Dominus Diabolicus - MBF21 33-map megawad [now on idgames]

[Captain Keen]

4 hours ago, Rudolph said:

As for the Vanguard, I would highly recommend giving the enemy distinct active and idle sounds in order to make it easier for the player to locate it and dodge its potentially lethal shot. Realm667's Super Shotgun Zombie uses Quake 1's Grunt sounds, but since yours wears a helmet, maybe the Enforcer would be a more suitable candidate?

I like this idea!

[bofu]

4 hours ago, Rudolph said:

@bofu Thanks for the tip!

 

As for the Vanguard, I would highly recommend giving the enemy distinct active and idle sounds in order to make it easier for the player to locate it and dodge its potentially lethal shot. Realm667's Super Shotgun Zombie uses Quake 1's Grunt sounds, but since yours wears a helmet, maybe the Enforcer would be a more suitable candidate?

 

As for MAP12, that might prove to be an unpopular opinion, but I do think the coliseum-esque arena might be a bit too difficult: even with the BFG9000 from an early level, I struggled quite a lot to not get overwhelmed by the initial wave of Pinkies while having to worry about the Revenants' homing missiles and it took me many attempts, some save-scumming and a bit of luck to make it through.

 

I thought I was out of sounds to work with (since Crispy Doom doesn't let you use the extra sound slots that come with MBF/DEHEXTRA, it seems), but I forgot that I did stop using the Wolfenstein SS sounds (the Vanguard replaces the SS), so it's possible I could come up with something! I'm trying to avoid using resources from other games where possible, but I do have audio recording equipment and sound design experience, so maybe I'll make my own custom sounds.

 

As for MAP12: while that fight is one of the tougher ones, with enough practice, I guarantee it's quite doable. The Revenants will struggle to hit you if you back up toward the bars, since only half of them will be able to see you (and that will also be a half you can pelt with rockets). If you do that as soon as the fight starts (maybe after tossing a few rockets into the door on your left to soften up the Demon hordes), you can switch to the SSG when pinkies get close. Using the BFG in that fight actually puts you at a significant disadvantage, as killing the enemies on the ground too quickly robs you of meatshields from both the enemies left on top and the second wave of enemies that comes in some time after. Generally speaking, that fight should be clearable with only the rocket launcher and the super shotgun, which is why that's the ammo that's lying around there.

 

(The fight is also a bit easier on HMP, though I understand not wanting to dial it down and losing your progress - but I don't think there's anything wrong with saving before a big fight.)

[Rudolph]

Maybe you could just take the default Zombieman sounds and add a radio voice effect to make it sound like they are coming from behind a helmet?

 

I know Realm667's Cyber Imp did something similar and it works well to tell them apart from their regular counterpart.

[bofu]

45 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Maybe you could just take the default Zombieman sounds and add a radio voice effect to make it sound like they are coming from behind a helmet?

 

I know Realm667's Cyber Imp did something similar and it works well to tell them apart from their regular counterpart.

Great idea! I'll add it for the next (er, final-ish, since I'm not posting more maps until MAP30 is done!) release.

Edited April 1, 2023 by bofu

[Treehouseminis]

These are really fun so far.  I just got to the hell levels but map07 is my favorite currently.  Very nicely designed city level. 

[Rudolph]

Okay, I made it to MAP15 and that is unfortunately probably where I am going to call it quits, as the difficulty has reached a point where it is no longer fun for me. I had to type the Buddha command in order to make it through MAP14 without constantly dying/save scumming, but on the plus side, I did not notice any bugs and I was able to get all the secrets. I might revisit the mapset with gameplay mods (e.g. ContraDoom) once it is complete, though.

 

Sorry!

[bofu]

38 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Okay, I made it to MAP15 and that is unfortunately probably where I am going to call it quits, as the difficulty has reached a point where it is no longer fun for me. I had to type the Buddha command in order to make it through MAP14 without constantly dying/save scumming, but on the plus side, I did not notice any bugs and I was able to get all the secrets. I might revisit the mapset with gameplay mods (e.g. ContraDoom) once it is complete, though.

 

Sorry!

 

Might I recommend trying it in HMP? As I said in the OP, skill levels are implemented in the wad for a reason, and there is a considerable difference in difficulty between HMP and UV.

[Rudolph]

I might do that, but I just do not like playing Doom on a lower difficulty setting, as it just makes me feel like I am missing out on the full experience.

[taviow]

In my personal opinion, I think you should try to get the experience that is fun for you. If that occurs in a lower difficulty level, then so be it. I'm sure @bofu spent time fine tuning each skill level so that the wad is able to reach a wide array of players.

[bofu]

12 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

I might do that, but I just do not like playing Doom on a lower difficulty setting, as it just makes me feel like I am missing out on the full experience.

 

Believe me, I would rather you play it on HMP than not at all. HMP is the "standard" experience. UV is made intentionally more difficult. And who knows? Maybe you'll get better over the course of playing it on HMP to the point that UV becomes not even much of a challenge, as when I first made MAP12, I was dying on UV pretty often, but now can generally clear it without saving or dying. I've had people tell me that they beat MAP20 (which, in my opinion, is one of the most difficult levels in the WAD) on UV blind without dying once, and I still have to save scum it on UV while knowing where all the enemies are by heart.

[Rudolph]

Thanks for the encouragement, but after trying MAP14 on HMP, I still find myself struggling with the slaughterfest areas, notably in the room with the blue key door and the final arena. I would not mind it as much if this was the last map, but the fact that this is only MAP14 is quite discouraging. :S

Edited April 3, 2023 by Rudolph

[T-117]

I would say Bofu has hit a sweet spot in terms of the difficulty.  Certain fights are definitely on the challenging side and I have to try them multiple times before I pass them.  But that being said, it is impossible to please everyone in terms of difficulty.  You can have one person say a fight is too difficult and then another say the same fight is too easy.  Sometimes it's in how the players approach the fight and sometimes it's general skill.  Don't let the difficulty discourage you.  Doom is meant to be fun after all.

[bofu]

Reuploaded to fix a bug in MAP08 that was only noticeable in Doom Retro - a whole wall was marked as 2-sided, whoops. It's been like that since the beginning! It just caused visual issues.

 

15 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Thanks for the encouragement, but after trying MAP14 on HMP, I still find myself struggling with the slaughterfest areas, notably in the room with the blue key door and the final arena. I would not mind it as much if this was the last map, but the fact that this is only MAP14 is quite discouraging. :S

 

HNTR and ITYTD might be good options, too. But ultimately, you shouldn't try to play it if it's too frustrating. I die a lot when I playtest these maps, sometimes so much so that I get frustrated with myself, but if I start getting too frustrated, I'll just switch to something else for a while.

[Rudolph]

Yeah. I just feel bad for you, as I wanted to be helpful and provide feedback like you requested. :S

[bofu]

Just a quick progress update that MAP21 is done, and MAP22 has started construction. I'm also working on potential new alert sounds for the Vanguard, but I'm having trouble finding one that I really like. Heavily processing and splicing the normal zombie sounds doesn't seem to sound any different in Doom's audio engine than the original sounds (maybe a bit deeper or more crackly), and a lot of other sounds I'm seeing are too short and unnoticeable.

[bofu]

Surprise update time! MAP21, MAP22, and MAP23 are done and dusted, and the download link has been updated to include them.

 

 

Some additional changes here:

 

Spoiler

• MAP01: Made some visual improvements.
• MAP02: Made some visual improvements, fixed some slime trails, and fixed some incorrect sector heights.
• MAP05: Fixed some visual errors.
• MAP07-12: Added some enemies; the Former Human Vanguard now appears earlier and slightly more often.
• MAP14: Made some visual improvements.
• MAP32: Made some fixes to the music.
• MISC: Former Human Vanguard now has a different wakeup sound.

 

[Rudolph]

Time to suffer some more. :P

[bofu]

17 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

Time to suffer some more. :P

ITYTD is valid! I actually had a good bit of fun playing these later levels on it, as I felt it brought the difficulty down to about Doom 2-on-HMP-or-UV level depending on the situation.

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, bofu said:

ITYTD is valid! I actually had a good bit of fun playing these later levels on it, as I felt it brought the difficulty down to about Doom 2-on-HMP-or-UV level depending on the situation.

Mapsets like yours definitely highlight the need for a railgun-type weapon in Classic Doom. :P

[kalensar]

6 hours ago, bofu said:

ITYTD is valid! I actually had a good bit of fun playing these later levels on it, as I felt it brought the difficulty down to about Doom 2-on-HMP-or-UV level depending on the situation.

Agreed. Theres no shame for playing on easy in these modern map sets due to that Doom has 30 years of gameplay evolution. I always try HMP out of habit but modern HMP is pretty much old school UV these days.

[bofu]

Just a quick status update: MAP24 and MAP25 are done, and MAP26 is nearing completion. I still need to make MIDIs for them, but I'm hoping to have another "release" by the end of the month.

 

Average monster count in these maps is in the 300-500 range, but those monsters are used in very tricky ways at times.

[bofu]

Another update! MAP26 is done and has been playtested, and I'm just getting the MIDIs finalized for MAP24 and MAP26. Some of the other changes I'm making to the WAD are:

• Adding/refining some details in the earlier maps.
• Adding multiplayer-only enemies to all maps.
• Fixing some minor cheese.

In addition, I just finished up some major projects that were keeping me from dedicating more time to completing the megawad. As such, at the current rate of development, I intend to have a full release in November, pending playtester feedback.

[Rudolph]

8 hours ago, bofu said:

Fixing some minor cheese.

What does that mean?

[bofu]

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

What does that mean?

 

A few playtesters (and me) found some ways to make certain tricky fights (not the big ones like at the end of MAP14, but some of the ambushes) trivial by hiding in certain areas that weren't closed off and making the monsters come to them. Not a lot of spots, but a few. Thus, the players could "cheese" the fight. I've put in a few simple fixes to prevent the most egregious ones without making the fight any harder for anyone else.

[WSADKO]

fun wad, salty author

[bofu]

1 hour ago, WSADKO said:

fun wad, salty author

Spoiler

 Don't worry, I'm over it, was having a bad day and took it out on you!

I'm grateful for the compliment!

[bofu]

A few pieces of news:

 

• Complete through MAP26, MAP27 is about 70% done, but MIDIs are proving to be a little bit of a pain for me right now due to some post-COVID brainfog.
• ZioMcCall has added support for the Vanguard and Diabolus (aka Summoner) enemies to Brutal Doom via his Brutal Doom addon, located here.

[bofu]

Sorry for the bump. I'm in the home stretch here, with only a few levels to go, but I wanted to ask a question for the people still following this project.

 

I'm considering making MBF21 mandatory, which would make this no longer work with Crispy Doom, which I've been working hard to make sure works with this mod for a while now. There are a couple benefits to this:

 

• Can fine-tune the Vanguard/Summoner enemies' attacks
• Will be able to use UMAPINFO (and potentially add one more map that I was playing around with as a super secret level or something)
• The sky's the limit with the last map in terms of what I can accomplish
• Still would be supported by GZDoom, DSDA, Woof, Doom Retro, etc.

Drawbacks: loss of Crispy Doom and PrBoom+ support (this WAD technically works in any PrBoom+ complevel that has MBF support), makes the vanilla map format kinda arbitrary and no longer necessary

 

Any thoughts on this? I'm asking around a few other places.

[taviow]

Personally think switching would be OK. If it allows this project to reach its full potential, considering you seem to have a ton of ideas on what to do with it, then it sounds like the upgrade to MBF21 is earned, plus it sounds a bit like you kinda wanna do it. So you should.

[Firedust]

I reckon it would speed up the process and allow you to play around with your ideas more, giving you more freedoom, so go for it!