

[Johnny Cruelty]

hey, you ever consider doing a sequel to this? like maybe with ultimate doom or plutonia?

[Salt-Man Z]

Seeing as how this was just recently bumped, let me just say that I played this back in Nov-Jan, and am still thinking about it! (And I was happy to see it get a mention in the Cacowards, congrats!) One of these days I'll get around to nominating it for a playthough with the Megawad Club...

[Suitepee]

https://youtu.be/0S7pxZpa0x4 = part 1.

https://youtu.be/2K-5K41HjjU = part 2.

https://youtu.be/eoUkqfc2icc = part 3.

https://youtu.be/itpIi3kJCf8 = part 4.

 

Overall a somewhat interesting experience, with the novelty of the megawad sort of waning around the middle but being carried by mapper quirkiness (particularly that one part in The Pit) and some interesting re-interpretations of "Doom 2 maps in reverse".

Edited September 25, 2023 by Suitepee

[hatehatehatehate]

Came up in shuffle today, and just giving some love to the creator. Fantastic experience.