What do you think is the worst Enemy in Doom II?

[AwesomeGuy05]

Personally, I think it's the cyberdemon.

 

But what do you think is the worst enemy?

[RHhe82]

Depends on what you mean by ”worst”, but from a mapper’s point of view, I really hate the joke enemies such as SS Soldiers and Commander Keen. I mean, in their original context they’re fine, but re-usability borders on zero in my opinion. Also, Icon of Sin (either the concept or Romero’s head) is unusable to me, and I never jump from joy to see IoS-maps.

[pcorf]

Chaingunners. It is best to wipe their smiles as quickly as possible.

 

Other hitscanners like Shotgun Sergeants and Wolf SS's are just as annoying. Hammer those rockets into them.

Edited November 4, 2021 by pcorf

[BetelgeuseSupergiant]

SS soldiers. Useless enemy.

[xdude_gamer]

Revenants. They're literally so bad, my God. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have a tracking missile that leaves you running from it for an entire map.

[DevilMyEyes]

SS soldiers, definetly.

[Wad overdose]

The icon of sin because she only summons demons she has no other attacks and you can take down a couple of well-aimed shots from her by rocket launcher in brain

Edited November 4, 2021 by Wad overdose

[WARDUST]

55 minutes ago, xdude_gamer said:

Revenants. They're literally so bad, my God. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have a tracking missile that leaves you running from it for an entire map.

absolutely!

[TuomasGaming]

53 minutes ago, Wad overdose said:

The icon of sin because she only summons demons she has no other attacks and you can take down a couple of well-aimed shots from her by rocket launcher in brain

Isn't the IoS male?

 

Also, I think the worst enemy is the Pain Elemental. It has the word: "Pain" in the name, after all.

I don't really get why people are calling the SS bad, because it's "useless". Of course it's useless, it was only designed for the secret maps of DOOM 2.

[RHhe82]

10 minutes ago, TuomasGaming said:

Isn't the IoS male?

 

Also, I think the worst enemy is the Pain Elemental. It has the word: "Pain" in the name, after all.

I don't really get why people are calling the SS bad, because it's "useless". Of course it's useless, it was only designed for the secret maps of DOOM 2.

As I said, from mapper’s point of view SS Soldiers are useless, just a watered down version of Chaingunner. But for their original purpose they are ok.

 

If ”worst” enemy means ”which enemy poses greatest threat”, the answer will be quite different. 

[Wad overdose]

1 hour ago, TuomasGaming said:

Isn't the IoS male?

 

Also, I think the worst enemy is the Pain Elemental. It has the word: "Pain" in the name, after all.

I don't really get why people are calling the SS bad, because it's "useless". Of course it's useless, it was only designed for the secret maps of DOOM 2.

I think ios in doom 2 female

[spineapple tea]

14 minutes ago, Wad overdose said:

I think ios in doom 2 female

If the icon of sin is female but John Romero is the icon of sin, then what does that imply?

[Mayomancer]

42 minutes ago, Wad overdose said:

I think ios in doom 2 female

Not sure you could call that thing either.

 

But yeah, SS and keen are only good as replacement spots for custom enemies.

Icon of Sin can at least be used for some creative ways to end the maps. Stuff like bourgeois megawad map 30 is cool.

[DuckReconMajor]

Arachnotron hands (mechanical legs?) down.

Projectiles aren't fun to dodge, way too damn big and way too much health.

[Jacek Bourne]

Shotgunner. They are the enemy I use least. If they were to go I would be affected very marginally. If SS and Keens are counted then them. The IOS doesn’t count as it isn’t a monster.
 

Also, Revenants are the 2nd best designed enemy in doom behind the archvile with the cyberdemon coming in third.

[Rudolph]

I would say the Arch-Vile, but only because of its impossible-to-dodge attack.

 

In fact, even though I am not a big fan of Doom 2016, I am really glad that it got rid of hitscan enemies altogether. So much so that it made me realize how bullshit they were and now I wish there could be a way to get rid of them in Classic Doom as well!

Edited November 4, 2021 by Rudolph

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

The revenant. Bullshit RNG

[Sena]

If by worst you mean the weakest, then the imp, if you mean the one I hate having to deal with the most, probably lost souls. On an individual level, I can handle revenants and chaingunners and all the stuff everyone hates, it just so happens that mappers never choose to deploy them on an individual level, whereas having to kill one lost soul as it bounces around like a pinball every time I fire at it can really throw you off from trying to dodge all the other projectiles that are coming at you. And don't even get me started on when they infight with each other leading to them charging you from so high up you can't even see them.

[MFG38]

Gotta agree with the few on the Wolfenstein SS. It's just another hitscanner but thematically detached from the game.

 

48 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

I would say the Arch-Vile, but only because of its impossible-to-dodge attack.

 

It's only impossible to dodge if you're out in the open with no cover.

[Astronomical]

On 11/4/2021 at 3:46 AM, BetelgeuseSupergiant said:

SS soldiers. Useless enemy.

I dissagree, before I knew how to use dehacked and how to edit wads with slade I still liked them as an intermediate between Chaingunners and Zombiemen/Shotgunners.  With a new code of paint and with a set of sounds to make them fall in line with standard enemies, they fit in very well as a weaker alternative to the chaingunner.  

 

As for my least favorite enemy it depends on the perspective.  I hate the Barron from primarally a designer perspective as he is just a hell knight that needs more Ammo to put down, I really hate the Spiderdemon as it's a hitscanner with too much health to justify It being a hitscanner.  As well as lost souls having too much health

 

From a design persective having access to dehacked makes most of these problems go away, Eviternity nerfed lost souls and I think 45 HP lost souls should be standard.  Valiant got rid of the Spiderdemon's spash dammage immunity.  We can replace the Barron like in eviternity or struggle.

 

Moral of the story, be the change you want to see in the world and nerf the lost soul.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Astronomical

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

7 minutes ago, Plank_Guy_89 said:

  I hate the Barron from primarally a designer perspective as he is just a hell knight that needs more Ammo to put down

You have to remember that the Baron already was in Doom 1, before the Hell knight was introduced into the game, so in reality, the Hell knight is just a baron with less health.

[Gibbon]

3 hours ago, Spineapple tea said:

If the icon of sin is female but John Romero is the icon of sin, then what does that imply?

Well at the end the text has 'him'.  So unless the IOS identifies as male? :D

[Firebert]

Icon of Sin is the clear correct answer. Not sure SS counts as he's just a reskin. All of the main roster monsters are pretty great, albeit with a few subjective issues like the arachnotron/mancubus oversized collision box or revenants shooting you after you punch them.

 

1 hour ago, Rudolph said:

I would say the Arch-Vile, but only because of its impossible-to-dodge attack. 

skill issue

Edited November 4, 2021 by Firebert

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

1 minute ago, Gibbon said:

Well at the end the text has 'him'.  So unless the IOS identifies as male? :D

Actually yes.

Quote

After you pump your rockets into HIS exposed brain

 

[Naarok0fkor]

The giant pink cyberdemon in Brutal Doom...

[Dusty_Rhodes]

Another Doom negativity thread? 

 

Fine, well what perspective constitutes "the worst"?

 

From the mappers' perspective:

All of the monsters are really well designed, things like shotgunners and imps can be chaff, while zombieman and chaingunners can be long range problems, revenants, arachnotrons, and mancubi are very dangerous, and can be used up close as beefy hard hitters or as snipers from a long distance, pain elementals, cacodemons, spider masterminds and cyberdemons can provide pressure and keep the player on their toes, SS troops can be used as a joke or be replaced with something new, with the wonders of Dehacked. Keens are actually useful using them can create a type of scripting, in a similar way to E4M6 or Map07. But Keens can be used in any map. Oh and archviles are just perfect. 

 

From the perspective of a player's frustration: chaingunners and revenants are ludicrously annoying and difficult in large group or point blank range. Pain Elementals and cyberdemons are just the worst, especially at range. 

 

I don't know, I think Doom 2 is such a perfect balance of weapons, powerups, and monsters, I wouldn't change a thing. Well. I might've added MBF dogs, but otherwise it's just perfect. We wouldn't have such a wonderful modding and mapping community without it, I think. All the cool Skulltag and EDGE items and monsters might not have been thought of without how much Doom 2 expanded on the experience. 

[BGreener]

I like RHhe's take on what the "worst" means, I otherwise can't choose. The only times I'll find enemies irritating is if they're utilized in poor ways, like getting in a situation where I'm fighting an archvile in the middle of a field.

[Maribo]

Taking "worst" to mean least favorite... Spectres, lol. At best, they serve as a fuzzy Pinky. At worst, they serve as an invisible wall. It's not like they're especially difficult or interesting to deal with either, from both a casual and speedrunning standpoint they're just not anything special.

 

And to counter the negativity, the "best", meaning my most favorite, is the Archvile. Dealing with them is always a fun experience, barring silly cruelty/troll/whatever design you'd call stuff like dumping you with four of them in an open area with no line-of-sight blockers. They add a well-needed sense of urgency in lots of places, and man... Archvile jumps are some of the most satisfying tech in the entire game.

[ReaperAA]

Commander Keens are easily the most useless enemy as they are both tonally out of place and useless (apart from opening doors). SS Solders are also out of place, but they can be useful with a skin change.

 

But then again, both of those monsters were never really meant to be used beyond the easter egg secret maps of Doom 2. The actual worst monsters are spectres and barons. Spectre are just pinkies, but a bit more annoying because they are invisible. And barons feel redundant in Doom 2 after hell knights are added. Almost anything a baron can do, 2 hell knights can do better.

 

On the other hand, Revenants and Archviles are the two best monsters in Doom 2. Former is because it is so versatile as an enemy (glass cannon nature, fast, takes less space, homing attack that requires more than just circlestrafing). And archviles due to being such a unique enemy. Archies can be used as monster healers, turrets, create oh-sh*t urgency moments, and also for vile jumps.

 

 

[Rudolph]

1 hour ago, Firebert said:

skill issue

Oh? Then tell me how I am supposed to dodge the Arch-Vile's attack.

 

And no, taking cover behind a wall or a pillar is not what I mean by "dodging".